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Thread: Glacier Harness

  1. #1
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    Post Glacier Harness

    Trying to lighten up my glacier harness….this is the one I’ve been dragging around for the last 3 seasons..



    And unfortunately I have had to use every bit of gear on it in anger…not my fault I come across idiots who have fallen down holes!…I have reverted to my lighter harness to begin with….not so comfy to hang in but I’m skiing not big wall climbing…and removed a few biners/gone lightweight on others….



    Am I cutting too fine or should I just pack a belay device and not much else like a lot of guys on the hill….still haven’t found anything lighter that I’ll trust rope wise than 8mm 30m…and Ali crampons – I’m just not going there

  2. #2
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    I am carrying a few more biners and slings than you; like to have some extra stuff if I need to bury skis or packs to make anchors etc. Also nice to be able to leave a rappel anchor behind and still have enough gear for the glacier. Sometimes I carry two screws; kinda depends on who I am with and what gear they have etc. Using the BD Alpine Bod; best skiing harness I've seen so far.

    8mm rando rope (Beal I think), 30 or 50 metres depending on routes. I am not overly obsessed with weight though, after all I'm often dragging around Big Daddies with 1018 binders and Alpine Trekkers etc. anyways.

  3. #3
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    I think it seems like you can't really cut out more stuff than you've already have and still stay safe. Skiing around with nothing more than a belay device will just only do it for rappelling and nothing else, I guess you'll appreciate some more gear when either you or one of your buddies is stuck deep down in a crevasse. Maybe you could leave the eight home and belay/rappel on a HMS knot (or whatever you call it) but that's as far as I'd go. A few extra slings would be nice to have as Telepath writes, they practically weigh nothing so that shouldn't be an issue.

    A thinner static rope would definitely lighten up the overall load and is super nice for rappelling but is not really recommended for glacier travel while walking tied in. But then again, how often do you actually do that?
    I like big bikes and I cannot lie. You other brothers can't deny

  4. #4
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    I wouldn't go with less than that either. Personally I carry more. Fortunately I have never had to use it in anger but when I practiced I realised I really didn't want to have any less gear.

    While we're on crevasse kit... Not that you suggest it but I just don't understand people who think they don't need pulleys to do a crevasse rescue. Have they ever seen the load on a pulley system create by friction from not using pulleys? Enough to pull out most anchors. A friend up here reckoned he had the most bomber anchor ever to practice with (a fuck off big rock) - when he loaded it all he bent one of his carabiners permanently open. I was surprised his rope hadn't broken first personally.

    I also never carry Tiblocs. I don't understand them either. Any consoldation in the pulley that loads the rope slightly (if the rope were to dig into a crack in the ice on the lip suddenly or the rescuee were to fall a little whilst trying to climb over the lip) is likely to make those little teeth cut the rope. Sure they're faster and simpler. But prussiks work pretty well it you know what you're doing. Yeah, they might wet and freeze - but not in the time it takes to do a crevasse rescue.

    I also have a Bod. Swear by it. Mine has the nice fleece belt padding. I guess I am more of a pansy than Telepath.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Mulletizer
    While we're on crevasse kit... Not that you suggest it but I just don't understand people who think they don't need pulleys to do a crevasse rescue
    Aggree on that one. I carry some of the lightest Petzt ones, the orange plastic wheely thing on a lightweight alu casing. Even lighter than that are the orange pulley wheels sold separately, but they are a bitch to work with I think. If I were in Idris shoes (or those of his buddies...) I would make sure he got himself at least one small pulley, preferably two to be able to set up a good pulley system yourself.

    Actually I thought it was two small pulleys on Idris' screw biners, but upon closer look it's two DMM (ropeman?) ropecleats/whatevers. Those do work nice imo, better than the tiblocs (that I however have been using quite a bit myself with decent success; though without care they do eat rope as Mulletizer says).

    And yep; Glisseur has definately got a point on the static rope thing, I seldom walk up a glacier while tied in. I got myself a longer rando rope (50m) much on his advice (La Grave has got some long-ass rappels) but due to injuries I unfortunately didn't get to play with it as much as I wanted. And the bulky fukkr sure does take a decent amount of space and add weight. Looking at some static 7mm rescue ropes I have been considering getting one of those too to use on days where I will only be rapelling off stuff etc. There are a few good brakes out now that handle such narrow ropes; especially when rappelling off double ropes (almost always).

  6. #6
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    I think you're pretty much lightweight already.

    You may want to save weight in the harness itself. Cassin has a harness that weighs even less than the Petzl Pandion, I think its name is the Eolo, it's even padded but real expensive. $ for weight (and if you need more than 2 gear loops) the BD Alpine Bod doesn't seem like you can beat it though, but it's 150 g more than the Eolo. I'm still trying to decide what to put my money into myself (I've got an older Alpine Bod on loan for now).

    The gear sounds about right, and I'd add a pulley to it. Not one of those plastic ones, more something like a Petzl Mini which will mind a prusik, though check it with a small rope diameter first. The Mini is also nice in that the pulley is on sealed ball bearings, which is the main reason I got that one.

    You could rappel and belay off a Muenter hitch, if you don't want to carry the eight. That will definitely work well.

    I am sure I carry a bit more than you, especially roped up (so far just one trip) with all those prusiks (harness, foot, pack). But then I'm also one of those heavy skis + Trekkers guys.

    drC

  7. #7
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    Harness looks about as light as a BD Alpine Bod, and you seem to be ok otherwise. You probably could pare a few grams on lighter biners, but my best sugestion would be to get rid of the fig. 8. Those thing twist the rope like nothing else. Get an ATC. That would be my recomendation.

  8. #8
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    The Petzl Reversino belay/rappel device is made for smaller rope diameters (7.5 to 8.2 mm), is super lightweight and works flawlessly without twisting the rope. I've used the bigger sized Revorso for two seasons now but I'm definitely getting one of these any day now (gotta spend my end of the season savings you know ).



    Go for a harness like the Alpine Bod or something similar (non padded), get some fairly lightweight biners and ice screw, some Tiblocs or prussiks, some sort of pulley device and a dasiy chain or a sling. That's the minimum gear you actually need for skiing on a glacier, why nitpick with a few grams here and there? We're not competing in ski mountaineering here, are we? The main reason imo is to be able to rappel of some stuff and get yourself or your buddies out of a crevass in case of an accident.

    I've seen quite a lot of rando freaks around here and they go for a super light touring setup like Dynafit skis, boots and bindings, dress up in tight clothes (yikes!) but they still carry a lot more gear on their harnesses than that. Go lightweight where it's possible and get used to ski with the extra weight, it's not THAT heavy after all.
    I like big bikes and I cannot lie. You other brothers can't deny

  9. #9
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    While we're on crevasse kit... Not that you suggest it but I just don't understand people who think they don't need pulleys to do a crevasse rescue
    I personally haven't had a problem not using pulleys. But I've also never compared a pulley and non-pulley system side by side. Perhaps I'm missing out. All of my glacier travel has involved subsequent alpine routes though, so I'm usually roped into a 10mm rope that should be able to take that bit of extra tension.

  10. #10
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    cmor, it's not about the rope not being able to take the tension, it's about all the energy (your precious pulling energy) being lost in friction in the carabiners instead of pulleys. That's why I carry a Mini too, it's on sealed ball bearings; REI and CMI (?) pulleys are not.

    drC

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by Dr. Crash
    cmor, it's not about the rope not being able to take the tension, it's about all the energy (your precious pulling energy) being lost in friction in the carabiners instead of pulleys. That's why I carry a Mini too, it's on sealed ball bearings; REI and CMI (?) pulleys are not.

    drC
    Yeah, and the rope stretches as a result. This creates a huge store of energy in the rope, loading the anchors a lot more and potentially breaking the rope.

    Pulling an unconscious casualty out of a crevasse alone is a total bitch anyway, even with a decent pulley system (using wheels) with relatively little extra friction (from the snow, the crevasse lip, etc.)

  12. #12
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    And the wicked delayed response:

    Another quick trick in a pinch is to just double up the biners so the rope has a bigger diameter to run over.

  13. #13
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    Whoa, things must be getting a little crazy there in pennsylvania.

  14. #14
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    what do you guys think about the reversino vs atc xp on beal rando 8mm rope?

  15. #15
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    Here's a good compromise for a pulley:

    Petzl ULTRALEGERE - Ultra lightweight nylon pulley for emergency use

    slides onto a caribiner

    It's tiny, and wieghs ten grams!


  16. #16
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    don't know about the reversino, but the xp is nice. you can use the regular side for quick raps on 9mm and up or swap over to the high friction side for accessory cord (7mm) on down to some really thin shit. if you've ever tried to rap on a atc with acc cord you will appreciate this one.

  17. #17
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    using it on 8mm rando, so this is probably the way to go. cool, thanks.

  18. #18
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    I've been using the reverso for a few weeks now and I really like it. Raps and belays really nice, and has the added autoblock function(which I havent used yet). The sucker does get hot though, I noticed it more than I have on an ATC.

  19. #19
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    maybe try using some sort of spectra slings rather than the tubular webbing. I wouldn't completely replace the webbing with long spactra slings,but maybe one of them. I can't tell how long the webbing really is anyway.

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by Geoff
    Here's a good compromise for a pulley:

    Petzl ULTRALEGERE - Ultra lightweight nylon pulley for emergency use

    slides onto a caribiner

    It's tiny, and wieghs ten grams!
    I've yet to find a decent biner that doesn't weigh a ton that the ultralegere will actually rotate on.

  21. #21
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    Bump, good info here.

  22. #22
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    Alpine Bod killed my nuts - swapped it for Mrs Roo's DMM.

    I carry a Beal 50m rando rope
    Black Diamond ATC
    2 Petzl Swingcheek pulleys
    2 Petzl Tiblocs
    2 Prussik Loops
    1 Ice Screw
    1 Locking Carabiner
    1 Quick Draw
    2 Clip Biners
    1 Sling
    Salewa Speed Axe
    Salewa Crampons

    Hear what you're saying about the Tiblocs, but they come in so handy as a device that manages itself when you're working solo.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by powwrangler
    maybe try using some sort of spectra slings rather than the tubular webbing. I wouldn't completely replace the webbing with long spactra slings,but maybe one of them. I can't tell how long the webbing really is anyway.
    I would stay away from spectra slings- you can't tie water knots in it b/c the knot will slip- and you can't use it with an autoblock b/c of the low melting temp.
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  24. #24
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    Has anyone here ever tried the dmm revolver biners with the built-in pulleys for light self rescue work? If they were a little cheaper I might be tempted to try 'em out myself...

    http://www.mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/b...carabiners.htm
    Last edited by sfotex; 01-27-2006 at 10:18 PM.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj001f
    I've yet to find a decent biner that doesn't weigh a ton that the ultralegere will actually rotate on.
    2nd that. Petzl says use them with their (heavy) locking oval.

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