^whats the site development and infrastructure cost like in a mountain town vs an established city. I’m not being a smartass for once.
I agree that the development cost per unit is outrageous but how inflated are the mountain development costs?
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^whats the site development and infrastructure cost like in a mountain town vs an established city. I’m not being a smartass for once.
I agree that the development cost per unit is outrageous but how inflated are the mountain development costs?
Construction labor in the mountains is pretty crazy. A local company just did our roof and subbed most of it out to a bunch of dudes from Greeley. That math really shouldn't work...Quote:
Originally Posted by Skistack
That’s everything except the land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
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That is impressive. The total cost (land+design+permits+construction) for a similarly sized affordable project (acreage and unit count) here in the Seattle metro area im working on is less than a third of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinevibes
The point is it's not affordableQuote:
Originally Posted by alpinevibes
A 500k deed restricted home is not affordable housing
The amount of give aways and freebies to devepers to build these and profit is stupid
It's socialism and redistribution of wealth and then someone randomly becomes a winner
I know construction costs and they are stupid. They are what is pushing home values way way up
Don't get me wrong I'm playing devils advocate and I'm all for it
But those that choose affordable housing are getting a major subsidy in life
What the Upper Roaring Fork Valley wants to do with their tax revenue is not my business. But to hold it up as an example how its working seems like a bit of a stretch.
Personally, I don't want to live in subsided housing and I don't want that to be the norm for the community I've lived in for 30 years. I'd like the conversation to consider the alternatives.
Send the bill to the consumer in the form of higher prices. That's what the construction industry does. Invest in infrastructure. Make commuting cool again. Pay teachers and other important civil servants 2x what they make. Let the for profit sector sink or swim.
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Lol. Doubling salary for teachers and civil servants ain’t gonna change shit when they are competing against centimillionaires and billionaires, but you do your deluded brobullshit
K buddy. I'd tell you to shut the fuck up about what you don't know but that not your game.
The point is that many places don't have nor are they attractive to billionaires yet there is not stock of housing for working people to afford.
Everyone is always moving the piñata but nobody is taking a swing.
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Yeah, I know nothing about places where local workers can’t afford to live. Which is why my high school teachers commuted an hour and a half, and local firefighters/emts often lived 2 hrs away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
you’ll still be a dipshit that thinks your problems are unique and keep advocating failed solutions because yer a dipshit. Time to exit this circle jerk
Actually just about the opposite, but you act won't let you ever come close to agreeing with me.
I think the challenges are the opposite of unique. That why I'm involved in rallying against the "let's build a couple hundred really expending subsidized housing units and then go to an early happy hour and give each other high 5 and bang back some pinot gri" attitude.
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Fred, Foggy - the reality here is that there's no possible way to exist long-term here as a working person without subsidized housing (barring family money, obv) or one of the few remaining cheap LTR. That's not to say any of us are entitled to living here or deserve it or deserve to "win" a lottery. And that's not to say any of us should expect to live out our lives here. But: the broader reality is that the economy, community and resort aspects need workers - both hourly and salaried. The economy, community and resort wants/needs workers to live in proximity to their jobs. For it that all to work and for the town/resort to retain its character, feel and attraction to certain constituents (ie not become Mountain Village, Mount CB or Keystone): the community needs to house a noticeable portion of it's own workers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
For the whole thing to work, workers need to buy in and accept the options: if an expensive rental/roommate situation doesn't work or a somewhat-compromised deed restricted housing option doesn't work then I guess you pack up and move. I get that the AltaSnob's of the world will say that everyone should just live 1-2hrs away, where it's cheap, and commute [environmental footprint aside], but neither the employees themselves nor the employers want that. Those living situations and commutes continue to be a major part of the service industry/hourly base in this type of community, but it's not a broad solution for all the needs of the community. Even living 20-45min away isn't a affordable or realistic option, here, for most working people now in 2023.
I'd love to see "essential workers" here be paid more, but around here that's not going to move the needle for housing and remove the solution of "affordable" projects as the means to accomplish it. I work at a school - I'm a bus driver; my wife's a PT: we're right in the middle of this. Again: no one is entitled to anything here, but economy wants things to work a certain way and 40+ years ago, our community voted to start taking a small slice from the [mostly wealthy] free market home sellers and using that money to build housing. I guess that strikes Fred as sOciAliSm, but he himself braggs about scamming rich pricks to pay for his van/weed/sexcapade life. Does anyone here really oppose taking a small fraction from the 1% - Fred certainly doesn't? Thus, are Fred's business practices really any different than a community deciding to tax those same folks to benefit the community at a broader level.
Yeah, the 84k one is in much better shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain
We are saying the same thing. WP isn't Aspen and Granby isn't Carbondale.
We have an option to do it differently but we just put the blinders on and only consider the Aspen Model.
Everyone is wired differently and entirely to their own opinions. I just try and not paint with a broad brush.
I'm working on a kitchen remodel for a teacher and a heavy equipment mechanic. These are the type of people i enjoy being around. I got my fingers crossed that in 20 years. the option for the working class isn't subsidized for GTFO.
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I was bored and looked at rental pricing in coastal San Diego today. Holy shit, everything has gone up a bunch since I looked a year ago. How do working people afford $5k-$7k a month for rent. Mind blown.
That's not it and you know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by byates1
People want to live in Bozeman for things they can't get in Jordan. This isn't limited to the BZN, and it's been going on forever. I'd like to live in Malibu, but I can't afford it, so I don't.
The only way this is going to change is when we start taxing the shit out of wealthy people so they can't afford 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th homes in places they like to play a few days a year in. But the economy will change with that, we've built communities that depend on recreation dollars, once that revenue source goes away, a lot of other things are, too. Those boarded up downtowns in "real" Montana happened because the AG and railroad economies stopped being viable 75 years ago.
Impossible to tax the wealthy out of these towns.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain
Raising funds for workforce housing should be the easy part. If a STR property is being operated as a commercial business tax it as such. Add a property tax premium to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th homes not occupied by a local resident for most of the year. Issue bonds against that stream of income.
The hard part is getting that workforce housing built for all the reasons that have been discussed.
it doesn't work eventually it all crashes downQuote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
it's not working but everyone is pretending it does
why do you think this country is full of so many angry people right now
I mean if you have a combined income of over 250k it might work
Kids are starting jobs right out of college at higher salaries than I ever made.Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfred
For resort towns I like the idea of extreme real estate taxation. Around here you get $100k shaved off your tax valuation if you show you live there.
Crank that up to $500k and double the tax rate on the rich second third and fourth homoners and we might get somewhere
Inflation adjusted?Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
Yeah I know. It's just patently redic someone would pay 570k for that. It's fine. It'll just become Jackson north, in 20 yrs the avg home will be 3/4 M. Cute little bozone. Every single worker will be a 1.5 hr bus ride one way. Like SV. They bus them in from twin.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain
Entitlement, feigned ignorance, whataboutism, elitism, whining, what else am I missing in that article?
“I solely relied on the word of my landlord, never really read the official requirements, and never called APCHA for clarifications. I’m now suicidal because of a note left on my door. But I look cute in this hat.”
That hat. That fucking hipster coachella hat.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain
Edit: ha! mcphee beat me to the hat callout.
I mean obviously she pissed of the wrong people. "Everyone else is breaking the rules, why can't I?"
I had a friend get in on the Aspen affordable housing train in the late 90s. I didn't understand it then.
Nothing will make you question your life choices than having to bounce from the party and miss AM bong rips 'cause you gotta make rent.
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tgr delivers thanks gentlemen
haveing a shitty morning and your comments brighten my day
Is this a reskinned article from The Onion or such spoof ? Nobody is so stupid and vapid enough to actually pen this for public consumption. Obviously her highly leveraged education didn't teach common sense.
While I could not care less about someone losing their "forever" apartment of only a few months, she at least hits the nail by calling out the bullshit income manipulation every affordable resident I know of has done.
But yeah, the hat. Hard to sympathize.
A forever home is a 2 br rental unit? And based on that article, her income when she moved in was $37K. In Aspen. WTF does she do for a living, part time instagram influencer?
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
pretty muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Danno
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristenmcc/
To Foggys point many pages ago, the Aspen model picks winners rather than have a sustainable model with regular availability for working folks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
Periodic winning lottery ticket distribution is not how you solve this.
Weird that someone capable of completing graduate school thought the town would subsidize her for single occupancy of a 2 bed, 2 bath.
I’d assume she’s lying about her ignorance, but she says right up front that she always tells the truth.
Ha...the residents are the product. This is the solution. The chick with the hat is exactly the story the who's who want from their waitress. A very white, very medicated smile. This ain't no resort in Mexico.
Reminds me of when I was rental shop manager. It was time for the pre Spring Break chat about showing up 15mins late in your ski clothes stinking of weed and beer. One of my best employees and friends made the point that , "yeah, but that's what the customers want from their ski tech".
He was right. Gotta maintain the venner that it's all smiles in the up valley ski town. It's good for business.
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should be a used car salesperson with that kind of honesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
For fuck's sake.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain
Fashion, Nature & Sports Model
Vail Resorts · Contract
Skills: Snowboarding · Laughing · Teamwork · Summer Activities · Acting
and a nanny/baby sitter is a "child care specialist"
Yeah, that's what struck me. The idea that a rental - the very definition of not permanent - could be her forever home is a big disconnect from reality. Add to that the idea that it's subsidized, smh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
But the chef's kiss is really the "poor rich people” with their thousands/millions inheritances pulling a slightly better scam than her cringe. "What do you mean I'm going to jail for knocking over Convenience Stores? My peers are robbing banks"
Don't know wtf her post-grad is going to be, but her parents should demand their money back.
"I move here for a job"
Yeah, which one. Jump inside the bubble and you'll see that this is all day every day. My guess is that the establishment is just fired up that she figured out their racket so quickly and didn't pay by their rules.
This is pretty close to scorched earth. There is a response plan being crafted right now.
Who gonna link this thread in the online comments? That what TGR could become. Like the kids having a food fight during Thanksgiving sitting at the card table in the hallway.
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