You can be proud your past home was part of the melt-down.Quote:
Originally Posted by ass-to-mouth
How much do you think it'll go for at auction?
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You can be proud your past home was part of the melt-down.Quote:
Originally Posted by ass-to-mouth
How much do you think it'll go for at auction?
live in it as a big unit and then patch up the wall when its time to sell and get two for one.Quote:
Originally Posted by skier666
I know of five young couples that have closed on houses here in Victor in the last month, almost all of them moving over from JH. One guy got a house on the golf course at Teton Springs for $330K.
Bargains to be had...
Meltdown? What meltdown? 4matic's neighbor just sold his dumpy house for $30K over asking. The realtor's phone was ringing off the motherfucking hook! THEY CRUSHED IT!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by supermodel159
I have no idea. I'd like to think the bank(s) will get royally ass-fucked, but I'm sure they'll find a way to make back their money and turn a nice profit. The bloodsuckers always come out on top.Quote:
How much do you think it'll go for at auction?
Thanks for the opinions. We have a 2bdr/2ba and our next door neighbor is a 1brd/1ba plus den which would create a 3br/3ba plus den dream unit. Our kitchens backup to each other and the common wall which includes a gas fireplace mirrors ours exactly. The quick idea was to take out the wall and leave the fireplace so its like a 'fireplace pillar' and create one large kitchen. The place is super modern with concrete floors, so an open floorplan would be quite nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Gotz
Its a 20 unit building but if we combine our units, it would be the largest. The HOA is great and most of the other owners are extremely friendly to each other, so I don't see huge opposition. Ideally, I would want one loan for the whole thing, one HOA payment, and one property tax bill. Of course, the cost of blowing out the wall, and creating one nice large kitchen, may be a deterrent as well. We'd plan on staying for quite a while.
I have calls in with my agent, banks, and the original builder to discuss whether we should give up or go for it. :-)
I've got an idea, buy the place next door, open it all up except wall up the kitchen and bathroom. Call it a studio, and rent it out for $1000.Quote:
Originally Posted by skier666
On my own real-estate adventures....My original escrow close date was the August 17th, then it became the 20th, which quickly was bumped to the 27th...NOW, we are drafting another extension, as the seller and our lender are not agreeing on anything. The joys of buying a home in CA.
Anyone else have to give blood to get a mortgage?
Case Shiller generally uses 'the entire Bay Area' for the San Francisco clarification, so the numbers aren't very accurate.
From my research, most SF proper listings are selling at 2006 levels. There's extremely few properties selling above 07' sales prices. It's almost like people are being more realistic with their listing prices.
Just for example, a two bedroom condo in Pacific Heights in an ok building sold for $850k recently when the last sales price in 05' was $485K.
That's absurd!
What is? .....Quote:
Originally Posted by P_McPoser
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier666
Really 666? Is not going for it even an option?
Big City real estate prices, they blow my mind!Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
Another one....Pacific Heights -1bd/1ba
$291,000 (07/28/1998)
$520,000 (08/28/2009)
or in the same area - 3br/2ba (super old, needed work but in great location)
$482,000 (03/20/95)
$1,215,000 (08/20/09)
SEPTEMBER 10, 2009, 3:32 PM ET
Too Gloomy? Whitney Predicts 25% Home Price Plunge
Bloomberg News
U.S. home prices–which have already tumbled nearly a third from the 2006 peak–could plunge by another 25% as high unemployment levels continue, according to prominent banking analyst Meredith Whitney.
It’s a gloomy prediction that comes as the housing market is showing some signs of stability. Further price erosion would mean that more homeowners could find themselves owing more on their mortgage than their house is worth, a particularly tough position if there’s a job loss. Homeowners who are unemployed and underwater are often unable to sell their homes and forced to walk-away, adding more fuel to the foreclosure crisis. Still, it might be welcome news for potential buyers looking for a bargain.
“I think there is no doubt that home prices will go down dramatically from here, it’s just a question of when,” Ms. Whitney, known for accurately predicting troubles for Citigroup Inc., told CNBC Thursday. “…If you look at the drivers for unemployment, I don’t see that reversing very soon.”
Home prices have taken a beating since housing went bust, particularly in the once overheated bubble markets. Las Vegas, where rampant construction transformed large swaths of desert into neighborhoods, has plunged by more than half, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller index.
But the index’s latest results also showed modest improvement. Prices fell 14.9% in the second quarter when compared to a year earlier–better than the first quarter’s 19.1% fall. It was the first positive quarter-over-quarter comparison in three years. Denver and Dallas have even managed four consecutive months of positive returns.
While few think home values have reached a bottom, some consider the 25% figure a bit harsh.
Moody’s expects a drop of about 10% from current levels, and the declines will continue late into next year, says analyst Joseph Snider.
While S&P/Case-Shiller shies away from predictions, David Blitzer, chairman of the index committee, thinks Ms. Whitney’s is estimate is too negative. While prices may fall further, “a 25% decline from here sounds very steep, he said. “To say that we’re only half way through this sounds pessimistic.”
Finally, a SF condo update....
In contract to sell current place -11.31% decrease from original purchase price in Feb 07'. Oh well, could be worse....at least will still have positive equity.
But, also in contract to purchase a better place, brand new in Cow Hollow (pre-mls listing) for a reasonable discount. We initially had a formal offer to buy his (the builder) for a slight premium and then he'd buy ours for an extremely fair price, just to get us into his unit. But, a 3rd party jumped in to buy our place, so as an incentive he slashed his price to sweeten the deal.
Rates for jumbo loans are pretty good right now. Got quoted a 5/1 Interest Only ARM at 4.65% if you are of the risky type ....with a 10 year at 6%
I'm thinking of walking. I'm over 50% upside down. I have a $1,500 house payment on a 50 year old, 1000 sq ft, one bath house that needs some major upgrades. I could go rent a sweet house for $1,100-1,300. I want to move in 7-8 years when my kids are off to college/career and I doubt it's going to recover the 50% by then. Why should I stay?
Not that uncommon for folks to walk away. If you can suffer a dinged credit score, it may not be a poor financial decision.
http://www.latimes.com/classified/re...,2560658.story
apparently the cool kids buy the nicer, bigger house next door for half of what you owe on your current house (get the loan as an investment property) then stop making payments on the first one and let it go into foreclosure. That way it's an easy move and you already know the neighborhood :DQuote:
Originally Posted by GiBo
Sounds like you owe $250k on a $125k house? I'd walk.
Gotta love that anti-deficiency statute. Don't have those everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by GiBo
I know, I've had two very good finance guys (who I respect as people too) tell me it was the smart thing to do. Just seems wrong to me. But damn, I'm going to lose my ass! And for what? My varible will adjust in four years and the bank won't even discuss re-working the loan. I know it's just my upbringing that gets me all moral on this shit, but they don't seem to give a shit about my situation so why should I care about them?
I owe $225k on a house that would go for about 115-125k.
The above is what I would recommend doing if you have 25% down (due to a N/O/O purchase). If you turn the home back in to the lender under the present rules, a conventional lender will ban you for 4-7 years. FHA is 4 years and VA is 2 before you can get a new loan.Quote:
Originally Posted by khakis
A conventional lender wouldn't even answer a call for a decade, I'll bet. They're making it hard on anybody and everybody today, even if they have 25% down and a good job. If it wasn't for the FHA, the entire bottom of the market, which is pretty much the market, wouldn't even exist today. It's kind of amazing that they are still lending at 97% first loan and 125% HELOC, but, hey, they have you and your children to support the profligacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
Either way, chances are good that your house may never see the mortgage amount for 20 years. The only way it will shoot back up is if option ARMs were available with just a signature or two down in some office space in the strip mall. That ain't happening for a very long time. So, yeah, walk. Save your money for the next house in maybe 5-7 years, if the government is still handing out such a sweet deal, although chances are good that the interest rate will never be as low as this in your working lifetime. Trust me, in 5 or 6 years, everybody's credit will be fucked, so you won't be an outcast. If they have money to lend, they'll find you.
Do pictures of wrecked McMansions give you a boner, Benny? You are a sick fuck.
It is kind of an interesting ethical discussion. One of those "would you steal to feed your family" kinds of things that is, unfortunately, not a mere hypothetical for lots of people these days.
So it sounds like you would be saving $200-300 a month by bailing and renting. I guess you gotta ask yourself if the $200-300 a month is worth the moral compromise? If at some future date you want to be able to say to your children that although you may not be rich, you kept your word even though the rest of the world didn't. Things will come back around. And when they do you might be one of the few who never missed a payment. Or you could be one of the Benny Profanes sitting in some apartment on a mattress stuffed with that $200-300 a month you saved.
And, next June, when my lease is up, I can move my big ass and my leather couch and stuff anywhere I damn well please without confronting an ethical dilemma of walking away from an underwater mortgage.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsquared
It is a good point that you bring up, but when the other side doesn't care about or want to help you out why would it be a moral compromise. If the bank was working with him and he screwed them then it would be different. However these banks have brought about this crisis on themselves. Granting out loans that they had no business giving and now that everything has gone to shit they won't work with the people that are going to keep them solvent. My personal opinion is that if the other side is crooked than moral compromise goes out the window.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsquared
I was thinking the other day how that this will be the real damage done to our already morally compromised society. It's pretty fucking hard to talk to kids and try to tell them to think right after all this.Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPogue
oh I wouldn't walk and rent. He's gonna be in the area for another 7-8 years, I'd only walk after buying another, better house for half price and moving into it. That's more like $700/month savings, plus building equity on a house that may (hopefully) appreciate over that time period.
I agree. But unfortunately, it isn't just the bank he would be screwing over. Even if we postulate that the bank is an evil empire, his loan is owned by hundreds or thousands of people. Peoples pensions, peoples salaries all depend on people living up to their obligations. Not to mention his neighbors who are also struggling with the same dilemma. Indeed, questionable ethics permeate this entire crisis. But at some point people need to stop trying to figure out who fucked who harder and dig in their heels for the struggle otherwise you are just passing your problem onto somebody else.Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPogue
This no different than any other scandal throughout history and we will see more. There will always be shitbags trying to steal other people's money. Just got to tell kids the difference. I try to follow the Golden Rule but that doesn't mean I am going to let people walk over me and treat me like shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
How would he be able to buy another house? Just interested to know. I know guys that have 800 credit scores, no debt besides their mortgage, and make $100k plus a year and banks are giving them a hard time refinancing.Quote:
Originally Posted by khakis
Read that link StuGotz posted on top of the page. Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPogue
Good points all around. I have flip flopped between the devil on my right shoulder and the angel on my left for the last two years. I always seem to come back to mcsquared's POV: If I just always do the right thing, somehow I will come out alright in the end. Then I do the math and I realize the 'right thing' doesn't pencil out. But should it? How much is my integrity worth? Is there solice 15 years from now to be able to say, "Hey, alot of us did it!" ?
I look at it like this. Imagine if the rules of this game were such that if your house increased in value, the bank could come to you and say, "Hey, we're holding 90% of your house and we kind of want to cash out. So either give us some of the increased equity or were selling." Isn't it the same thing? We both went in assuming certain risks. Now after it goes to shit I say I'm out?
It's interesting that the guys I know in the bussiness world seem to have a "Hey, it's just bussiness" attitude. Part of me thinks that's what got us in this mess. But then part of me realizes that's why those guys are rich and I'm not.
Shit. I'm back to looking back at forth and the devil and angel!
I know it happens...I did it in May (refi, not walk). I know they look at the amount owed on your liabilities, but does underwriting appraise them when they are writing a new loan?Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPogue
look at it this way:
if you were able to "pull a fast one" and save $700/month for 8 years, that's $67,200. Then if you were able to sell the new house for a profit rather than take a bath selling your current one
The fact that you're even considering it tells me that you should go ahead and do it. If you were going to lose sleep over it you wouldn't have posted the thread, and just went ahead and kept making your payments. At least for the 4 years until your ARM goes through the roof and you find yourself in a really bad spot.
Benny, the problem with getting conventional loans is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Anything over 80% ltv requires PMI and in declining areas like CA, the PMI companies basically don't want to insure loans at this point unless it is a golden package at 90% ltv (85% ltv on condos) or less.
I agree with your comment that without FHA financing for high ltv loans, the entry market would be fucked, as is the jumbo market. Now I will remind you I have been in the mortgage biz since 1984 and in that time both FHA and VA have remained solvent and fine even after the comparable loss in values from 1991-1995 to what we are seeing today. So I am not worried about FHA going away. Frankly all of the shit loans that were originated in the last 5 years were conventional stated income loans, as no one wanted a full doc FHA/VA loan at that time. Yes the pension funds, hedge funds, etc that invested in those loans are getting fucked, but that is part of the business cycle. I see FHA tightening up their lending standards, so really, I think that program will be solvent to support high ltv loans and the market. It is the Jumbo values that need huge down payments or low ltvs for conventional financing. Frankly, the real estate loan market is likely very similar to what we had in the 1960's. Conventional lenders want 20%+ down and if it is your first or 2nd home, you go FHA/VA.
Sounds oddly like an experience I had trying to re-fi. Not to mention the closing costs on re-fi's are ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPogue
Well, Wells Fargo isn't helping their cause. I tried calling again to see if I could get anywhere with them on a refi. The first guy said he could do 125% of current value, I'd have to eat the rest- um ya, no thanks. Then he sent me into phone land to "someone else who could help me." I entered all my info, sat on hold for 15 minutes and then the call just ended.
If I could get out of the ARM with a decnet rate, they stand a chance of getting the money I borrowed. If not, they stand a pretty good chance of not getting it. WTF is wrong with these people?
That is interesting. Funny thing is these guys have no intention of defaulting and why would they if they were trying to refinance just to get a better loan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
I think most aren't aware that the government, using your tax dollars, is continuing the same lax lending practices to keep the bubble inflated, and maybe re-inflate it.
http://online.wsj.com/video/meet-gin...A172A44B3.html
The Next Fannie Mae
Ginnie Mae and FHA are becoming $1 trillion subprime guarantors.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...183078806.html