Roadside garbage wind chimes bro. Let go. Be free
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Roadside garbage wind chimes bro. Let go. Be free
Yup, while Warren Buffet laughs at the profitsQuote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
Quote:
Originally Posted by neufox47
I guess if you need to buy it, it sucks. But so does a lender requiring protection right? If you want to self insure, you might want the resources available if something goes south. Insurance companies are dicks but sometimes protecting your biggest asset that you borrowed to "own" has some stipulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
It's a bet against yourself, effectively. I'm well aware that the money I pay on insurance policies is just a hedge against something Bad happening, and statistically it's unlikely to pay off. It annoys me every time I make a payment or see an auto debit.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
But if you're the outlier for whom the Bad thing did happen and you didn't have enough cash accessible to cover the loss, the impact is going to suck.
Small-scale example: I pay for doggie health insurance for my dog. I hope to never use it, but it's worth $73/month to have a reasonable expectation that I'm never going to have to put him down because I can't afford veterinary care that would keep him alive.
Understanding what you're getting for coverage (amounts and types) is important so you can weigh the costs against the risks and impacts. I never carried collision coverage on beater cars because if I crashed them, the better financial move was to replace them. But I carried greater than minimum liability because I didn't want to be paying off someone else's car and medical bills for decades, plus I figured the insurance company would be better motivated to not agree I was at fault if they were on the hook for a bigger claim. YMMV.
Really what you are buying with insurance is a reduction of volatility. Absent the low probability high pay out event, the NPV of the decision will be negative. Many people can't self insure because the either lack the budgeting backbone to build reserves or they don't have the asset base to absorb the negative event on a cash flow basis.
If they rebuild cost for your house is $500k you don't have a mortgage (no insurance requirement), run through that Monte Carlo and see which one makes more sense for you.
Yep - I'm in that situation and I definitely ain't rollin' them dice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
I've had one big claim for a commercial property.
I will probably not live long enough to pay the premiums to put me in the negative.
Not having insurance likely would have had me bankrupt- and in my profession that has complications.
Not to say I didn't have to fight like hell to get the payout I was contractually entitled to.
Your mileage may vary.
I will never defend insurance companies here but can point out that if your house burns down in Montana and is a total loss, the insurer is on the hook for the full value of the improvements as stated in the declarations:Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
33-24-102. Insuring improvements -- insurance equal to true value. Whenever any policy of insurance is written to insure any improvements upon real property in this state against loss or damage and the property insured is considered to be a total loss, without criminal fault on the part of the insured or the insured's assigns, the amount of insurance written in the policy must be taken conclusively to be the true value of the property insured and the true amount of loss and measure of damages.
In contrast, if your house is merely damaged, like in a hailstorm, get out the lube because the insurer will do everything they can to fuck you over, and they are experts at it.
Further, and on a slightly different topic, don't overlook the other types of coverage you get from a regular homeowner policy, like personal liability coverage. That shit DOES kick in more than you'd think and just the fact that the insurer has to pay for a lawyer if you get sued for something crazy is an enormous benefit because most lawyers can't even afford a lawyer.
/not legal advice, etc.
Yep. Me neither.Quote:
Originally Posted by RootSkier
And the more I think about it... insurance is more of a racket than a scam. :D
The more you look under the covers, the more you will think this. Remember that most insurance companies are for profit. It’s not socialism.Quote:
Originally Posted by skaredshtles
I’d appreciate Hutash’s POV.
He suffered a catastrophic loss.
Yeah, it's definitely a racket. They pay dividends ffs.
But liability (in all cases - house, car, job...) necessitates it.
The House always wins.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
I dislike insurance. But with a wife and child, could not imagine life without the peace of mind.
And typical Canuck plug - basic healthcare (or any basic social safety net that guarantees basic human dignity in a modern sense) should not require for profit insurance.
even with no kids I would be fucked if this place burnt down, only people who self insure do so cuz they are too far from any fire protection to do anything but let it burn
I remember the morning i walked out the front door and seen that some of LHutz's business files had drifted a couple blocks on the wind to my front lawn
Residential RE is just a beast on steroids.
Quote:
The median monthly U.S. housing payment hit an all-time high of $2,747 during the four weeks ending April 7, up 11% from a year earlier. Housing payments are soaring because home prices and mortgage rates are high. The median home-sale price is $378,250, up 4.5% year over year and just about $5,000 shy of the record high hit in June 2022. The average 30-year fixed mortgage rate is 6.82%, below the near-8% rates hit last October but still more than double pandemic-era lows.
Is a catastrophic event likely to happen? No. But if it does and you "self insure" you can pretty much guarantee to wipe out the vast majority of the average American's net worth. I couldn't imagine making mortgage payments for 30 years then having to carry enough investments to self insure and not be properly fucked if something did happen. Very very few people have the assets and can carry that risk.
A bunch of people gave me the business about health insurance in another thread, but I've seen the benefit, multiple times mind you, of having decent insurance. I happily write that check.
Aye - but there's the rub, isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdironRider
For a house its not hard and there are no barriers to entry.
Edit: I would say its not hard and no barriers outside of say CA, who has done their best effort to basically make insurance unobtainable.
so house insurance sucks ?
Does car insurance suck ?
Does personal insurance also suck and is the bank gona give the small business owner an operating loan without insurance ?
Did Florida make itself uninsurable too?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdironRider
shhhhQuote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
Allstate raised our premium from like $1,800 to $4,800 after we made a claim for a burst pipe. USAA is quoting me $2k, so good riddance Allstate. We beat the house: they paid out more in claims than the total amount we paid in premiums
By that measure everything that involves profit is a scam and you’ve redefined scam. You might be able to build your own house way cheaper too, then you need even less money. Question is can you suffer a catastrophic loss without insurance and not have it be a life changing financial event? Would you rather “lose” a few thousand dollars a year or risk a catastrophic loss that wipes your savings or forces significant downsizing?Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
Prop 13 in CA limits rate increases to 7%, where FL is capped at almost double that at 13%. That is why you can still get a policy in FL, albeit you have to justifiably pay for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dunfree
But sure, throw them on the list too.
That said, you arguing insurance should be subsidized by the Govt? Fuck that noise. You can pay to insure your beach house yourself.
Well I dunno about suck because I have had no claims, ever, not home or auto, but I can say it’s getting pretty expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
CalCas in the last 3 yrs for home went from $542 to $692 to $1180 for home. Now just this month Auto went from $159 (3 rigs and 2 drivers perfect driving records) to $270 a month.
When I called they blamed all the other claims in the state. When I told them I would need to walk away after 14yrs they said don’t let the door hit you.
Insurance is a mind fuck because it is a game you are trying to lose.
so it’s the fault of anti-government 1970s shitheads. Gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdironRider
Health insurance, homeowner insurance, car insurance, life insurance...the list goes on. Ever price long-term care insurance? Sky is the limit. You just never know what awful tragedies might befall you. Be afraid, be very afraid. Buy more insurance!
Imagine if you took all that money you pay for insurance over, say, ten years and instead invested it. You'd probably have enough to cover most calamities.
But almost nobody would do that. And when a calamity came, they would be fucked.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
I mean - this is *precisely* why insurance exists.
You can not like it, but... it's one of the prices of living in a modern society.
Just out of curiosity - do YOU self-insure?
What, you think I'm fucking CRAZY?! I got insurance up the ass just like the rest of you. We're all being taken for a ride.Quote:
Originally Posted by skaredshtles
Look at all the money these fuckers pour into commercials--big money advertising during NFL games, PGA, NBA, etc. What if all that money they make in profits instead went to payouts? Or lower rates? If we truly NEED insurance to live in modern society, then wouldn't it be in the collective best interest to make it nonprofit? It's not like buying Coke or new cars or any of the other shit that gets advertised all the time.
So... you first, Cap'n.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
:fmicon: :D
This was roughly the whole HSA/high deductible insurance thing and works best if your risk is tailweighted.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
You say probably have enough to handle most calamities…have you actually ran your numbers?
My number for policies for my home, auto and umbrella because they also cover liability if I hurt someone else or their property in addition to protecting my own property is $63k in the bank at 8% return after 10 years. Basically I could cover totally one of my three cars, or a major water leak, or part of of the medical bills and car repairs if I hit someone else. But that’s it.
If I do my life, health and disability annual cost at 8% for 10 years, I could get one major surgery (don’t forget the contract discounts insurance provides) or replace less than half of one year’s annual gross income or leave my spouse enough to pay to retire a couple years before social security kicks in.
Results will probably vary.
What's annoying on top of simply paying $25k+ a year for insurance for biz and other things, is lazy fucking insurance salesmen. For example, I fill out a renewal for a $12k insurance plan every year for one type of insurance, and the insurance dude gets his assistant to sends a renewal form as a jpeg format. I passively aggressively told him it's super easy to make it a fillable form in Acrobat for customers, make it easy for me please, but no. Guy needs to float by and do the minimum amount of work. I don't know what insurance guys get for selling plans but I hope it's $100 and a kick in the nuts.
Or when you get a renewal and they add a bunch of options on to the renewal, without explaining WTF those options are and that they are in fact optional. It would be great if you could lean on these people as experts who can guide and explain things. I know competent caring insurance guys have to exist - but they don't exist in my small little world.
After this, let’s talk about health insurance and that industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
my buddy was selling life insurance for one of the house brands which really sucked so he a became a broker and was able to sell anything depending on the clients needs. He got into focusing on the small business owner so he would sell all the business needs and dental plans for the employees, term insurance to cover the operating line of credit, mutual funds ect so how hard is that i ask ?
he said it was easy just walk in on time look around and ask buddy one question "so how did you ever get into this ?" and the guy will talk all day cuz he is all alone in this office with no one to talk to cuz everyone works for him
not getting insurance sounds about as dumb as defund the police,
I think the salesman gets basically the equivalent of the first 6 months of premiums, give or take. I believe it is on a slightly different payment schedule but runs out after a year or three, then you see them come crawling back around to "reassess your risk" and basically sell you an entirely new policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted reborn
That speaks more to the universal sleaziness of salesmen more than the value of the product though.
sounds like you are talking about a " house agent " ^^ so all he/ she sells is one brand of whole life, if you see them coming walk across the street and get a guy who can/ will sell you any term product
Too lazy to find a better one?Quote:
Originally Posted by muted reborn
They’re out there. That’s about $3-4k agency revenue. If your agent is independent, they’re somewhere between 30-50% overhead. If they’re working for one of the big houses, the agent is getting probably 25% of that $3-4k. The independent is probably limited on company appointments so not many options to present to you. The big house agent doesn’t make enough on the deal ($600-700 after tax) to either interrupt his tee time, put your renewal in front of those bigger premiums ($25k may seem like a lot to you but is under the threshold most brokers with true insurance expertise and market access will care about), or the big shop doesn’t even pay the agent because they have minimum premiums to stay out of there small business units. Plus, insurance companies are assholes to deal with right now so your agent is burnt out-a lot of them are.
My advice if you want to spend the time looking for a new agent is find someone a bit younger who has been at it 3-5 years with some older agents back at the bigger agency (look at their website or ask the agent if they feel they have good mentorship). Those type of folks will still hustle for you, have decent market access, and some experienced people to talk to when things get tricky.