They *really* want to have a SA to pay for lawyers to fight this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
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They *really* want to have a SA to pay for lawyers to fight this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
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The stupid #I'vegotaplaceinfraser #howlonghaveyoulivedhere #irememberwhen crowd looks at me cross eyed when I tell 'em you didn't used to be able to by under wear in this town.
You can't put the genie back in the bottle and if the mid 90s never ended I think some of my crowd may be in jail or worse.
And I enjoy the easy livin' too but it has made it busier and more expensive. I do wonder if the aging demographic is gonna catch up with this place.
If 50 and we are still the kids in the room. There us a definite vacuum of 30ish folk making this there home.
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...sigh... the good ol' days. I came at a REALLY good time. Was a really chill place and quasi-affordable (post-crash), but yup. Was the beginning of the end for sure as things starting getting monopolized from there on out. Before I moved there, the hotels at the mountain used to offer really good ski & stay deals too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
Speaking of everyone selling out, have you heard about Chico Hot Springs? Some big hospitality investment firm out of Maryland just bought them for $33MM. So much for that place. :(
Yeah, I used to really like Chico. When I was with BSSP we had our end of the season party there 4-5 years running until we were banned. Not much publicity in this but LML has acquired a LOT of land in the West Crazy Mountains including what was the Marlboro Ranch. Big plans afoot.
Interesting. Not the case here at all, Everyone is 30-something and has/ is starting a family.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
WG asked way upthread why people buy in CB and for a big chunk of people the top 3 answers are the school, the school, and the school. Half the kids here end up at Mines or some other good school, and the other half go skiing at Montana State.
Hahaha. That's hilarious. I coincidentally ended up at one of those end of season parties there (pre-kids) and you're not joking. That crew went hard. Even I had to call it a night. I wonder if we hung out that night and didn't even know it! Lol. I've noticed that the Chico mgmt has gotten significantly more uptight since then, with much less tolerance for such tomfoolery. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
Hmm... I had heard some time ago they were considering doing some sort of fancy shmancy heli operation up in the Crazies. It makes a ton of sense on every level, minus the gnarly avi conditions the Crazies are prone to, but still. I've always dreamed about skiing some of those slopes but they're just so hard for us normies to get to. With the big ranches around there, it'd be sweet to have some lux lodge with a helipad. Rich people everywhere gonna be crawling all over each other to book a stay for sure. Contrary to popular belief (thanks to some of the celebs up there), the YC actually does have some exceptional skiers up there I've had the pleasure of getting some ski tours from. I'm sure they'd be down for a heli trip to the Crazies. LML being involved makes sense. That said, every time these mega-acquisitions goes down, I feel another piece of Montana's soul getting sucked away into the ether.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
My last Chico would have been around end of 2002. Ate too many cookies and ended up a chocolate mess on the couch. I believe that Chico banned and lifted that ban several times after that year until they finally said enough.
RE Crazies and Heli ops. I believe that there has been some exploratory done on private peaks in that range already. And yes there are some very fine skiers (rippers) that are Y/C members. And as you experienced some pretty good terrain. x10 on the soul sucking.
I'll counter that a bit and say that I'm continuously surprised by the amount/percentage of people in our social circles who still commit 2hrs+ driving round trip to go to Target, 3hrs to go to Costco or justify a 8hr r/t to Denver for basic "shopping." Obviosuly some people like shopping in person, but I can't imagine giving up half my day or my whole weekend to go buy something from a corporate entity that would ship it to me for free. My boys are only four so we're not decimating the pantry yet, but the Costco thing really blows my mind. I grew up with one 2mi away and my mom went weekly, but fuck driving hours and hours to overspend. Target, Costco, Amazon will send most all of it to your door while you go ski or live your life. /rantQuote:
Originally Posted by goldenboy
That's funny I just did my WFR recert in Boulder a few weeks back and was chatting with Greydanus' fiance. We were chatting about ski town living/survival and trying to buy a place. I got a sense that they were among a decent sized cohort of 30-somethings trying pull the trigger. That seemed so nice but out of reach as most free market buying here is a distant joke of an idea. Anyone whose non-trust-funders and works for a living is only going to be buying employee housing (when/if they win) or trying to find something under $1M 30-60min away.Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenboy
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPNHSUS
Median sale price of NEW homes drops by highest margin ever, -17.6% year-over-year. New homes make up about 1/6 of all US home sales.
https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/in...ndex/#overview
Case-Shiller home sale price index rose 3.9% annually to an all-time high.
So new homes have the largest ever price decline while all home prices reach an all-time high. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!
Existing homes are in cooler locations?
Homes are overpriced, again????
wow, looks like I have not read the last 7 pages of this thread. What did I miss? Did you guys solve the real estate problem yet?
I did actually. But then I deleted my post and forgot what I said.
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^^^my theory is it will fix when the boomers have a significant die off...probably 20 years away as they drain all the medical resources for a good decade.
I can understand San Diego having rising prices(I guess), but Detroit? I would have thought ever place would be cooling with mortgage rates so high, but guess a lot of all cash buyers out there still.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tips^Up
https://www.marketplace.org/2023/11/...-price-growth/
Quote:
Originally Posted by 406
There will be corresponding inheritances fueling another bump up in the market.
Investors bought 1 in 5 homes in Boston area with no intention of living in them, report says
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/...ousing-market/
Investors are snapping up 1 in 5 Maine homes
https://www.bangordailynews.com/2023...es-joam40zk0w/
Jeff Bezos-Backed Real Estate Company Is Launching A New Fund To Acquire More Single-Family Homes Across The U.S.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jeff-...151102586.html
I think the Amazon/general quick e-commerce thing is often overlooked in the growth of mountain towns. As someone already said, you used to need to want it more badly; it also used to be a lot more painful if you needed a piece of technology ASAP for business purposes. Working in IT, I make a lot fewer emergency big-box runs than I used to.
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Tips^Up
Americans have been making people faster than housing.
And that little bald freak is just the latest billionaire asshole jumping into "rentifying" the market.
This is what needs to be stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazderati
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazderati
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker
NOT cool. This may be one of the largest factors effecting things so much. Investment firms are out of control with this nonsense and it's screwing over the common man in a big way. More than STR, more than WFH tech guys, more than Californian refugees.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
Weird observation I've noticed lately. In my own neighborhood where homes are infrequently for sale (since the market got wild that is), the last 3 or 4 homes were snagged by investors. Paying waaaay over asking, cash of course, and like the same day the property hits the market. That's been par for the course these last couple years, but here's the weird part. Homes that were purchased over the course of the last year or so have sat completely vacant! They're not renting them out or anything. Nobody's living there. This is frustrating to both renters and honest home shoppers alike.
Are these a-holes purposefully leaving properties vacant as to artificially reduce available rental and RE inventory, thus driving up prices across the board?! Because that's what it appears like on the surface at least.
Yes. Buy and hold. It’s cheaper to not have a tenant. They don’t need the cash flow. They are hedging on rates dropping back to the 4-5% range and house prices going upwards again. These are big companies with big portfolios backed by big data/quantitative whiz kids who model this stuff out at scale.
I know someone who works for a company that does data science for portfolio investing of real estate and they will buy up all available homes in an area to hold. There’s money tied to this that is beyond what we can all wrap our heads around as poors.
Someones got the loot for sure - I get unsolicited txts from out-of-state PH#s / Post cards via snail mail w pics of my property on front offering to buy my rental-duplex almost weekly. "Need cash? We close quick for cash etc etc."
Its in a neighborhood made up of similar type properties (multi-family rentals).
We also have a 1BR condo rental property out in the sticks in a rural zip code.......never once have we had one offer(to date).
Gentlemen? I think we may have just gotten to the root of the problem!!! Whereas these billionaire dickheads would have us all squabbling about STR and out of towners invading, the ACTUAL truth is more insidious. Everything else is just a distraction. That is so messed up they're purposefully driving down available inventory to both buyers and renters alike.Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKALVS
Next time you see that guy who does all that data science, would kindly please kick him in the nuts on our behalf? Tell them they can pass along the nut kicking to their higher ups. Thank you much.
So the institutional investors are buy and hold passive investors in single family homes. They are activtly reducing supply by just letting them sit. Then they selectively rent them at artificially low prices. Got an Excel or back of the envelope calc you can share?
Who said they're renting them at low prices? They're not renting them AT ALL is what I've been seeing. They're buying and holding, thus screwing over everybody else in the market. I don't have any hard data to back this up. Just what I've observed in my own neighborhood. Homes that were snatched up at obscene prices that no real sane person could or would compete with, sold within hours of hitting the market, and then sitting permanently vacant. These are good condition homes too, so it's not like they're waiting to reno to get a tenant in or anything. Some have had the lights off for like a year+ now. It's bizarre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
Sorry. low supply was want I meant.
I'm just trying to understand the game and I'm not sure where paying above fair value to have them sit empty fits in.
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Long game. Remember how impossibly expensive and unaffordable houses were in 2008? Don’t you wish you had bought a house in 2008 now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
So RE to the moon! I'm sure their are undervalued markets. Next time you talk to the sharps let me know what they says.
Remember, even the cash buyer needs a return. As mentioned up thread, I'm guessing the number must be 8-10% give what low/no risk liquid investment is paying right now.
And no I don't wish I bought in 08...now 98...that's a different story.
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Why are big companies allowed to buy single family units again and are not just limited to commercial projects? O ya, unfettered Capitalism. :rolleyes2 Such BS. If everyone is all worked up over AirB&B's why is your representatives phone not blowing up over this issue?
It’s about leveraging debt to buy physical assets that will increase in value at a greater rate than the devaluation of our currency via inflation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
So by "leveraging debt" I assume you mean borrowing in the capital markets to buy residential real estate.
Let's say you've got a 10 year time horizon and you want to build a $100million portfolio. Show be the math.
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I also dont see how the math favors buying houses and letting some sit empty, vs buying houses and renting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKALVS
How much would you guestimate this strategy would need to increase housing prices to be financially better than rental income/equity building + normal appreciation?
E.g. I have a 500k home that i rent out at $2500/month = $30k/year. Add in about 5% appreciation per year and im at $55k in gross revenue in the first year. If i let my $500k home just sit and hope that the created scarcity raises the appreciation of my other $500k homes, then i would have to hope for about a 10% increase in appreciation, or about double the appreciation rate just to break even and would come with ZERO cashflow. I just dont really see that happening.
I would seem like the smart thing to do would be to buy up all the housing stock (thus creating scarcity for buyers), and renting out the housing stock to create revenue and cashflow, with the ability to sell off inventory that has appreciated when additional capital needs to be raised.
What do people need to survive? Food, water, shelter. What are the uber rich people buying-farm ground, water rights, property either high enough at elevation or latitude to avoid climate crisis, and single family houses not in natural disaster areas.
Outside of that, not too many long term safe investments. It's not something new. My grandpa told me when I was pretty young to buy dirt. He said it's something people absolutely need and they can't make more of it. I should have been a better listener.
I don't know the math on letting them sit empty but institutional investment in housing has been around for a long time. There's nothing sacred but find a politician willing to take this one. Their pensions and money is in the funds doing this. I bet a lot of TGR posters have some of their retirement tied up in it whether they know it or not.
This thread is taking an odd shift.
So we are just against property rights now? You have the inherent right to let a property sit vacant if you so desire.
I'm not even saying the theory is wrong. I'm just saying "show your work" in addition to some frothy mouthed word sald hot take.
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And you have an inherent right to be a dick, that is what led us to the disaster of Trump.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdironRider
Certainly a ‘second way’ of investing that doesn’t screw communities and available housing stock would be better for us as a society. And living in a better society will reap more benefits, ultimately, that focusing on sheer personal or corporate greed.
But alas, some people are incapable of ‘thinking bigger than themselves’, and make decisions that benefit only them (or their corporation).
The choice is yours.
Who do property rights serve if a majority can't afford property? I think there was a declaration written about this awhile ago. Something about life and liberty or something.
Institutional investors are not a major factor with availability or driving up residential pricing. It sounds good to the masses but there are a dozen more variables involved.
https://www.nar.realtor/sites/defaul...05-12-2022.pdf
Sure, but NEVER to this extent. Blackrock's on another level of dick behavior.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conundrum
I strongly believe in personal property freedoms. I am not so supportive of VCs and Hedge Funds manipulating the housing markets.