The more a job requires soft skills and relationships the less likely it can be done well remote. Some jobs need that, some don't, it's going to take a while to figure it out and every company is going to figure out a different solution.
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The more a job requires soft skills and relationships the less likely it can be done well remote. Some jobs need that, some don't, it's going to take a while to figure it out and every company is going to figure out a different solution.
Our employees who most rely on soft skills and relationships are in sales, and that’s almost exclusively remote for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Sales gigs are traveling to see customers, trade shows, suppliers, HQ, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
Home office, but not what I consider remote.
We are all saying the same shit. But we should fight about it, TGR style.
We've already had 2 COVID refuge families sell and bounce from our 'hood. When Lumberg calls you back to the office, when the bills are do, sometimes that doesn't look like a choice.
Luck for me, this $120k deck can't be built remote. With the Karen's coming out in force to oppose a simple apartment complex with truly amazing classist entitled rage, it seems we are pretty committed to supply constraints.
It's starting to feel like a faux woke version of The Villages around here. The should call it The Enclaves, sounds exclusive...oh wait.
Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse
Yes, that’s all part of their role, but I’d guess about 80% of the time is spent in the home office for our guys/gals. They’re not door-to-door salesmen.Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile
Yes, supply will be constrained for a long time. That's why prices aren't dropping right now despite high interest rates, in most locations at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
The one long term thing that I keep thinking about is the Boomers. It's a huge generation and the oldest ones are now mid 70's. In the next 10 years they'll start passing away at an increasing rate or end up in nursing homes. That might finally unlock some supply, IMO. But in the meantime no one is building enough and no one with a 2.5% mortgage is that inclined to sell if they don't have to.
We've been waiting for the boomers to start downsizing for 10 years and we'll still be waiting another 10 at least.
Productivity, onboarding, training new staff are part of the issues with remote.
Another one is that these companies have huge amounts of capital tied up in commercial real estate.
Hybrid is fine. Couple days in the office wasting a couple extra hours on bullshit "collaboration" and "team strengthening" meetings and water cooler talk the big boss wants to see so I can get some actual work done at home where I don't have to get interrupted.
There is a time and place for in office work. It's not 40 hours a week. I've worked in enough in person jobs (construction, office, public sector, private sector) to know that just as much time gets wasted, it's just that instead of laundry its bullshitting about the football game or someone trying to pretend you are their therapist.
In other news, the headline in Oregon is that most renters don't make enough money to pay their rent and be considered financially stable. Median rent for a 2 bedroom is like $1800.
Not sure I buy the dead boomer relief arguments. In other news, here is an uncurated snip from today's Redfin feed.
Attachment 462062
No slow down in housing needs expected going forward:
Attachment 462063
More than you could ever care to know here:
https://www.urban.org/sites/default/...eownership.pdf
Agreed. For employees who had been with our company for a few years (no matter where they were on the seniority chart) the transition to WFH was pretty seamless and we dont have any issues with them, the work they do, or their ability to hit career goals. No matter their role, or level. Where WFH becomes a lot more difficult is for greenhorns, whether its they are new to the company, or new to the industry. Its much more difficult to train and mentor and get people up to speed when they or their manager/lead is WFH. Traditionally most people spent the first couple years kind of spinning their wheels and not really "getting it" and then it clicks and they make rapid improvement from there on. We are seeing it take a lot longer for it to click for a lot of people who are WFH or hybrid.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
sounds like a management problem. Instead of adapting to a new reality that’s popular and working for your employees, you complain that’s it’s not easy or familiar.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Same shit you tell us when things change.
Well, yeah its a management problem. Every problem is a management problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
And the WFH/Hybrid schedule isnt really working for a bunch of our younger employees as they are falling behind their peers who are in-person and learning and growing in their careers at a much quicker pace. At least that is what i see and hear in my particular industry.
I’m in manufacturing, working on somewhat complicated equipment.
I used to design the equipment but haven’t been in that role for over a decade. Even though I used to design the stuff, every time I go back on site I’m learning something new from seeing the equipment/processes in person because it’s always evolving.
Could you get it all while not being on site? Sure. But it’s harder. And it’s especially hard for someone trying to come in with no familiarity at all.
And we’re a pretty successful company with a long history of having remote workers, not one that’s just starting to figure it all out.
In my office, WFH hybrid is a privilege. If you aren't hitting your marks, its one of the first things to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Proximity bias is also real. Which is a management issue no matter what the level of the employee.
The beauty of hybrid is that the people that want to be in the office 5 days a week can do so. I haven't really seen an organization that has cracked the greenhorn/NG nut and how to get them up to speed. It sort of doesn't make sense to me, because what exactly is it that being in the office is offering? Lower friction walking across the cube farm hallway rather than a chat? Seems weird to me, but I'm not a person that learns by being talked at. It seems simple to me to look at the assigned work and just.....get it done. Office...coffee shop...beach...who cares?
I still think the current push for back in the office is related to commercial real estate and the desire to do a stealth lay off rather than an actual productivity thing.
I fought wildfires in some pretty remote places…
Yeah, yeah, I know.
Can you imagine the benefit of being able to just have a remote Finance Section Chief and then just "lose the connection" .....Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper
LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnew_guy
They'll kick and fight and claw at anything not to downsize, they want to age in place. That doesn't mean they won't eventually die, just like we all will.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain
I watched some of those fires burning from my home, so, I think it evens out in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper
That's kinda weird, 'cause who wants to maintain a big-ass house when they're 80? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenboy
For me, it’s not so much being able to interact with co-workers. It’s walking out on the shop floor and seeing what is being produced, prototyped, tested, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnew_guy
We’re a pretty big company, so there’s always tons of stuff going on.
A manager will try and make sure you’re aware of the critical things, but there’s just a ton of interesting things happening continuously.
Sort of related to the remote work discussion, this article made let know that I really am old.
What Gen Z wants in the workplace
I mean, I’d have liked those things too.Quote:
“I would like to be able to afford some things, but I don’t want to be attached to the material grind,” said Griffon Hooper, a University of San Diego graduate who is working at a dive shop while applying for jobs in his chosen field: nautical archaeology. “I’m not interested in sacrificing 30 years of my life for a handshake and a golden watch. And I don’t think a lot of people are anymore.”
“What Gen Z wants is to do meaningful work with a sense of autonomy and flexibility and work-life balance and work with people who work collaboratively,” said Julie Lee, director of technology and mental health at Harvard Alumni for Mental Health, and an expert on Gen Z health and employment. Gen Z is less afraid to ask for the things that everyone else really wants and needs, which sometimes is stereotyped at work as being entitled and narcissistic.
Would this go better in the old man yelling at clouds thread?
When I was that age I just wanted my band to make it
I pretty much just wanted to get laid.
What industry are you in? With slack and all the other tools available now it doesn’t seem that is should be distaste. Especially with digital natives. I went work from home 25 years ago when I joined a huge company w a shit dsl line and it was not that big a deal. The only real challenge was getting FaceTime with political fucksticks that wanted to keep it old school and never left HQQuote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
It’s a lot easier to get laid when you don’t work 60 hours a week in a cubicle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ötzi
This is the crux of the matter that is still being figured out. In the case of new hires (< two years), I think there is naturally going to be a much greater reluctance to seek answers and help when doing so requires an email, or a phone call, or a chat-- especially with somebody you may have never even met. It's just much quicker and easier to poke your head in somebody's office or cube and ask-- somebody you know, somebody you might get coffee or a beer with. So as a result, lots of institutional knowledge is lost, and the cumulative effect of this only becomes apparent after a number of years. We're at that point now, it would seem, given that some of the most successful companies in America are making a push to bring people back in. I don't personally believe it has anything to do with commercial real estate. I do think these companies feel like they have a bit more leverage after recent layoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnew_guy
Other than control and work force reduction I believe there are philosophical reasons. Look what remote work has done to sf and ny. Economic structures completely gutted; local money velocity gone. It may be the wrong ideal but I wouldn’t underestimate the macro reasoning. Mobility, even if it is forced, creates demand for services.
God please make them go back
Well, that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ötzi
‘Wanting the band to make it’ is just code for ‘hotter sex with hotter women, free drugs, and better hotels’.Quote:
Originally Posted by ötzi
(See Nickelback)
Just saw an ad from an old high school acquaintance advertising that her real estate company has partnered with a mortgage broker to allow you to put only 1% down as a first time home buyer. They will provide 2% as non repayable assistance (guessing any takers are getting hosed on the interest rate). Man if you can come up with 3% of a purchase price you shouldn’t be buying. I guess the end maybe near.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Sounds like a commission discount scheme.
That genie is never going back in the bottle.Quote:
Originally Posted by nest
We joked about buying a three bedroom for 760k on Wilson in 2016, a friend and I had the cash for a down payment. Should have done it.
Where I work remote is primarily a privilege for established employees who have some skillset we can’t easily hire off the street. They’ve mostly been people who did exactly what you did - moved and we made them remote to keep them. Good people are hard to find and nice to keep.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
A lot of it comes down to who you work with. Most of us here are pretty comfortable with expressing ourselves on a keyboard, and we’d probably be able to collaborate effectively on a project together and get to know each other and establish rapport. That is not my boss, though, so I’m in the office 4-5 days a week. Is what it is.
If people can fall in love online, they can do just about any job that doesn’t require lifting and carrying online. It’s just not for everybody.
As one of those soul sucking corpo bean counters I can guarantee you that it has nothing to do with commercial real estate. The savings on a commercial lease is peanuts compared to the potential of hiring a bunch’s of Gerrys from Kansas at half the big city rate. The problem is productivity loss and on boarding efficiency. Remote only results in a new employee taking twice as long to get up to speed (if they get up to speed at all) which is incredibly expensive and then the established employees almost universally regress in terms of productivity which costs even more, outside of sales guys who were home office based for the most part to begin with. A bad manager is a bad manager regardless of whether their staff is remote or not, but after three years it is almost a universal regression in production from employees that are fully remote. Upper management isn’t blind and sees everyone fucking off skiing on pow days. One missed impromptu zoom call and the gig is up.
That said, hybrid with shared workstations seems to be the sweet spot. 2-3 days remote keeps employees happy and allows them to do the more menial but necessary tasks and 2-3 days in the office keeps people accountable and production and advancement levels high.
...and this is what you want. If's you've got a high paying job in a location you want to live that probably has a high cost of living, you don't want the competition for your job to be able to live in Bangladesh or Tulsa. I know you think that your awesomeness will overcome and in the short term that may work on an individual basis but that's not sustainable.Quote:
That said, hybrid with shared workstations seems to be the sweet spot. 2-3 days remote keeps employees happy and allows them to do the more menial but necessary tasks and 2-3 days in the office keeps people accountable and production and advancement levels high.
There are certainly jobs that can be largely remote. One's I know of are financial analyst, medical imaging reader and construction estimator. But same goes, I'd be proactively looking to schedule in person team meetings, lunch reviews with my boss, trips to introduce myself to new hires and so on. Not because it is necessary or valuable, but because this work this is a fucking game and that's part of playing the game to win.
For the record, I’ve never just ghosted work for a powder day. I have taken PTO on short notice for a powder day.
If you’re not actually at your computer doing your work, that’s going to catch up with you. (I’d hope. Bad sign for the company’s future if you can get away with it.)
For a long time I’ve told people my ideal situation would be two days in the office, three at home. If my office was only a 10-15 minute commute, not 30 minutes, or an hour, or on the other side of the country in a city I don’t want to live near.
So our company actually has offices in China, with Chinese engineers in the same role as me. Has been that way for 10+ years. No sign of a threat for them displacing our North American or European counterparts in any way. It just doesn’t work like that, at least for our organization, and our business.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
If I worked for a company that required ‘playing the game’ like you’re suggesting, I’d be looking for a new place of employment.