Anyone use a PLB?

[Jonathan S.]

SchralphMacchio, thanks for the info -- very helpful.

The McMurdo website doesn't say anything about an external antenna, any owners know if it's purely internal?

Check out this review with accompanying pics of deployed antenna:
http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=105
http://www.equipped.org/McMurdoNewFastFind.htm

[bio-smear]

I recently bought the ACR Sarlink for my personal flying and skiing adventures. $40 a year gets you the "I'm OK" message service, but it's only 1 SMS number and 1 email address at that service level. I used my own web hosting to set up email aliases for my family members' phones and email. It seems good. I'll report back after I'm rescued.

[SchralphMacchio]

Check out this review with accompanying pics of deployed antenna:
http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=105
http://www.equipped.org/McMurdoNewFastFind.htm

Damn Jonathan, I should have known you'd have links for PLB reviews. After all, you have or are aware of review pages for every type of electronic device being trekked out into the backcountry

[harpo-the-skier]

The McMurdo Fast Find has an external antenae, but once you deploy it you have to send it back to McMurdo to get it folded up again, so I have never actually pulled it out.

The FF is perfect is you want something small, light, and cheap that you can be sure works when the shit hits the fan. I don't remember entering my vital health info when I registered it, but I did enter the contact info of a handful of friends and family who would have that info and who SAR will contact to get more info before starting a SAR.

[GeezerSteve]

Doug Ritter has that badass stare thing goin' on.

Our group has two McMurdo Fast Find units, both registered (duh). We've never deployed either of them (and I hope like hell we never need to), and are thus unable to comment on performance.

[summit]

The McMurdo Fast Find has an external antenae, but once you deploy it you have to send it back to McMurdo to get it folded up again, so I have never actually pulled it out.

The FF is perfect is you want something small, light, and cheap that you can be sure works when the shit hits the fan. I don't remember entering my vital health info when I registered it, but I did enter the contact info of a handful of friends and family who would have that info and who SAR will contact to get more info before starting a SAR.

I rolled up the demo model's antenna at REI and put the top back on... why do you have to send it back in?

[GeezerSteve]

I seem to recall that McMurdo requires the FF unit to be sent back in after deployment for inspection and resetting, not because of the uncoiled antenna.

[Jonathan S.]

Is battery depletion also a concern after PLB deployment?

[Jonathan S.]

Damn Jonathan, I should have known you'd have links for PLB reviews.

Three friends and I were making a decision at about the same time last year, so I was looking into it a lot then. I had previously owned a first-generation ACR PLB, and then the first-generation Spot. The three friends had never owned a PLB or Spot.
Two of us went with the second-generation Spot, and two went with the McMurdo Fast Find. But this was before the ACR PLB came out with the new Okay fx -- although then again, a 2nd gen Spot + McM FF is about the same size, weight, and cost as the ACR PLB, so I doubt any of us would have chosen differently.

[SchralphMacchio]

I don't remember entering my vital health info when I registered it

I downloaded a hard copy of the registration form from NOAA, it has a section for "Additional Information." This could be used to list any medical conditions and any medical equipment that may assist SAR during evacuation.

then again, a 2nd gen Spot + McM FF is about the same size, weight, and cost as the ACR PLB

AND hardware cost!

SPOT II + FastFind 210 = $150 + $250 (REI prices)

ACR SARLink = $400

But the 50-GPS chip on the FastFind is really the top selling point to me. Acquire GPS sats + calculate accurate location faster than any other device.

[Sinecure]

I got some clarification from the folks at SPOT regarding the new delorme unit. First, it is scheduled to be available next month.

As for the question about who you can send texts to. You must pre-define all your contacts and distributions lists. You can't decide at the top of a mountain that you want to send a text to Jimmy at the office unless you've put Jimmy's email or phone number into the SPOT system before you left. But you can send any short txt message you want to anyone who is on your distribution list.

I also learned that if you haven't used your spot in a couple weeks, or you've traveled over 500 miles, or you've replaced your batteries, there can be a delay from when you turn the spot on, until it can send an OK (and presumably HELP or SOS) message. So if you are going to take your SPOT on a tour, be sure to turn it on and leave it with a clear view of the sky for at least 20 minutes just before you head out. That way it will take less time to acquire satellites when you need it to send a signal.

[snowranger]

I just dropped my subscription on my spot unit and am thinking about gettting a PLB and adding the I'm okay function.

Anyone have experience with this unit? It's sub $200 with GPS but seems a bit on the bulky side.

http://www.schoutenenterprises.com/e...ducts_id=37689

[harpo-the-skier]

I just dropped my subscription on my spot unit and am thinking about gettting a PLB and adding the I'm okay function.

Anyone have experience with this unit? It's sub $200 with GPS but seems a bit on the bulky side.

http://www.schoutenenterprises.com/e...ducts_id=37689

Look up the McMurdo, smaller lighter than the ACR.

How are you going to add the I'm Okay function. I thought spot was the only one that had that.

[Crampedon]

Originally Posted by samthaman
especially with talk of south America next summer

Who do you think is going to come rescue you down there?

Russell Crowe?

[snowranger]

You can subscribe to 406link.com for $39. When you do a sell test, the signal is also redirected to your email and/or cell phone. Any PLB with an external antenna and self-test should work. I like the fastfind, but it has a one-time use internal antenna, so no go there.

[SchralphMacchio]

^ AFAIK it's not so much the antenna that's one time use, but the battery & radio circuit. I believe McMurdo will refurbish a deployed PLB and resend back to you - not sure if it's for a fee or not.

[snowranger]

i think you should buy the acr unit and let me know how you like it. You get about 400 ok messages before impacting the battery

[SchralphMacchio]

I thought I would update this thread with some very interesting, and somewhat disturbing information. As a result of what I have found, I am somewhat considering switching from McMurdo FF210 to SPOT Messenger II.


I had a really interesting conversation with El Dorado County Sheriff's Office today. I only spoke to this one Sheriff's Office but find the results to be representative. The SAR coordinator at the Sheriff's Office informed me that he was very familiar with the SPOT technology but not so much with NOAA/SARSAT. He has had some pretty significant and successful rescues from the SPOT system based on information that SPOT gave to the SO over the phone. In one very recent case, the SPOT people told the SO that the missing party had diabetes so they dispatched a heli to the GPS location immediately and when they found him he was in diabetic shock. They were ready for that and saved his life.

When I asked him about NOAA/SARSAT he wasn't really sure about the system at all. I don't think they had been involved in an Air Force coordinated rescue in a while, and it wasn't clear what information they shared. He also said that they had a 121.5 MHz receiver (remember that the FF210 and Terrafix/SARLink deploy a 121.5 MHz homing signal in addition to the GPS information encoded in the 406 MHz signal) but it was very old and they haven't used it in the field anytime recently. They still had the equipment and were trained on it but they weren't very trustful of its capabilities and preferred the GPS information.

I looked into it some more, and with the 406 MHz SARSAT system the US Air Force Rescue Coordination Center (AFRCC) is the single federal agency charged with managing inland rescues within CONUS. (If your signal was detected offshore, the US Coast Guard would be the tasked agency.) The AFRCC would need to pull your NOAA registration file, forward to the regional AF office, who would then figure out what local agencies to coordinate with for the search and rescue, and transmit the necessary relevant information.


Here are my concerns.

1) According to this page (http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/units/afrcc/usnplbp/),

Under the U.S National PLB Distribution System (Currently under development) PLB alerts will be sent directly to the state agency responsible for missing/distress persons within each state.

During the transition to the automated system the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center will notify the responsible state agency via voice/fax to begin SAR response per our established legal state SAR agreements and Memorandum of Understanding. et).

So now you have a minimum of four agencies involved - NOAA/SARSAT, AFRCC, some unnamed state agency, and then local county SO. What is the timeliness and efficiency of this type of coordination, and is any information lost in the handoffs? For example, if my file is faxed from NOAA to AFRCC, then from AFRCC to a regional AF office, then from that regional AF office to some state agency, then from that state agency to the county agency ... well it's not hard to imagine an outdated fax number, or a fax sitting on a machine in one office while a dispatcher is in another office wondering what kind of units to dispatch etc ... That is a really big concern.

2) If information is lost in the fray - I am worried that it is my medical conditions of concern. Of all the info that is shared, I need the SO to know what they might be encountering so that they can deploy the proper units quickly.

3) Some of the satellites that pick up a 406 MHz - low-earth orbit (LEOSAR) - are not capable of receiving the GPS information encoded in the alert. Only the geostationary orbit (GEOSAR) satellites can receive this information. Read some more:
http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/satellites1.html
While the Globalstar network used by SPOT may be private infrastructure, it is certainly wholly capable of receiving GPS and text messaging information and provides clear coverage over the northern midlatitudes. I do not know the coverage compared to COSPAS-SARSAT but over the CONUS it seems like to support voice over satellite you would need some pretty dense coverage - more than would be needed to cover weather data that is the primary use of most of the satellites in the SARSAT system.


These concerns don't give me enough confidence to venture outside of cell service right now given my medical condition. It seems like if local SOs are going to be more experienced in dealing with a private vendor like SPOT than a bureaucratic network, then I should buy the product that gets the right information to the field SAR coordinators more quickly.

[XXX-er]

The field truck for the engineering co where I worked had the spot ,the boss can tell exactly where his truck and his crew are

I come in on time to work , the surveyor is nowhere to be found which isnt unsual ,I ask where is buddy ? The boss hits a few keys on his LT and sez on main street behind safeway ... the surveyor went home to get his work boots

[SchralphMacchio]

Here are my concerns.

1) According to this page (http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/units/afrcc/usnplbp/),


So now you have a minimum of four agencies involved - NOAA/SARSAT, AFRCC, some unnamed state agency, and then local county SO. What is the timeliness and efficiency of this type of coordination, and is any information lost in the handoffs? For example, if my file is faxed from NOAA to AFRCC, then from AFRCC to a regional AF office, then from that regional AF office to some state agency, then from that state agency to the county agency ... well it's not hard to imagine an outdated fax number, or a fax sitting on a machine in one office while a dispatcher is in another office wondering what kind of units to dispatch etc ... That is a really big concern.

2) If information is lost in the fray - I am worried that it is my medical conditions of concern. Of all the info that is shared, I need the SO to know what they might be encountering so that they can deploy the proper units quickly.

3) Some of the satellites that pick up a 406 MHz - low-earth orbit (LEOSAR) - are not capable of receiving the GPS information encoded in the alert. Only the geostationary orbit (GEOSAR) satellites can receive this information. Read some more:
http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/satellites1.html
While the Globalstar network used by SPOT may be private infrastructure, it is certainly wholly capable of receiving GPS and text messaging information and provides clear coverage over the northern midlatitudes. I do not know the coverage compared to COSPAS-SARSAT but over the CONUS it seems like to support voice over satellite you would need some pretty dense coverage - more than would be needed to cover weather data that is the primary use of most of the satellites in the SARSAT system.

I got more information about this.

1) In California, Cal EMA (Emergency Management Agency) receives the dispatch from AFRCC if using a 406 MHz PLB, AND from SPOT dispatch if using a SPOT. So the agency layers are the same in either rescue scenario. Cal EMA then contacts the local SAR authority depending on the GPS location of the distress signal. As far as local agency access to information, I'm not sure how the scenarios differ.

2) Again Cal EMA is essentially in charge of this. In one scenario they get the information from the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center, in the other scenario they get it from SPOT. In both cases the information is called over, not faxed over. I verified this with Cal EMA.

3) This seems to be dependent on where you are. With COSPAS-SARSAT, I have no idea if every NOAA geostrationary weather satellite has a 406 receiver or not. I know that the Russian COSPAS system and some number of NOAA LEO satellites will not have access to the GPS information in the signal. Since the Glabalstar system is designed for realtime comms then it seems like that one would be much faster. So SPOT maybe has a slight advantage in (3) in the northern midlatitudes, but maybe 406 MHz PLB has more redundancy internationally, especially closer to Antartica considering that Globalstar is centered around the northern midlatitudes and may have trouble in southern Chile or something.

[nickwm21]

Bump.

10 years later - what’s the consensus?

- Spot gen4
- spot x
- bivy stick
- somewear
- garmin Inreach mini
- garmin Inreach +
- acr resqlink

Use case would be to calm my wife’s nerves when I’m on long bike rides or ski tours... Ideally she could track me on her phone and we could communicate off grid...

Spot GenX is priced right but is it so shy on features that it’s pointless?

Bivy stick seems to have the right feature set and the lack of annual contract is appealing.


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[doebedoe]

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...POT?highlight=

A more recent thread. IMHO the consensus from every SAR person I've talked to is Garmin. More critically--something with two way communications. Usually for recreationalists it means an inReach mini. Plan is $12 a month -- two beers at your brewery for basic. Can swich month to month.

[nickwm21]

Thanks - I searched and missed that thread apparently...


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[kalisto]

If anyone's looking for one: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...astfind-PLB-50

[adrenalated]

Use case would be to calm my wife’s nerves when I’m on long bike rides or ski tours... Ideally she could track me on her phone and we could communicate off grid...

InReach Mini is the obvious winner here.