Wait, so why did you move to and live in that mountain/resort town in the first place? It wasnt for the easy access to your adrenaline junky hobby?
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Was drinking wine with a neighbor the other night and we were discussing my belief that the teachers, fireman, EMTs, accountants, town clerks, social workers, retail managers, etc, etc should be able to afford to live where they work and not have to drive 30-60 minutes to live in the hood. He looked at me like I was crazy and said that is how it has always been. "Never have lower income people been able to live in expensive areas" and you know, he is right. My single mom couldn't afford to have us live in the Hollywood Hills where many of my friends lived. No, we were down in the hood and we both worked damn hard to move up eventually.
Sure I am sad my kids will never be able to afford where we live, but hey, they didn't bust their asses to be a surgeon, pilot or top notch attorney either. (what most of my neighbors are) so ya, it sucks but that is how it has always been. Flame suit on.
Everyone talks about the “entitlement” of the poor for wanting livable wages and a life outside of work, but nobody talks about the entitlement of the 1% to assume people want to drive an hour each way to make their coffees, and teach their spoiled kids, and plow their roads. Why is nature and beauty only for the wealthy? Why are hobbies only okay if you’re exploiting other people and not for the exploited?
They should absolutely be able to earn comfortably liveable wages and have a wonderful life outside work. And they can. It just wont be a 5 minute ebike ride from and Epic resorts chairlift. But the entitled people want to earn a comfortably liveable wage and have a wonderful life outside of work... but it also HAS to be in one of the most affluent desirable places in the world. That last part is what smells of entitlement.
If you can only find nature and beauty in an area with Ikon and Epic, then you aren't in it for the nature and beauty. Plenty of affordable places with great beauty and wonderous nature.
How many kids do you have? Or how about how many kids do you know and I mean really know at 17, 18, 19yrs that are willing to move to the middle of nowhere (and yeah, I-da-ho is the middle of nowhere if your some random kid in NH) away from their family to work, rent, and live for a year just to get instate tuition? Can it be done? Sure. Only by an extreme minority. Hence, not reality.
I actually know a number of kids who have done exactly that, including my good friend's son who is graduating this year. He's moving to AZ to work and (heaven forbid) going to community college to get residency and save money so he can go to ASU. My niece did the same thing moving from AZ to UT.
Just because it doesn't happen in your friend group in NE doesn't mean it doesn't happen regularly. I didn't think it was a western thing, but maybe it is?
He's actually going from ID to AZ. He can afford to stay home and go to at a state school. That's missing the point. He wants to go to AZ and made a plan so he can make it work financially. You know, weighing tradeoffs and figuring out options so he can live and go to school where he wants.
Seattle and Steamboat have about equal median home prices at the moment (around $700k). But here's what Seattle's new public housing looks like:
Attachment 458742
And here is Steamboat's at Brown Ranch:
Attachment 458743
If housing prices in mountain towns is just as expensive as in the big city, I don't see how building sprawling, low level public housing will work out. The cost for each low income unit in Steamboat has to be ten times each unit as in Seattle. How is that sustainable? Mountain towns might have been able to get away with developing that way back when land was cheap, but now land is big city prices (without the big city wages to go with it).
None. A few.
But really, "Poor kids go to work, poor kids go to war". How many kids join the military because that is their best option? I think entitlement and wealth disparity have already been mentioned. Bitching about the cost of in-state tuition but then saying a four year state university that would save a kid $50k for a degree but they have to work a year first in the the middle of "nowhere" is something someone who can afford to pay more but doesn't like it would do. Maybe I'm wrong.
I'm not trying to sell it, there's already plenty of people moving here. More bewildered that I'm out of reality when the school here is $50k cheaper than your in-state and there's 1,800 vert of lift served skiing 16 miles from campus that operates 12 hours a day for more than 100 days a year and we're discussing it on a ski forum. Kid just has to work 12 months first instead of going to college for 5-6 years because they spent the first 1-2 picking a major because they lacked adult life experience.
Quite a tangent...at least when fastfred leaves the trail it's about banging tourists...sorry. I'm not that interesting.
Has zero to do with my friend group. For the general population I don't see that as common place. Most kids, and certainly not all, are not mature enough to do a big move at 18yrs. My youngest possibly would have, but my oldest, no way. Moving one state away, especially in the west, is not a big deal. Moving a state or two away in the Northeast doesn't save you much $. So you know two kids and I know zero. Sample study done. Another problem solved on trg
^As a native EC'er I've also never heard of anyone doing that. Not to say it hasn't been done, and actually sounds like a pretty good idea, but I wouldn't call it common by a long shot.
I thought that schools made it hard to get residency for undergrads if their out of state parents were still supporting them. Has that changed? Or are some schools easier and some harder?
And I too don't know anyone who has ever done that.
I was literally the only single person in my freshman college dorm who moved themselves in alone without their parents. This was in-state on-campus housing 23 years ago, and school was an 8-hr drive from my hometown and 3-4 hours for almost everyone else. So yeah, I'll agree that in 2023 very, very few kids are moving multiple states away, getting an apartment solo, and working a regular job for a year so they can maybe qualify for in-state tuition a year plus down the road.
Lots of states and schools out West have tuition reciprocity. Most people I went to high school with in Oregon went to either U of O, Montana, or Montana St all on in state tuition. But the rules are always changing and it varies by state and even sometimes school specific.
I was able to establish in state residency to grad school after paying only one year of out of state tuition. No working requirement. I took summer school credits, which cost the same regardless of in or out of state and lived the requisite amount of time to establish residency by the end of summer (1.5 years in but only 1 of those on out of state rates). But I don't think the rules are as generous as they once were. This is the university choice thread, right?
I moved to Montana from Wisconsin by myself, and without parents going with me, to go to college and establish residency for a year when I was 18. Never went home for summers and never understood why people would, they must have had family they liked or they didn't like full time jobs and wanted to fuck off all summer. I wasn't aware at the time what I was doing was rare.
New problems involve new ways of thinking. You can't bitch about the cost of 4 year college without considering the alternatives. You can't bitch about the cost of mountain town living without considering the alternatives.
Just because something isn't common and you don't know people that have done it doesn't make it a bad idea.
When I was at CU it was very difficult unless you were over 23 years old.
If you were under 23, you couldn't have any support from your parents including no parental health insurance, no financial support of any kind, etc.
There was one guy that I met in my entire time at CU that was able to establish residency for himself. He had a unique situation in that he had a falling out with his parents so he legitimately didn't have any support or even contact with them.
Maybe it has changed since then. I certainly hope so because my degree program at CU is now $64k per year for out of state students.
Looks like it is now $37k per year for in state students. What. The. Fuck?
I believe it is still that way in CO. If you are under 23 you can't receive any support. The health insurance thing might have changed though.
Getting in state tuition explicitly saves that person a substantial amount of money, at a minimum 50% and in many states substantially more. Definitely not "twice as expensive".
Careful with all that young and responsible stuff else they will throw you on Team Bootstraps. I have a friend group of parents with college age kids and the experiences and choices varies quite a bit. I will say that the whole idea of just going to a four year school to grow up seems pretty uncommon except for those with pretty deep pockets.
But to bring it back to real estate, I know a bunch of 20 somethings living in places like Des Moines, Grand Junction, Laramie and so on that have purchased real estate, have good jobs and are generally enjoying life.
"No one wants to be a teacher."
Also, if you want to not be in a soulcrushing amount of debt you should take a year out of your life to avoid in state tuition on your way to that advanced degree so you can teach spoiled brats and have to deal with some lunatic parent ranting about culture war bullshit. Oh, and you won't be able to afford anything resembling the middle class lifestyle of 30 years ago.
I'm sure this is going to work out well for us.
Edit - I'm also curious about these people just moving to another state for residency. Are they getting a enrollment deferment or are they just banking on the fact that they will get into their selected institution?
Gap year seems like a good idea to me as someone who took a gap decade between degrees and found the second round much more fulfilling.
Super interesting* seeing the it's too crowded / people won't stop moving here / this place is changing / can you believe that guy didn't say hi to me camp evangelize the benefits of mobility.
*Not really.
I really think people overstate just how "easy" life was for prior generations in a lot of ways.
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
They're called choices. We all have more options than we are generally willing to consider. One of which is that will can fucking move. Despite the fact that I'm not a fan of some of the changes around here, its the best option for me right now.
What's this thred about?
Here I am today being a remote wfh worker in a place that is the butt of all jokes for every wanna be pretenda colorado local life is good as usual
But I'd shoot my eye out before moving away from the Intermountain west
And I'm reading Cadillac desert right now and its pretty disturbing
The take away is Vegas Phoenix salt lake denver and everyone else should pack their bags and gtfo not to mention southern California meanwhile I'm listening to this chick talk about how much oil and gas they can suck out of the ground in Iraq w out getting lynched by the kurds what a world we live in
If somebody who lives in another state is claiming you as a dependent, you will not get in-state tuition these days.
My wife (then GF) got a deferment from CU for her grad program when she was 21. We lived in Breck for a year while she emancipated herself from her parents and was able to establish CO residency for the 2nd semester of her 3yr grad program. Saved a ton. The emancipation took some effort, but the year off also gave her a different perspective and attitude from having spent a small amount of time as a semi-adult. The kids rolling into her program, 2-3 weeks after graduating undergrad had a strange, earnest energy.
I’d like to how many people who live in paradise that don’t even use or appreciate the paradise. The ones who party, watch sports, play video games, and hang out in bars as their hobbies. Kick those fuckers over to the Midwest.