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  1. #29901
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonMexico View Post
    Jesus dude. A 13 year old kid. That’s who might not know about that.
    Fuck you, I'm the first to shit on Vail, and I'm a dentist, but Taft was old enough and smart enough to know exactly what he was doing. It was a classic case of teen DUI. Seen it many times. Too bad his parents needed litigation to get a closure that they could never find personally knowing that their perfect child that they raised was just a prop of their own fantasies. They lost on all counts, and it should be right in the mirror on them. One of my best friends was on the jury, and it fucked him up more than the community. You can't live here and look that situation in the eye and not know exactly what went down.

    You want to close terrain down, of course you don't, but you are the first to bitch when someone goes into a closure and dies, knowing very well it's shut. Fuck that.

    It's a round of fuck ups and complacency. On all sides. It brought out the sick nature of the perfect child syndrome in parents in the valley, it brought out the sick cover up with VR and reporting. It brought out the very worst.

    If I get that beacon from DSM, it's going right to a high school student. That's why I gave him my name and address and asked to take it off his hands. I was at the academy this morning. Looking for candidates.

  2. #29902
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    Sep 2009
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    MST
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    575

    Colorado Weather Discussion Thread

    Wow - didnít mean to strike a nerve. I didnít know him and certainly wasnít advocating for the route his parents took with my comment. I also donít think itís fair to let their decision end up being reflected on him.

    All I know is that Iím not sure I would have been aware of that when I was 13 - nor do I think most kids that age would be. I didnít grow up in a resort town though, so maybe everybodyís knowledge of ski area policies is much better than mine would have been. Who knows. I just thought it was a little rough to take that tone regarding a fatal mistake made by a young kid, regardless of what transpired after.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    go upside down.

  3. #29903
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    You don't know. He did. He poached that line with full knowledge. No innocence there.

    I was growing weed in my windowsill and fucking at 13. That kid was skiing those lines almost 2 decades before I did in his life.

    Don't assume anything. He was a fuck up. A perfect little fuck up. Nice kid, but a fuck up.

    You are way out of your element. He was not a random 13 year old in a resort. That line was taught to him over a couple years of shenanigans.

    Do you think us locals would bother side stepping up for a couple hundred feet into upper prima cornice to get a couple turns? Hell no. One, you could just duck the rope, two, what's the point, there are so many places to get better ones. I know personally who invented that move. It's sad all around, but Taft was a cocky kid. You can't extrapolate from anything more than that.

    Stupidity, with results.

  4. #29904
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    Dec 2006
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    Agrestic
    Posts
    4,930
    Hey Makers is drunk and angry on the internet again.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  5. #29905
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    Jan 2004
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    the Low Sierra
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    12,478
    dood

    there are a lot of raw nerves out there


    and itís ok to ask questions

    even if people donít like them

  6. #29906
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    ❤️

  7. #29907
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~mikey b View Post
    ❤️
    Mike, do you need a hug? Because I just got home from trivia and am making a killer chicken paprikash.

    It just crushes me when people serve up BS on the internet which is de rigor, but I chose to clip that in places where I actually have facts.

  8. #29908
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    Sep 2009
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    Fair enough Makers. As Mikey said, there are clearly still some raw nerves and it wasnít my intention to stoke the flames. I had an immediate reaction to the calling out of that kid based on what I know of my own experiences and ski area knowledge at that age - which unfortunately didnít involve either windowsill weed or skiing Vail regularly.

    [insert Homer Simpson backing into bush gif here]
    go upside down.

  9. #29909
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    Mike, do you need a hug? Because I just got home from trivia and am making a killer chicken paprikash.

    It just crushes me when people serve up BS on the internet which is de rigor, but I chose to clip that in places where I actually have facts.
    no man Iím good

    seems like you need a hug


    some people donít know the situation as it was so they just respond with what they know now and itís ok

  10. #29910
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~mikey b View Post
    no man I’m good

    seems like you need a hug


    some people don’t know the situation as it was so they just respond with what they know now and it’s ok
    I agree, it's OK. It still is people claiming BS on the internet.

    I have no hard feelings for anyone in the situation. But, nip it at the bud on the falsity.

    Go ski some pow. And don't make judgements if you don't know what's going on. It's like avi 20-20 qb'ing at it's worst. And that was years ago.

    Simple stuff, no hard feelings. Knee jerks are usually not the best or most accurate reactions.

    And I'll totally take the hug, too long. I'm notorious for my hugs, even on big guys.

  11. #29911
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    ❤️

  12. #29912
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    Dec 2014
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    Colorado Front Range
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    Sorry I stirred up a hornet's nest.

    I stopped following the details of this case, but I found Beth's "safe" comment to be strange, both in light of this case, as well as what's printed on the back of lift tickets.

    You know this statement was boilerplate marketing speak, but maybe legal should have had an opportunity at a once-over.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  13. #29913
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    Oct 2003
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    9,300ft
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  14. #29914
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    Oct 2008
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    Colorado
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    Colorado Weather Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    People made assertions that Vail was responsible for the tragedy of that kid dying after sidestepping up and across into closed avy terrain.

    I called BS

    Then Makers came in with the sledgehammer of truth and shut the morons down.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  15. #29915
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    Jan 2010
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    In the swamp
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    7,024

    Colorado Weather Discussion Thread

    So, um, warm then looks like another big storm for the holiday.

  16. #29916
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    Quote Originally Posted by The SnowShow View Post
    So, um, warm then looks like another big storm for the holiday.
    Hopefully it stalls and hits Tuesday.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  17. #29917
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    Mar 2010
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    Great 4 days with no wind Sun-Wed at breck/loveland, very rare it lasts for that long. Riding chair 9 on Sunday with it being calm on top was surreal but does happen occasionally. Came back today though, perfect timing to smooth out the alpine like usual.

  18. #29918
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    Denver
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    You don't know. He did. He poached that line with full knowledge. No innocence there.

    I was growing weed in my windowsill and fucking at 13. That kid was skiing those lines almost 2 decades before I did in his life.

    Don't assume anything. He was a fuck up. A perfect little fuck up. Nice kid, but a fuck up.

    You are way out of your element. He was not a random 13 year old in a resort. That line was taught to him over a couple years of shenanigans.

    Do you think us locals would bother side stepping up for a couple hundred feet into upper prima cornice to get a couple turns? Hell no. One, you could just duck the rope, two, what's the point, there are so many places to get better ones. I know personally who invented that move. It's sad all around, but Taft was a cocky kid. You can't extrapolate from anything more than that.

    Stupidity, with results.
    Give it a rest. Smart or not, he was a teenager and the part of his brain that would have allowed him to effectively assess risk was not fully developed yet. I am not arguing that he didn't know it was wrong, but I bet he figured the worst thing that could go wrong was that he would lose his pass for a couple of weeks. I don't think that he considered the fact that his decision would be a fatal mistake. I guarantee that he wouldn't have gone there if his brain allowed him to think through the possibility of the outcome that ensued.

  19. #29919
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    Nov 2002
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    I don't think that he considered the fact that his decision would be a fatal mistake. I guarantee that he wouldn't have gone there if his brain allowed him to think through the possibility of the outcome that ensued.
    That probably describes the thought process in many avalanche incidents. Ski areas can and do change from fairly benign amusement parks to pretty serious mountain environments based on conditions. It is part of what makes them awesome. The ski areas have a hard job in that they don't want to unnecessarily scare people yet they are in charge of operating a pretty dangerous business. Talk to any pro-patrols that has been around a bit and you'll be surprised that people don't die every day.

  20. #29920
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiracer88_00 View Post
    Give it a rest. Smart or not, he was a teenager and the part of his brain that would have allowed him to effectively assess risk was not fully developed yet. I am not arguing that he didn't know it was wrong, but I bet he figured the worst thing that could go wrong was that he would lose his pass for a couple of weeks. I don't think that he considered the fact that his decision would be a fatal mistake. I guarantee that he wouldn't have gone there if his brain allowed him to think through the possibility of the outcome that ensued.
    That was my thought as well, that a teenage brain may not be capable of proper risk assessment. Even so, that doesn't mean that the ski resort was at fault, or that ski resorts (or any other place that has risk) has to cater to the risk assessment capability of a 13 year old. That's why parents have to sign release forms for kids, so that a responsible adult agrees to accept the risks on behalf of their children.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  21. #29921
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    Feb 2005
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    I am so sick of stupid parents excusing their child's behavior on brain development time scales. Hell, I even heard someone recently say as an excuse that her 22 year old hasn't fully developed his brain function.

    Well, I graduated college before 21, and I can assure you that my brain was functioning as good as it ever was going to get. Parenting maybe? Just a rusted old thought.

    And to be completely a dick, Taft probably saved at least 10 kids by his decision over the long run. I hadn't seen prolific avi awareness in the schools until afterwards. Now it's commonplace.

  22. #29922
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    Jan 2009
    Location
    Aspen
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    Just had a killer away game at Steamboat, Buff Pass yesterday and resort this morning. I kept hearing how bad it has gotten due to IKON but obviously not during the week, I skied untracked blower all morning and couldn't believe how empty the place was. Relatively mellow terrain but when the snow is that good it doesn't matter.

  23. #29923
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    Aug 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    I am so sick of myself.

    Seriously, settle down. You're gonna be OK and everything's alright!

  24. #29924
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    Nov 2002
    Posts
    6,169
    If you ever wondered WTF people are talking about when they say "Scary Moderate" here it is for ya. It will be another weekend meadow skipping, pow surfing, XC skiing, family skiing and groomer skiing. Welcome to winter in Colorado!

    Summary
    You can trigger very large, very dangerous avalanches that break near the ground. These avalanches are very difficult to predict and you will not see any warning signs of instability before this type of avalanche breaks. Multiple riders can travel on a slope before someone hits the wrong spot and the entire season's snowpack comes down. The only way to guarantee that you will not trigger one of these monster avalanches is to avoid steep north through east to south-facing slopes. You can always reduce your risk by choosing slopes less than about 30 degrees in steepness without steep overhead terrain.

  25. #29925
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    Jan 2008
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    tree OH TREE!!!!!
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    3,290
    ^^^^

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