TR: Berthoud did not suck today (12/9/07)

[FrontRangeDrummer]

Here is the photo evidence:

FRD: green jacket
Kevo: red jacket

The stairway to heaven:


Kevo having fun on his first day touring:


The goods:










Mmmmm.... Powder!


Kevo wasn't used to my camera, so some of his shots are wierd.

Everything we skied seemed fairly stable. A couple of whomps on small rollovers, but no cracking or sliding.

A natural (I hope) release on a NE aspect:



Back in Boulder, the Flatirons doing thier best Patagonia iimpression:





One more week of school...

[jon turner]

Nice. Looks like fun.

[single]

Damn! Enjoy it!

[damn texan]

I am so glad I decided to study for my three finals tomorrow this weekened.

Tuesday?

[smitchell333]

Cool - I shoulda been there myself.

I love parties, but...

I hate hangovers.

[Kevo]

It was a good time up there today. Well worth getting up early for the 3rd day in a row. Great to ski with you Carl.

[RIGAFARI]

Cool shot of the flapjacks

[Alpine Dreams]

Looks really fun!

[slaymore_sessions]

Standard avy incident scenario:

20-something-year-old doods. Check.
New to touring and skiing apparently. Check.
Colorado. Check.
New snow. Check.
Avy danger rated High. Check.
Seeing and hearing activity everywhere. Check.

You are some lucky gapers.

[Kevo]

Standard avy incident scenario:

20-something-year-old doods. Check.
New to touring and skiing apparently. Check.
Colorado. Check.
New snow. Check.
Avy danger rated High. Check.
Seeing and hearing activity everywhere. Check.

You are some lucky gapers.

Standard Internet Idiot

-Unaware of patrol experience and avalanche certifications/backcountry experience of both parties accused? Check

-Unaware of aspect/slope angle being skied verses aspect/slope angle sliding? Check

-Unaware of how ridiculously serious I take skiing avi terrain? Check

-Unable to tell that we were skiing 25-30 degree trees on SW aspect in floral park?

-Unaware of current conditions that make SW aspect low angle trees the absolutely safest thing one could possibly ski out of bounds in Northern Colorado right now? Check

[FrontRangeDrummer]

Standard avy incident scenario:

20-something-year-old doods. Check.
New to touring and skiing apparently. Check.
Colorado. Check.
New snow. Check.
Avy danger rated High. Check.
Seeing and hearing activity everywhere. Check.

You are some lucky gapers.

Two skiers with avy training. Check.
Two experienced backcountry skiers. Check.
One experienced with ski touring, offering to help another with new gear. Check.
Knowing what to expect in the snowpack. Check.
Checking snowpack to confirm those assumptions. Check.
Skiing familiar terrain. Check.
Seeing avalanche activity on one aspect and skiing the opposite. Check.
Observing instabilities in snowpack, and deciding to stick to low angle, dense trees, out of the way of potential terrain traps of runout zones. Check.
Making the best out of a hazardous day in a safe, educated manner. Check.
Having someone with no knowledge of the situation make blind indictive judgements on the internet. Check.

EDIT: Kevo, you beat me by a minute.

[Cruiser]

Nice pics, FRD! BTW Slaymore can talk shit about your decision making as soon as he posts some stoke.

[slaymore_sessions]

You're right, My bad. These are clearly patrol turns.

[FrontRangeDrummer]

You're right, My bad. These are clearly patrol turns.

What percentage of the ski pictures that you take with a shutter-delay point-and-shoot capture your subject in top form? I'm serious... mine is probably about 20%.

[FrontRangeDrummer]

Slaymore~
Honestly though, do you have a lot of experince skiing Berthoud after a strom? Now that you know a little about us and the situation, what do you think we did wrong?

[damn texan]

10-15%.

Nice turns. I always feel pretty safe in floral. Well until you get going further south, but you were obviously not in that area.

[slaymore_sessions]

Slaymore~
Honestly though, do you have a lot of experince skiing Berthoud after a strom? Now that you know a little about us and the situation, what do you think we did wrong?

Honestly, I don't make a habit out of skiing Berthoud after a 30' storm when there is 10 inches of sugar lurking about on all aspects on the north side of the compass. The safe options just aren't that fun. But when I'm there during or after a storm I'm in something that is truly south facing and low angle, like the Pumphouse trees. The Floral trees are West-Northwest aspect and there was still at best a considerable danger there according to the CAIC and as is evident in the whoomphing you heard over there.

Avalanchemapping.org considers Floral Park avalanche prone. See the little map attached. This is not the place to be shooting from below rollers where you state that you heard whoomphing. There are several shots posted above of FRD that were at least 30 degrees on the rollers -- enough to put a real damper on your day. I also wouldn't even think of taking someone out, as FRD states, "on his first day touring" without a third person, when the danger is at best considerable, meaning that human triggered slides are probable.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't have ripped on you had you both not looked like such gapers. Your turns look terrible. You both are totally in the back seat. 10-15% of the time getting a good form shot from your delayed point-and-shoot should not be hard if you are ALWAYS in the front seat and ALWAYS in good form. Glad you guys are at least getting your feet wet and thinking about it right. Stay safe out there.

[FrontRangeDrummer]

A couple carifications:
The "whomping" I heard/felt was on small (~4') convex features, most likely snow covering a boulder. I don't like skiing down the backsides of boulders. Maybe the pictures are lying, but we didn't ski anything that steep.

Kevo has done an avi I course (so have I) and a fair amount of backcountry skiing; today was just his first day skinning on an AT setup.

You both are totally in the back seat.

Whatever. Maybe that's because I haven't had time to wax my skis recently or because the snow was so deep my "gaper" 90mm-underfoot skis couldn't keep me on top, or because it was harder carrying speed on the more mellow terrain we were skiing. If you ever decide to post some stoke on the board, maybe I'll critique your skiing technique.

The safe options just aren't that fun.

I certainly had fun. Kevo, did you?

If anyone want to critique anyone else's decision making from today, see a recent post (not the thread author's) in a different BP TR.

[Phill]

[Kevo]

Honestly, I don't make a habit out of skiing Berthoud after a 30' storm when there is 10 inches of sugar lurking about on all aspects on the north side of the compass. The safe options just aren't that fun. But when I'm there during or after a storm I'm in something that is truly south facing and low angle, like the Pumphouse trees. The Floral trees are West-Northwest aspect and there was still at best a considerable danger there according to the CAIC and as is evident in the whoomphing you heard over there.

Avalanchemapping.org considers Floral Park avalanche prone. See the little map attached. This is not the place to be shooting from below rollers where you state that you heard whoomphing. There are several shots posted above of FRD that were at least 30 degrees on the rollers -- enough to put a real damper on your day. I also wouldn't even think of taking someone out, as FRD states, "on his first day touring" without a third person, when the danger is at best considerable, meaning that human triggered slides are probable.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't have ripped on you had you both not looked like such gapers. Your turns look terrible. You both are totally in the back seat. 10-15% of the time getting a good form shot from your delayed point-and-shoot should not be hard if you are ALWAYS in the front seat and ALWAYS in good form. Glad you guys are at least getting your feet wet and thinking about it right. Stay safe out there.

First day touring does not mean first day backcountry or first day at Berthoud- it means first day on the new AT setup. I have several seasons of backcountry experience which up until this point has consisted of bootpack sufferfests, sled skiing, and sidecountry at various places in CO and WY. It just so happens that today was my first day on an AT setup, got it?

The photos take of FRD were on zoom as I standing out of the way of any potentail slide even if it did break loose from anchor to anchor (in the event that there was a pocket of consolidated slab not consistent with the faceted layer that was persisten in almost all aspects today) I was standing in the trees to the side of the run. The fall line above me consisted of trees too dense to ski a slope even less than what FRD was on. The only photo where I was downhill from FRD (#6) was on at best a 20-25 degree slope.

I won't get much into your bullshit about being backseat. Post some pictures of your self attempting to charge on a 15 or 25 degree slope in 3 feet of snow for everyone to analyze. I'm done responding to you. You made an unfounded claim, get over yourself.

Edit- In response to FRD- yes I had fun, and yes I am 100% confident that we were never in danger of causing a slide or of being caught in a slide triggered from above as we never traversed under a slide path.

[melvin]

wow, don't know which of the armchair experts to believe.



There are a race of little blighters
full of venom, full of spite
known to all who make or build
as 'youknowyouhaventdonethatright'
this strange species never make
nor build nor fix nor e'er create
their only purpose is to watch
the work of others and berate!

[byates1]

poor form shitting on someone's tr.

you have some semi-valid points, but you cannot pass judgement against someone you do not know. these guys were controlling thier angles it sounds like. woomphing is o.k if you are not pushing the angles.

just slamming someone who wants to contribute to the stoke of the season is out of line.

[neil_asheville]

You're right, My bad. These are clearly patrol turns.

Maybe Nati turns, Slaymore!

Looks like a great day to be in the BC...way to be safe out there.

[dn4989]

It was a good time up there today. Well worth getting up early for the 3rd day in a row. Great to ski with you Carl.

You poor thing! Having to get up early again....

[Blurred]

This shot is fucking $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.