Toes still numb...

[milkman]

Skied last Sat in -17c temps at Whistler. Was stupid and chose that day to break in new boots. Feet went numb after about an hour, but I kept skiing for another 3. Big toes are still numb 4 days later, but color is normal. This ever happen to anyone else? Took my boots in to get my toes blown out a little, and get a bit more room in the instep. Won't be skiing for another few weeks. Should I see my doc, or will feeling gradually come back?

[Vitamin I]

...Big toes are still numb 4 days later, but color is normal...

I got nasty frostnip that day, did some web research, and everything healed fine. (see http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103753 )

I am not a doctor, but I'll chime in anyway. You said "still numb", but have you noticed any progress (gradual increased sensation) over those 4 days? If no progress at all, I'd say wait a few more days then go to the doctor. But if you notice even slight gradual progress, then I say try to heal without a doctor.

If color is normal, and no peeling dead skin by now, then I'd guess that you don't have dead tissue from any frostbite/freezing (good), and that you instead have numbness due primarily to that low blood-flow event (not so good). This can happen without cold (e.g. fall asleep on your arm, which can cut off circulation, then wake up and your arm feels kind of "dead" for a month).

If you skip the doctor, make a real effort to be nice to your toes while they heal. Promote blood circulation down there (keep them warm for blood flow, don't put them in tight boots/shoes for a while, a little self-massage and hot baths wouldn't hurt, some daily aspirin might thin blood and help). Aloe lotion might help if you have some surface skin damage in addition to the deeper numbness. If you gotta ski before they fully recover, unbuckle boots for every lift ride, and if toes get cold or numb, you just gotta have discipline to go into the lodge and rub them/warm them up before you go out again. After they are fully healed, you don't have to be so disciplined anymore (just don't ski 3hrs with 100% numb toes again).

.

[Beatdown]

Glad to see you got the steps right.

Post on TGR first, then go see a doctor.

My feet were freezing that day too, but loosened the buckles a bit and they were ok.

++++++++++ TOE VIBES D00D! +++++++++++

[milkman]

Thanks. Still no change in colour and feeling is starting to come back a tiny bit.....I did loosen my buckes after every run, but I have poor toe circulation at the best of times. That coupled with a performance fit in my boots = numb feet a lot of the time. This is the first time I've experienced this though....If there's no noticeable improvement by next week, I'll see my doc... Might also trade out my stock liners for some Intuitions.

[coolstine]

Two years ago, with 90 days or so in my alpine boots in jackson, the tips of my big toes were numb / had dull sensation until june/july. although it's probably not healthy, the sensation eventually came back and is normal.

[Dug]

Happened to me. Feeling comes back after a while (several months in my case) depending on how bad the nerve was damaged.

You'll be fine.

[timstich]

Make that three. I had numbness after a hike up Hoosier Pass last Winter and the toes still felt that way for months as well. As with you, there was no change in the color of the skin.

[pubes]

Hit link and download pdf. Has diagram of nerves and may better help pin point exact location of pinched or damaged nerve or nerves

http://pn.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/5/3/178

[Arno]

it's a fact of life for me - nerve damage caused by excess pressure on the balls of my feet caused by short/inflexible calf muscles. feeling usually comes back not very long before the new ski season starts

[milkman]

Thanks for the info guys. Never had this problem before. Just went to a smaller boot and had a sharp pressure point from the tounge on my instep....I'm thinking this was the cause. This is the first time I've had a conventional liner in years and now I remember why I went to a wrap liner in the first place...I have an appointment with Intuition at their warehouse tonight....

[lionelhutz]

It's time for people to learn.
Vapor Barrier Socks - aka plastic grocery bags!
After never being able to keep my feet warm I adopted this mountaineering technique and my feet are never cold anymore.
The plastic keeps the moisure in preventing evaporation and associated cooling. So long as you let your feet completely dry out at night - and let the bags dry out you'll be fine

[encore]

This is happening to me now. My whole big toe is not numb, but it doesn't have all it's feeling at the point of the toe and just feels weird. Color behind the big toe nail is almost normal - a little darker than the other toe nails. They'll probably turn black and blue and and lose both of them...again! Temp was -11 degrees F on Saturday.

[powXer]

ME = not so lucking. temps were at about +2 F saturday in Eagle County...1st day in new boots following a season of bruising/nerve damage to big toes last year.

4 hours outside, 2 inside w/ boots still on. removed them to find purple tips, rock-hard to the touch and no feeling at all.

last night, blood blister forms around the entire tip of big toe. Walking is near impossible right now.

It's a waiting game for sure. ANYONE ever been at this stage w/ frostbite?? Prognosis/outlook??

Milkman- I'd say you'll be fine. I've had that problem as well. It's a whole different story for me now...

[milkman]

^ Sorry to hear. That's what I'm trying to avoid. My boots now have Intuitions and feel a LOT better. No more sharp instep pressure points...My big toes still lack full feeling in the very tips, but it's very slowly starting to come back....

[lionelhutz]

I'm telling you guys-
VAPOR barrier/plastic bags go so far in preventing this on your feet.
It's not even funny.
I used to hvae the same problems- hell my feet would get cold and numb when I would go running in the winter- and now with plastic bags I'm all good.

[0BernhardFranz]

buds are up for your toes in that cold that is for sure ...

this helps

heated ski boots lange and heatable soles i got both
ebay fleece socks will provide you with very warm socks buy them large for circulation
keep boots big enough for to move toes and play with toes in ski lifts etc keep them moving whenever you can
open boots when you can let feet ciculate and rub them warm
plastic bags might be OK
external liners gaiters can increase foot temperature
don´t go if it is to cold
ginko and stuff that increases circulation in the exterior limbs like toes fingers like gingko helps

but if you pay no heed you can read under where your toes once were like dan mazur or messner that come mostly without toes now or even loose feet leg or life in infection

[skikat]

It's time for people to learn.
Vapor Barrier Socks - aka plastic grocery bags!
After never being able to keep my feet warm I adopted this mountaineering technique and my feet are never cold anymore.
The plastic keeps the moisure in preventing evaporation and associated cooling. So long as you let your feet completely dry out at night - and let the bags dry out you'll be fine

how does this work? do you really just use plastic grocery bags around your feet and stick them in your boot or do you need to buy special bags? I want to learn...

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

how does this work? do you really just use plastic grocery bags around your feet and stick them in your boot or do you need to buy special bags? I want to learn...

You can use plastic grocery bags or garbage bags you cut down to size or find some vapor barrier socks at an outdoor store. Just tape them up around your calf(below the boot cuff to avoid looking like a wierdo) or just let the pressure from the boot cinch them down. Like he said, climbers have been doing this for awhile. The only downside is your feet can start to feel kinda wet and greasy by the end of the day if you tend to sweat a lot. And on extended backcountry trips you have to be really sure to let your feet, socks, bags dry out or you can get trenchfoot, but that is not a real problem if you are day skiing at a resort and going home at night.

[skikat]

wow, trench foot... a little scary, but thanks for the info!

[Wunderkind]

I'm still numb 24 hours after spending 6 at Snowbird - wondering if there as been any updates to the collective knowledge on dealing with frozen toes. I don't think I'm in bad shape - skin is mostly normal but definitely swollen a bit on the big toe. I did a dumb thing and stuffed a heat pack into my already very tight boot late in the day and i think that cut off all circulation and didn't do much heating. I guess I'll try low dose asprin and a bit of massage to get things back to normal. Not going to shred today despite the great snow... it's pretty much a guaranteed refreeze with temps around -15 at the top.

Just tell me that I can keep my big toe and have it mostly useful by climbing season...

[JimLad]

Had this 2 years ago, at whistler as well. Tips of my toes were purple having taken my boots off, and the next hour while they warmed up was agony. They felt numb for about 6-8 weeks, and I've had no problems since

[The Dark Pope]

Plastic bags will be as effective as prayers to God if it's a pinched nerve that's causing the numbness.Go see a foot doctor and get a steroid shot in those puppies.I'm going through this now thanks to a combo of new boots and a day of standing around training rookie patrollers(one of whom is a foot doc-love how that worked out in my favor).

[skideeppow]

i was flying with wasatch powder birds on Jan 1st, between provo and heber. Snow was sick.
I have had heaters for 15 years and am just tired of dealing with them. They never work, are just a hassle.
I bought a pair of neoprene boot covers (muffs) for this trip.

My feet stayed warm for the first time in such cold weather (about 0 f and 20 MPH winds). There was no sun for the morning.

Anyway, i have always shunned these because you look like a clown when wearing them, but they are better than any boot heater i have ever worn.

[therudeness]

thanks for the info all, feeling better about my toes that are still numb 3 days after a tour in the chic chocs where i believe i experienced -50 C windchill (-30 C & honkin winds).

edit: also a numb fingertip. VT Hardware store mitts are tough, but maybe not suited for those temps