This was not a fat fingered trade on P&G, don't believe them. The crash was in full swing well before the 39.70 low tick on P&G. This was organic.
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This was not a fat fingered trade on P&G, don't believe them. The crash was in full swing well before the 39.70 low tick on P&G. This was organic.
And that explains why Accenture apparently went to $.01?Quote:
Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes
1.00 EUR = 1.26087 USDQuote:
Originally Posted by Toadman
Yes. This is what's called a "no-bid". When liquidity goes to nothing, those wanting to sell have no one to buy, and the market making algos will sell to anyone at any price to keep the market going. If there literally is no one, then the price will go to zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodstocksez
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes
Can be true. That's how MM's take themselves out of the market after hours.
How do you explain uptick literally minutes later?Quote:
Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes
Just got this im from a Barclays trader:
"Supposedly Citi had an error. They were supposed to sell $60mm worth of S&Ps .. they sold $60 BILLION by mistake. At one point today, the market was down 1400 points. the STock ACN traded at $0.01.."
Second time I've heard reference to a major Citi screw up.
I get that the EU is totally backwards right now, but downtick and subsequent (and almost simulatenous) uptick on PG doesnt make sense.
Explain to this finance jong. A bid that's not honored because deemed "not real" for some reason? To me, it looks like a glitch in the system somewhere, some way. If this is all real, then why the rapid bounce back to the levels just before the bottom fell out (edit - referring to the broader market, not just Accenture or P&G)?Quote:
Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes
What am I missing in this conversation? ACN closed at about $41 and dipped down to $35ish:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by woodstocksez
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=acn.Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
Better: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=ACN+Basic+Chart&t=1d.
"How do you explain uptick literally minutes later? "
A crash through lots of technical levels will trigger algos to buy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodstocksez
I take it your answer will be the same, considered with respect to the broader market?Quote:
Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes
Still, that doesn't say to me that that movement was "real;" rather, just that a glitch occurred which rapidly drove prices down, but was then countered by automated trading algorithms (and downward move maybe exacerbated by automated trading algorithms?).
Would the Citi trade be a result of system error or an accident that led to a bunch of the system errors/automated trades?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hong Jong Fuey
Faaack, I wonder if anyone got anywhere close to buying a shit load low. That is the craziest thing I have ever seen:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by woodstocksez
From a different trader at a hedge fund when asked about other names trading a pennies today:
"Yes the sell prgram swept certain stocks. 21 names traded at a penny bc the side of the electronic sell order was bigger than the market cap. Can't imagine how much this error cost someone. I would guess someone lost 500mn to a billion bucks in 10min."
Clerical.
President of the NYSE was just on saying that it was not a glitch, that there was a no-bid.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl20...5007100510.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes
??
A bunch of stocks had trades go through at $0.00. They are going to bust a bunch of trades tonight.
The hilarious thing is that the people saying "it was real" and the people saying "glitch!' are both eligible for the "Baghdad Bob" award.
What does bust a bunch of trades mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes
EDIT: Negate or cancel?
He was defending the specialist system.. I agree with him. Specialists rock.Quote:
Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes
Canceled to both parites. Credi-Debit accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
Unwind, cancel, negate, unexist. The question is what will level will the bust be set at?Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
Man, talk about a bunch of pissed off people. Can you say lawsuits?? One of the oddest things I have ever seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes
Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
No lawsuits.. When you trade you agree to binding arbitration.
How are they the same? A glitch (e.g., erroneous input on a Citibank trade) may trigger "real" responses (automated or not), but it's all still unintended and presumably will be unwound one way or another once the fact of the glitch is discovered. Saying it's real means that it's a result of intended trades and the response would be expected to be different, in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes
Or did I misunderstand the meaning of your comment?
It's clear that automated algo trading is vulnerable to cascade effect like this. The question is, was this faceplant kicked off by a decision made on fundamentals or by a flub? If a flub then Citi loses clients and looks like a real asshole. If a decision made on fundamentals, why didn't others on the street see this coming and/or what else are they seeing or not seeing.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodstocksez
Yes, I'm an outsider, but that seems clear to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum Pete
And, yes, that's my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum Pete
So DOW 12K tomorrow then. Buy!!!! BUY!!!!!!! BUY!!!!!!!!!!
$20 says SEC voids all those trades.
NASDAQ canceling all trades <= +/-60%.
don't fuck with goldman
12345678Quote:
(Reuters) - Stocks plunged 9 percent in the last two hours of trading on Thursday before clawing back some of the losses as a suspected trading glitch and fears of a new credit crunch in Europe threw markets into disarray.
The Dow suffered its biggest ever intraday point drop -- 998.5 points. The market's fall may have been exacerbated by an erroneous trades that showed some shares briefly fell to nearly zero.
The situation remained unclear long after the closing bell as the Nasdaq Stock Market and others said they would cancel multiple erroneous trades. Other exchanges scrambled to examine orders.
"We did not know what a stock was worth today, and that is a serious problem," Joe Saluzzi of Themis Trading in New Jersey told Reuters Insider.
Indexes recovered some of their losses heading into the close to end down about 3 percent, the biggest fall since April 2009. Equities erased much of their gains for the year.
The sell-off comes at a tense time for investors and Wall Street, with fraud charges against Goldman Sachs, fears of a wave of debt defaults in Europe and increasing clamor for financial regulation.
Volume soared to twice its daily average for this year and was at its highest since October 2008 when financial markets seized up after the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers.
Some traders around the world were shaken from their beds and told to start trading amid the plunge as investors sought to stem losses in the rapid sell-off.
The Dow Jones industrial average dropped 347.80 points, or 3.20 percent, to 10,520.32. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index fell 37.75 points, or 3.24 percent, to 1,128.15. The Nasdaq Composite Index lost 82.65 points, or 3.44 percent, to 2,319.64.
At 2:47 p.m. the selling peaked and indexes plummeted across the board with several falling to nearly zero. They included Boston Beer, Radian Group, Exelon Corp. and Centerpoint.
The CBOE Volatility Index, known as Wall Street's fear gauge, closed up more than 30 percent at its highest level since May 2009.
The sell-off was broad and deep with all 10 of the S&P 500 sectors falling from 2 percent to 4 percent. The financial sector index was the worst hit, tumbling 4.1 percent.
Selling hit major stocks including Bank of America,the biggest percentage loser on the Dow with a 7.1 percent drop to $16.28. All 30 components of the Dow closed lower.
Nasdaq and NYSE's ARCA trading unit said they will cancel trades executed between 2:40 p.m. and 3 p.m. where a stock price rose or fell more than 60 percent from the last trade in that security at 2:40 p.m.
Investors had been on edge throughout the trading day after the European Central Bank did not discuss the outright purchase of European sovereign debt as some had hoped they would to calm markets. The ECB gave verbal support to Greece's savings plan instead, disappointing some investors.
With markets seriously shaken and still fearful of Europe's mounting debt crisis, thoughts turned to Friday's release of U.S. non-farm payrolls for April by the Labor Department.
The report is one the most important on the economic calendar as investors try to judge the strength of the U.S. recovery.
Rick Campagna, portfolio manager at 300 North Capital LLC in Pasadena, said stocks may bounce off their lows but said the lift would likely be short-lived.
"You'll probably see some sort of bounce. I don't think it's going to be long lasting or all that strong, but that's probably what you'll see," he said. "I don't think the correction is over."
S&P 500 index futures were volatile and pointed to a nearly 1 percent drop at the open on Friday, falling 8.3 points three hours after the close.
About 19.13 billion shares traded on the New York Stock Exchange, the American Stock Exchange and Nasdaq. Last year's estimated daily average was 9.65 billion.
Decliners outnumbered advancers on the New York Stock Exchange by a ratio of more than 17 to 1, while on the Nasdaq, more than seven stocks fell for every one that rose.
What was interesting is QID (Ultrashort QQQQ) DROPPED to 6 or below from over 20 when the market tanked and the recovered quickly to 18ish.
Lots of wierd goings on.
P&G 5min chart
http://cdn.forexfactory.com/attachme...7&d=1273174408
pulled this off another site
http://cdn.forexfactory.com/attachme...7&d=1273178014
Alot of this stuff is going to be cancelled. How the hell can you have a short fund DROPPING at this time? Unless there was just massive liquidation in all asset classes.
Just goes to show the counterparty risk if everything falls apart. Even being short via an ETF or stock itself can fall apart if there is enough disruption. Have some gold coins JUST IN CASE imo.
People will feel poor again. There goes the "recovery"
coreshot-tourettes I had a good laugh about the guy who showed screenshots of his account for the premium puts. About 4 years ago Yukos showed a (now known to be ghost) sell order of a block of stock at $ 2 - this was when Yukos was still in favour and was trading at $ 111 or so. I bought as much Yukos as I had funds in an online account and showed a paper gain of many many seasons passes in the account.
The next day I got a very nice phone call from IB telling me the trade was cancelled. C'est la vie!
Regulate HF trading. Companies have value! NYSE Euronext stock is well positioned to handle regulated trading. NYSE symbol: NYX
Futures are steady.
I think this was more than a glitch. Somebody somewhere was testing a plan to see if it would work This certain person (or group of people) now know that they can actually manipulate the markets like they thought they could.
The question is....who the fuck are they?
You know what.. It really wasn't. Bad trades have been around forever! It's just the consequences were not as dire. We need a better matching system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevo
Everyone knows this same thing was going on right before Lehman blew, right?
So you are telling me that some guy can really type in a "b" instead of an "m" and he doesn't go over a pre-programmed limit which requires someone elses authorization? Or a big red box with saying: are you sure you want to do this?