NYT is about 5-10 years late to the party.
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NYT is about 5-10 years late to the party.
And here you have it:Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum
"Laurie Best, the longtime planning manager for housing in the community development department for the Town of Breckenridge, said she had emphasized deed-restriction policies and more generally trying to preserve existing units to reduce the need for new ones.
Ms. Best and her backers have acceded to some construction at a slow and steady pace, but they staunchly oppose taller, dense multifamily buildings, which are not, as she put it, “consistent with the character of the town.” "
Yeah, that's just nuts. [shrug emoji]Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevo
RE: the airport/flying shitshow, that's a pretty egregious example, but not particularly surprising. There are a lot of guys who are afraid of what they perceive to be sticking their neck out (taking visuals/canceling IFR, hand flying, etc) lest something goes sideways and they're out of a job. And then there are the "we're a jet in Indian country" bullies. Plus there are guys out of the military that never flew any general.
Back when I was doing corporate & air ambulance, I tried to keep in mind that there could be some kid doing their first solo turning base.
Good article.
"The stock available is limited: 70 percent of homes in the county are second homes that sit vacant most of the year or serve as short-term rentals, she said, typically Airbnbs."
Laws should be passed to make illegal the practice of STRing houses in residential neighborhoods.
Where do you even start with that kind of stupidity? Deed restrictions that completely screw over the people that do them, and slow development that ensures appreciation will just keep ramping up. But no one likes development so screw it, let's just watch those prices go to the moon!Quote:
Originally Posted by skaredshtles
Props for honesty. I think is this way of thinking was more transparent, we'd have a better conversation. Just like many things today, the politicians claim to be trying to engineer a painless solution while effectively doing very little other that justifying their own existence, the Karen's weaponize their opinions (or as they like to call them their rights) and are just plain nasty and those with the true power keep cashing checks at laugh at all of us in the back room at Cherry Creek Country Club.Quote:
Ms. Best and her backers have acceded to some construction at a slow and steady pace, but they staunchly oppose taller, dense multifamily buildings, which are not, as she put it, “consistent with the character of the town.
She's still not saying the quiet part out loud: people like her and "her backers" don't want multi-family buildings because working families means paying taxes to fund social services. More kids means hiring more teachers and nurses who have to be paid too much because of the housing crisis. That's not going to happen if they can help it.
They want to drive up prices and externalize costs. That's a win-win!
Yes. And lawsuits should be filed against these schmucks. Nobody should be allowed to run a mini-hotel out of a residential neighborhood at the expense of their neighbors.Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
Nah. Jesus was really into property rights. The Sermon on the Mount is just one long rant about the sacred right to do whatever you want on your own property.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
Eh, it's often simpler than that. "When I moved here it was like X. I like X, I don't want it to by Y. You say people can't afford things, so they need to be Y, but I just want the town to stay the way it is."Quote:
Originally Posted by neckdeep
As someone that's on a small town planning board, the resistance to change is much more prevalent than any evil planning or optimization, and much easier to sell as they just have to pitch nostalgia and people are in their camp.
Article is funny same bullshit different publication
Interested to see what you beaters think as usual.
I know the people mentioned in the breck part I know ge system and I know who has been paying me 100s of thousands of dollars over the years
I'm directly involved on alot of this and sone of it affects ne
I got lots to say but I enjoy my anonymity here I can't say much w out giving up who I am.
As always got here 28 years ago got mine gonna keep raping the place and move on and fuck up another town soonenough
New article in the CO Sun about a lawsuit against Breck for its STR regs: https://coloradosun.com/2023/08/17/s...t-term-rental/
One thing the article does not explain, and it is pretty big one, is what the basis for the suit is. Sure, it explains why these owners don't like the regs and how it might force some of them to sell or whatever. But generally speaking, unless they are alleging some constitutional or statutory violation, the regs only have to have a rational basis, they don't have to be "fair to everyone" in the way these people think, they don't have to be "correct", there just has to be some rational basis for the authorities to impose the regs. And there clearly is.
yEaH? WhAt aBoUt mY CoNsTiTuTiOnAl rIgHt tO Do wHaTeVeR ThE FuCk i wAnT? Eh??Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
I think I'm less anonymous than Freddy and has a bit less money tied up in the game but who knows? I am an elected official, does that make me a politician?
I think Schuss generally has his finger on the pulse. There is so much emotion involved. It's pretty hard to know what people truly think collectively as its only the people that scream the loudest that get heard. Stereotypically, many of these relatively new to the mountains peeps are running scared. They think first it's multifamily followed shortly thereafter my pit bulls, open air drug markets, homeless encampments and the absolute worst...non whites under the age of 40.
Other issue that looks like it starting to manifest around here is that market rate non subsidized multi family rentals are in competition with The Projects. Winterpark has a absolute goat fuck of a project going on right now where they can't get their own building CO'd. They went from granite counter top missing middle type units to the Motel 6. Income restricted studios are renting for $1800ish and they can't fill them.
So yeah, its a giant cluster fuck with everyone pointing the finger at everyone else.
One goal of the lawsuits is to bleed the country and town govts forcing them to defend themselves wasting countless dollars and employees time
This is one of many lawsuits ti come
I'm all for it and think it's great
Posted while being throat fucked on i70
I would absolutely just love if STRs were banned nation wide. Such a cancer on our society on so many levels,Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
I make money from the STR leeches too, but I'm not afraid to say that they should all GTFO. I charge them a ton extra when they need shit, and would be perfectly happy if that market disappeared completely and I only worked for people with jobs in the community.
It's not all about maximum profit all the time.
Your doing it wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
It is all about profit money is the reason u wake up and goto work every day
Shoot. Should I start working every day instead of riding my bike and rock climbing on weekdays? Are the people who are taking work calls while eating their take-out dinner happier than the ones who spent the day going for a bike ride and then cooking dinner from their garden?Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfred
It really seems that people have lost sight of the concept of "enough". Like, when you get enough, let off the fucking gas. If society as a whole did this instead of constantly pushing for more, we wouldn't be running out of planet.
Why do you hate America?Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
Here's a sweet pad for 570,000.
You get a teardown, w a tiny lot, garbage houses next to you, super busy street.
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...5_M82054-55234
Unreal.
It's sad to see the planning manager for housing, of all people, lead out the fight against density and added height. I lived in the Wellington neighborhood years ago and while it's great to have the space and SFH neighborhood feel, that's not that realistic for housing projects in expensive resort towns 20 years on. Breck does have space but they can also capitalize on building some density and height in certain spots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
We're seeing that competition between free market multi family and affordable/deed restricted projects here in the RFV. Just shows how high the tide has risen... Not so much in Aspen, but then again up here we now have the projections for the much-debated 277 unit, 467 bedroom Lumberyard affordable housing project penciling out to $350M minimum or up to $750M if built in phases over 26 years. $1.6M per bedroom build cost against roughly $1000/mo per bedroom income - solid math. https://www.aspendailynews.com/news/...7f5ece6c9.html
affordable housing is a myth
especially in mtn towns
is this why I'm a miserable cunt and have been for the past month?Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
That's fucking insane. If that's what the City of Aspen want's to do, that is none of my concern, I guess? Literally, at any cost. But that then becomes the model and people say, "Look, it's expensive". But hey, if that's what it takes to have a smiling waiter and a good looking cart girl, send them the bill.
It's just become so narrowly focused. It's just government as developer, property owner, landlord and whatever else for the reason of "it's what we do". Around here, Granby just allocated funds to study the study produces by the multi municipality housing partnership.
If affordability was the true goal, we should just give a monthly housing stipend to lottery winners and just do away with the Housing Projects side of things. Somebody should do the math on that. If you gave $1k month to 1k families that's only $12mill a year. If that enough of an income subsidy to enough people to keep the teachers teaching and the snow shovelers shoveling? Can we then just put FEMA trailers/park models/tiny homes/cabins/high density/lofts whatever the fuck the market wants to build?
Who want to sign up for picking the tenants? Could it be like college? SAT scores, interviews, how about one of those "whoa is me" essays about how your family is Mountainy AF(tm) and this is your dream?
The problem with the "enough is enough" argument is two fold. One, everyone is gonna draw the line in a different place. I've got customers who admit that they'll never "have" to work a day in their life and neither will their kids. They play at work because it's what they do. Two, the future is so uncertain and future cost escalation for thinks like health care are potentially so astronomical that other than those with true Fuck You Money, even those with a $1mill in the bank keep grinding because, yeah, you might fucking need it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
For many of the very successful and wealthy folks that i have been around, they keep working because they love it. They are REALLY FUCKING GOOD (world class) at their career field and absolutley love doing their job and succeeding. Their career IS their hobby, it is the place they get the most satisfaction/contentment/fullfillment/etc. I know a bunch of folks who made mid-high 8 figures by their 40s, were forced to retire by their wives and families, got bored, and went back to work a couple years later. They love building a company, they love doing M&A, the love doing whatever they were REALLY good at in the first place that made them all their money. I cant really blame them- the most fun i have at my desk job is when i am killing it... that said there has never been a morning before work where i havent wanted to do something else besides my job haha. You and I would view what "they" do as a grind and pain and a shitty life where they are killing themselves to only enjoy themselves when they finally stop working... but what if their work is their enjoyment and they are having a blast working and creating, and retirement will be the pain/boredom/struggle part of their life... not their working carreer?
Boulder just got rid of a well known rule, the "no more than 3 unrelated people in a house" rule, which many people have frequently blamed (in part) for Boulder's fucked up housing situation. They changed the number to 5. Not sure if it will have any effect.
I'd be retired now if not for the healthcare travesty/debacle/bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
one of my ex's is this she goes to work everydayQuote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
her investments pay 10x more than her yearly salary
day she was born there was millions in the bank for her family is one of the largest land owners in the country the family sold their bank years ago to a big bank and it was a massive windfall for her they lost boat loads of money when castro took over cuba so guess what they all move to ski towns
Yeah. I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfred
I crack up when habitat builds two homes when five hundred are needed. I also laugh at deed restricted homes and apartments.
What we need more of is market rate apartments.
That’s worker housing.
That is incomprehensible. Their build now price is $1.2m per unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinevibes
We build very nice apartments in the front range for less than $250k a unit. Hell, we just completed a 17 story luxury building in RiNo at $375k a unit.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Question for you, can you spot the difference between these two places?Quote:
Originally Posted by byates1
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3...80700722_zpid/
There are probably a lot of folks that would like to retire early but for that pesky cost of healthcare insurance thingy. I do know some folks that made bank by getting on the dotcom band wagon early and retired early. A friend of the wife worked for a small regional bank in NYC, started out has just a teller while in HS and college. His dad was a regional VP. After the kid graduated, he got moved into the mortgage dept., and then because of nepotism, was quickly promoted up the ranks. Then good old dad came through when word got out the bank was going to be sold. Got the kid promoted to a jr. VP, which then qualified him for a sweetheart buy out package. He hasn't worked a day in his life the past 25 plus years.Quote:
Originally Posted by skaredshtles
That's the skilled labor shortage biting them in the ass. In Jackson, unskilled no-english makes at least $25 for construction. Skilled labor is ridiculous expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skistack
The mtn town guy who replaces the motor in your hot tub makes double what a certified airplane mechanic earns in the midwest.
It's all well and good as long as Aspen taxpayers are paying the bill, but I think we have better places to send federal and state grants for housing than to a tourist town full of rich property owners who can't get out of their own way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
From the article:
Quote:
City Council will also have to consider whether to pursue outside funding for the project. Ott said that all the scenarios presented on Monday excluded any potential contributions from the state, the federal government, or community partners.
Councilmembers noted that state and federal housing grants can be conditioned on the income levels of housing project residents. If the city pursues those grants, it could have to change the proportions of low-, medium-, and high-income units in the buildings. Everson noted that the state has developed new funding sources for middle-income housing, which he said is particularly helpful for Aspen.
Thanks for those data points. What's not in those numbers? Land, infrastructure, utilities?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skistack
Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse
APCHA housing is predominantly funded through a real estate transfer tax that takes 1% from the sale of any free-market unit. 2022's median SFH sales price in Aspen was $15.25M - so there's a nice pot of money generated every year, but not $300M or $750M.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnew_guy
The potential of outside funding/private-public partnership is a possibility, but more of a hail mary as Council faces what to do about the project. I don't see it coming together in a way that has significant private funding, but maybe they can figure something out. They wouldn't likely try or be able to tap into any other public funding besides bonds.
What's crazy is that I live in the largest APCHA development (170 units ownership condo units currently, with 79 being sold this fall), and across 16 years and three phases these were built for around $500k per unit against total project costs. This last phase started construction in 2021 and will probably be more like $50-60M total, so $700k cost averaged per unit, but still nothing close to the current projections for the Lumberyard.
Correct - $350M/$750M is total project costs, besides the land which the city already spent $18M in 2008 and $11M in 2019 to purchase in two pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
It's affordable here and works properly if the planning and funding is lined up with pacing that works for construction+funding timelines. But it's become way way harder and more expensive than it was a decade or two ago. But that's not really that different from free market construction in any desirable county/region at a broad level. Shits expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfred
BS...look at the stated costs of the Denver units. That difference needs to be explained but nobody in the "affordable" game wants to speak to that.
Any good conversation relies on transparency, honestly and a bit of humility. Tax payers want spreadsheets and detailed budgeted. Instead they get Executive Sessions, Workshops, Consultants, Pizza Parties and blow jobs for everyone when the picture with the big check and the Golden Shovel makes it in the paper.
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