benny,
if you spent 1/100th of the time and effort employed posting financial apocalype threads in TGR forums in the real world making moves you (should) be a wealthy man and not give a damn. you are the epitome of interweb mental masturbation.
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benny,
if you spent 1/100th of the time and effort employed posting financial apocalype threads in TGR forums in the real world making moves you (should) be a wealthy man and not give a damn. you are the epitome of interweb mental masturbation.
Soon to be ex hedge fund employee?
His bitterness stems from his inability to ever land a wall street job and the fact that he was caught with his pants down during the tech bubble. Nothing more than jealousy, its equal parts sad and pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnwriter
ha ha! the pavlovian new yorker response to attack is strong in you, benny!Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
i never was a PEG / HF employee FWIW.
maybe you just need to disengage and get outside (or something)...mountain therapy can provide great perspective!
Never tried to work down there, and my pants were nailed to the floor during that tech bubble burst by the lying scumbags who ran my company, a la Enron.Quote:
Originally Posted by CUBUCK
I'll take that steak medium rare with a fine Cabernet.
Whenever you want to come in let me knowQuote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Sounds like the housewife special.Quote:
Originally Posted by rideit
What do you call a guy with a briefcase who's more than 25 miles from home?
An expert.
Probably a good business move for someone with a stable firm in this market... If you can capture those agents who are able to withstand this market now, when the market turns around your company market share should vastly improve. But I've gotten phone calls, emails, letters, and lots and lots of offers of lunch just for talking for decades now (never took a free lunch) from everyone trying to boost the size of their office, so not exactly new. The difference at this time, if other offices are closing, people who want to stay in the business will actually HAVE to move somewhere else. In fact, seeing as you got this email, maybe they know something about your firm you don't? Either way, no way a simple real estate office could handle the volume of web traffic with you posting on TGR during floor time, no way! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by rideit
As a real estate agent, I have paid attention to the different plans I've read over the last months to somehow "solve" our current real estate and economic melt down... But it's always been hard to see how we figure out some starting point; we need a resurgent economy to revive sagging housing prices, but as housing prices keep sagging the effects on the economy just get worse. It's like a death spiral right now... I know some say, let it all melt down! But that would lead to many million more Americans who didn't make any poor decisions getting hurt, and as I just mentioned, when and where would some downward tumbling melt down actually stop?
So it seems we should do something, the question STILL is: exactly what?
-The "toxic debt" buy out/bail out didn't seem to have a real connection to what I do and any link to improving real estate was very tangential at best.But these plans, and pretty much every other one that has been proposed, all cost the tax payers big time when the tax payer really did nothing wrong here.
-The big bank capital infusion/warrant equity position seems to be aimed at specifically solving the interbank lending freeze. Again, I suppose you need that working to have any hope of a real estate recovery, but not a specific direct link that somehow helps the person who is now upside down on their mortgage, and then looses their job or has a health issue.
-McCains plan to buy all the bad mortgages for full price, then lower the balance owed by the homeowner and refinance thru the government is a classic corporate give away, and gives financial benefits to people who may have made poor decisions, while doing nothing for the frugal saving owners or renters.
-Obama's plan of Jobs, middle class tax cuts, mortgage term modification, a 10% mortgage interest credit, and a 3 month foreclosure moratorium seems to have some good ideas, but again gives rewards to mostly those who may have made poor decisions.
I've just read about a plan that at first had me scratching my head, well... guess I am still at that stage, but thought I'd cut and paste sections of it and see if anyone else has heard of OTHER plans that seem workable, or what their thoughts are on this rather unusual one;
Quote:
Originally Posted by alternet.org
The full plan in an 8 page pdf format is here; http://www.westwoodcapital.com/opini...overy_plan.pdf
A reply by the plans author to some feedback from this blogs readers is here; http://executivesuite.blogs.nytimes....pert-responds/ Edit: This part really worth a read too!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvwcom
Why would it hurt those who didn't make poor decisions?
And it will stop "melting down" when prices come down to the historical mean, or, in other words, there is a sane relationship of house prices to income. Any attempt to elevate them above that line will be futile, and downright wrong, if taxpayer money is involved.
wait...what? Have you never accepted an offer to meet over lunch or have you just insisted on paying? Do realtors not get to expense schmoozing? Or maybe you're not broke...even though you ski? (scratch that last one--unpossible)Quote:
Originally Posted by timvwcom
I'm also curious how a total meltdown would hurt those who assumed mortgages they could handle and can keep their jobs...or maybe that's the issue; more job losses?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Just read what you posted, not the full transcript of his ideas.
Major problem is Banks have zero interest or motivation in becoming apartment owners/operators/managers which is what he would essentially be doing. If the deed goes back to the bank, they will then in turn sell it on to someone who wants to perform that function in the market. Banks capital and operational structures are not set up to hold large pools of physical properties. It would a non-performing loan, which Banks typically want to get rid of because they have to hold significant amounts of capital against as opposed to a performing loan which they only need to hold a sliver of capital against.
Since this has been coined the "slumlord appreciation thread" I thought I'd go ahead and post a few pics of the place we completed renovating today. Especially whereas I've weighed in so heavily with first person accounts all along the way.
I haven't tried to go get a new loan in the last 4 weeks or so, but previous to that lending has still been working for me. I do always bring 20% down, but I'm an investor (not occupying, see: red flag).
Last month I bought 3 houses. The climate has still been perfection for what I do (although we'll see next time I need a loan). This house was purchased in a two home deal. I paid 118K for both properties (this is the smaller of the two). I got 3K back as my commission. So by the time you deduct the commission and split the cost between the two homes I paid a total of 57,500 for this house. It cost less than 5K to remodel (including appliances). But I did have to put 3 weeks of full-time work into the property (I have two guys working for me now so we move quickly, I also sub out certain projects). So the price tag for this 3 bed 1 bath home came to less than 63K:
Slum photo 1:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1225161452
2:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1225161452
3:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1225161452
4:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1225161452
5:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1225161452
I figure I'll rent the place for $775 a month. I feel really good about working on houses like this. We take properties that have been vacant for years and bring them back to life. We provide very nice housing at affordable prices. We get these properties off the bank's/investment group's books and we do alright for ourselves at the same time. :D
I'm hoping to wrap up the next property in roughly 3-4 weeks. The third home is having the exterior work done right now (paint, new roof) and then we'll work on it a few hours here and there through the winter after skiing.
looking great man. i really like how the inlaid floor turned out.
Thanks. Yeah, we lucked out on this one. I can't believe how easy the wood was to restore since it hadn't been painted. The floors were just sanded and then urethaned. No stain at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by kokomas
I got outbid on a mansion a year ago that I'd like to call my own home at some point. It had this same type of wood work but 5,000 square feet of it. It was bought by investors who completely stalled out. They haven't done shit in over a year. After seeing how this renovation went I'm even hungrier to try and get the big place again. I recently put in a call to the owner's. If I can sell my Denver place I'll definitely make a push for the mansion. :D
Lets say someone decided back in 2005 they'd like to buy a home as they have their first kid on the way. They've put their finances in order, payed off the credit cards, saved up some money, then looked long and hard and found a nice home on a nice block in a nice community. Lets say they had a decent 15% down payment, steady employment, and buy well within their means. They can even save some each month for a rainy day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
They've been good homeowners and keep the place painted, clean and the grass cut. Always pay the mortgage on time, still doing well keeping other debt down... until someone gets let go/laid off/plant closes (and looses their health care too), or works commission in a business that is hammered by the down economy, or has a medical issue (like cancer or ???) that costs them money and means they can't work. Now what?
Sure, they go look for a new job if they were out of work... maybe the economy is shit here, after several months they look farther afield and finally find a decent job in a different state. Problem is, home has depreciated 20% since they bought it, meaning they are 5% upside down, plus it's tough to sell in a market like this without paying a real estate commission of say 6% more for 11% total. What do they do? They've spent thru most of their smallish savings making do during the job hunt, they don't have the cash to "pay" to get rid of the home, but can stay living here as there is no job.
They did everything right, and still could loose the home... right? And there are millions of these type of people right now. Now imagine that same homeowner, but without the hope of a new job to start rebuilding their life. They've lost the home, the health care, the savings, and have no see no improvement coming anytime soon. Millions and millions are closer to this than you imagine. In many states the percent of late/delinquent mortgage payments is in the 5% to 10% range right now. It will probably get worse before it gets better.
On the market equilibrium... look at the stock market, do you see any equilibrium there? Markets run on confidence, remove the confidence and you will see free fall. Sure, eventually the economy picks back up and new jobs and income raises on the plus side, and prices low enough to temp people back to buying again and values will rise once again... but without the jobs part, there just aren't enough "investors" to "catch" something as heavy as a free falling real estate market. It's very common for markets to swing back and forth in over corrections. Letting the housing market swing too far down starts to put tens and tens of millions more people in the same scenario our young family above just went thru, especially as the housing market tends to feed the economy. Starve the housing market and the economy sheds jobs, which starves the housing market more, which causes more jobs loses, etc.
No... never accepted a free lunch offer for a recruiting call. Keep in mind that in real estate we agents are really interviewing the companies we'd work for. Companies are whores, they'll accept pretty much anyone they think might be able to make a living. There are a few exceptions, the 100% companies (RE/MAX and Realty Executives) are usually not looking to hire agents without a number of years of experience. The agents there pay monthly and/or per transaction, instead of doing the typical commission split.Quote:
Originally Posted by khakis
I have certainly purchased a great many lunches over the years for customers (or clients), and they will often return the favor... same with friends of course. But I really don't hang out with any other real estate agents, we are all a bunch of losers. Besides, they'd probably never want to buy or sell a house with me anyway. :p
(on your last question; most years I am unpoor. I had $45K in my checking account this time last year to get me thru the slow winter months, I'm down to squat in my checking and going to have to start hitting my longer term assets = don't want to do it! If my phone doesn't start ringing soon, I'm thinking of starting another business to do in the meantime or get a part time job, it doesn't make sense to burn thru assets just sitting on my ass.)
See above... job loses are exactly the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by khakis
Obviously not my plan, but I'll argue that side just cuz I like arguing. If this real estate/financial/economic crash gets much worse, and banks have to start marking their loan assets down or off because of foreclosures they will be in deep shit. All these Banks are highly leveraged (ask Spats ;)) and there is a point at which they are upside down and the Feds step in and close them down. So if it really becomes a Hobson' choice, and is not between a) doing business as they use to and b) becoming landlords -BUT- was between 1) becoming insolvent and being closed/sold/out of a job and 2) participating in a Federal program that allowed them to transfer that loan asset to a rental asset with tax breaks and other methods of keeping them in business... they might have a different take on it?Quote:
Originally Posted by comish
Love the photos of all your places BTW. Keep them coming!Quote:
Originally Posted by meatdrink9
A couple quick questions, for the $5,500 my math sez you have spent on the rehab... can I ask about what part you spend where??? I see;
----see----
1) updated kitchen: cabinets and 24" CT counter tops, hardware, sink faucet, refrig, stove?, dw?, (maybe some electrical?), new floor.
2) LR/DR: new fireplace/AFP surround and hearth, (existing FP door thingy?), sanded/poly floors, curtains/hardware, painting job, (maybe poly on wood baseboards/trim?).
----can't see----
3) Bath(s): ?
4) Bedrooms: ?
5) Mechanicals: ?
6) Exterior (roof/paint/trim/storms/walks/drive/garage): ?
7) Other: ?
As specific/general as you'd like. If too many questions, I'd appreciate at least a quick snippet of how/what you are doing where. As I've mentioned above I'm looking at getting off my ass and getting info on what my choices are. You can go PM if you don't to put out too much here for any reason.
Thanks.
hey md9, place looks great, care to post some before pictures?
No they didn't. They overpaid way too much for the house.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvwcom
What are you saying? The government has an obligation to control the housing market with price controls? So ...... where has the government been for the past decade when prices went through the roof in most markets? Shouldn't they have been controlling that absurd inflation? Nope, didn't hear a peep on that one. How about all the people who sat on the sidelines and said "no fucking way I'm paying 600000 for a shit shack that sold for 200000 just 4 years ago. I'm waiting for the market to come back to reality." And where does your line of thinking take you? Oh, boo hoo, poor little family can't sell their used piggish SUV for a "fair" price, let's help them out by propping up the price of that item because, hey, life ain't fair? Please.
Tim you left out the ARM issue, which seems, to me, to be a pretty important component. This is the component that drives me crazy because even people who kept their jobs and made their payments and didn't have extenuating circumstances that they couldn't cover are falling short when their ARM adjusts, and unable to refi due to lack of equity in the home.
MD that place looks so kickass, nice job. Speaking of your Denver house, a place about a block from both our places sold for cash recently after 1 day on the market and the buyer started tearing right into it for a high-end remodel. The neighborhood's starting to get hot! No doubt yours will sell soon.
Benny, first... my attempt here is NOT to change your opinion on this market crash/correction, but I do think "wisdom" settles on the side of doing something to try and moderate the worst effects which result from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Your comments of "paying 600000 for a shit shack that sold for 200000 just 4 years ago" is clearly based on your experiences "embedded" :tongue: in the East Coast market. Some other markets thruout the country (esp. California) have also experienced either the wild double digit appreciation and/or huge initial entry price you have out there. BUT, most of the country had neither... Many places that had steady 4, 5, 6 percent appreciation per year have fallen 20 to 30 percent to levels from the early part of the 2000's. At the time that individual couple in my example purchased their house, they paid the "market" rate. I don't think it is realistic to think that a simple consumer in a middle America market SHOULD have seen something like this coming, in a "big picture" sense, that even Alan fucking Greenspan didn't see.
In fact, even if many people were prescient and saw this coming 2 or 4 or 6 years ago, housing is like musical chairs... people need places to live. There just aren't enough apartments for EVERYONE. After several percent tried to shift out of their houses, the apartments would all be full, the real estate market would be saturated with too many properties and values would have fallen from oversupply/lack of demand and we'd be in a similar situation as now. Perhaps with less fallback, but all that is just supposition.
On your comment about the Government's lack of earlier action to avert this crisis in the first place... Sure, I'd bet just about everyone NOW feels like that would have been a great idea. But we are experiencing what may be the end of the last generation's attempt to adopt the Reaganomics trickle down deregulation meme. Certainly the point some make about the interest rate being jiggered as an artificial means to pump up the housing market/economy has merit, I think Alan Greenspan and maybe even the Fox Business News crew would give you that now.
But the problem is HERE AND NOW, not 5 years ago or 20 years ago. All the wishing in the world won't stop this run away freight train. Hopefully we'll relearn the regulation lessons of the Great Depression in a way that holds for more than 75 years this time... But I am certain we also have an obligation to fight our way out of it like the 1930's. We have the luxury now to observe the similarities between the causes of these two problems, and by studying what they did right/wrong to avoid the shoals they foundered on for the Hoover years. No matter what we do, it will cost big bucks at this point.
You had the good fortune, looking back, of a kick in the ass regards home ownership. I'd bet some not small portion of your spot on early vision of this problem was focused by that experience. But we all couldn't have followed the path you did, it just wouldn't have worked out. Hey, are you still getting satisfaction of knowing the ex has the house, or has she already sold it and moved on?
The ARM issue is somewhat more complicated IMHO. I'd say you could simplify it into two major groups, with some stuff muddled in between. You had the traditional 1 or 3 year ARMs, with rates only modestly below the 30 year rate and with pretty responsible qualifying to account for future upward adjusting rates. THEN you had the "predator" type ARM loans, low teaser interest rates that were bound to make moderate to large jumps, that used little or no part of those impending interest rate increases in the process of qualifying for the loan. I think the first type, though riskier, were and are a reasonable way for lenders to share the risks and rewards of rising and falling interest rates. But obviously the second "sub prime" version of the ARM was fucked up from the get go. Of course, there are some people stuck in that gray area in between...Quote:
Originally Posted by khakis
Waaaaah, waaaaah, waaaaah.
I had to watch and listen to SEVEN F$%^% YEARS of people strutting around like toy soldiers because their house was going up 15-20% a year and their HELOC paid for new granite countertops and an SUV and new furniture and I was such a BIG FAT LOSER for renting a place I could actually afford and not having a new kitchen and a new car, because they were flipping properties every two years and GETTING RICH RICH RICH for doing nothing at all.
Seriously: when it came out that I was renting my house, they'd look at me with amused pity. Like I just admitted I had an extra chromosome and it was cool that I could walk and chew gum and all, but I definitely wasn't a Real Person, because Real People owned property and were all getting rich off it and I was just a poor retard whose sofa and TV didn't each cost as much as a decent used car.
So now they have to listen to renters gloat for a few years because we were smart enough not to pay too much for a house, and to realize that this credit party would eventually result in a big debt hangover.
Cry me a river.
I don't care if you paid 20% down and never missed a payment and now you're laid off. A house is an investment as well as a place to live, and I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYING OFF YOUR BAD INVESTMENT. You don't pay my margin call when I lose money in stocks and have to pay rent, I don't pay your mortgage when your house goes down in value and you can't make that payment because you thought you'd have a two-earner household forever. Take your lumps and rent within your means like the rest of us.
Try it man, just have patience, like I did and others. The runaway freight train I witnessed of obscenely priced homes in the NY Metro area and western ski areas has come to a halt. And backing up. It works, the wishing, I mean. Prices will "stabilize", trust me. But not for a while. You and America just have to deal with it. Oh, and I'm not happy the wife got the co-op, because we got it at an incredible price after the last housing crash (that's why I never fell for the "housing ALWAYS goes up, dude" argument. I've seen 2 or three big drops in my lifetime in a few markets). That place will probably never go underwater from the original price I paid, but I heard she's driving around in an Escalade and dressing really well, so I'm pretty sure it's heavily leveraged. Too fucking bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvwcom
Your little story about the hypothetical family out there is a hoot. I could almost hear Timmy on the back porch calling for Lassie to come home. C'mon, you know that odds are very high that any home bought in '05 was bought with a subprime instrument with very little if no money down at all. With minimal paperwork. And, Tim, I like you, but it was in your self interest as a salesman to keep that thing churning, right? Because you got the 6% every time that mortgage got approved, right? Well, party over.
And apartment living ain't that bad. One excellent feature of the life is mobility. Renters aren't tied down to the house, so they're going to get the job across country in the new recession because they can. Home owners are stuck. And don't get me going how much more "Green" multi unit dwellings are in the 21st century. Talk to any New Yorker about that. They don't even need cars. Maybe the rest of the country should take notice. But I doubt that will happen.
grapedrink, I know it's a crime, but I haven't taken "before" pics of anything other than my own homes. The list of tasks to tackle is usually so large The last thing I want to do is add another task. Also, some cities require permits for stuff as simple as hanging a light fixture. I figure I might be incriminating myself as we go pretty all out.
Khaki, thanks for the update. I'd love for it to sell before my cap gains window closes. Fingers crossed.
timvw,
1. The new cabinets were already there. Someone started a remodel and either ran out of steam and or money. The counters were formica. We can buy 18" travertine stone for $2 per square foot. I have all the tools and two other guys who I've taught to handle most any type of job. We laid all of the stone for the bath surround, counter, fireplace, and kitchen floor in under two days. The fridge and stove came to just under 1k delivered. Purchased through Best Buy. Faucet was $100. Cabinet hardware was roughly $40. We ran two new outlets. We closed up a doorway and got rid of plumbing for the washer (in the kitchen, wtf?).
2. You nailed it. Less than $100 worth of stone. Curtains from Target (I get 20% off, wife is a pharmacist there). Curtain rods from Ikea ($15). The cast iron metal stuff was there. The wood work was there (we just restained, urethaned everything). One of my guys did the cut-in sanding with a belt sander, the other used the large drum sander (which we rent, $100 with belts). Roughly $100 for urethane and stain. $20-$30 light fixtures also from Ikea. I do hadn finished walls with a 3 inch paint brush. It turns out pretty cool and I'm crazy fast. I didn't even tape off a single one of those moldings.
3. New stone bath surround (a couple hundred bucks). New shower valve, head etc... around $100. New faucet $30. Towel/TP rods $30 (also Ikea). I'll post a couple of pics of the other stuff.
4. They just needed a sanding/painting, light fixtures, updated closet rods etc... Pretty cheap. I always buy places with wood flooring. I don't have a single rental property with carpet. Carpet always get's ruined. Hardwood is easy to refinish and cheap if it's already there. If it's not there we lay bamboo and in kitchens/baths we lay stone.
5. Some ducts needed to be reattached. A couple of gas lines needed work as did some plumbing. I spent about $250 with a plumber for the gas work. The plumbing and electrical we can handle pretty quickly.
6. I've been hiring out exteriors to contractors for crazy cheap lately. This one had a great roof and the exterior is brick so I lucked out. Other places I have been getting 3-color paint jobs for around $1200. I've been getting full roof tear-offs/and replacements for roughly 3K.
7. The cost of labor (the guys who work with me).
8. The key to my success has been financing. I pay cash for a place (say 50k). I then sink 10K and then pull 70K out. The house appraises for 115K. I end up with 10K more in my pocket then when I started. 45K in equity for a month's work and then I get an $300-$500 a month in cash flow as well. Plus I think I'm in one of the few undervalued areas and see some serious appreciation potential. If the properties I've purchased in this town only ever got to the point that they were worth $100 per sq ft. (can't build for that). I'd have amassed over 1.5 mil in equity in under two years. That doesn't even count the cash flow. I'm just starting to hit stride now. Hopefully financing still works for me. I got my loan officer's license to help with that. Also, If I sell my Denver place I'll get another 200K to go play with. Leveraged that's another mil worth of real estate to go and play this same game with.
I'm working in the little town that Salomon, Atomic, DNA, Suunto, Nidecker, and Goode, all call their North American HQ. There are numerous other ski companies in town that handle smaller portions of their operations from here. I recently just finished a commercial property in town as well. I'm hoping to try and get more design work from some of these guys. We helped one company on that list with a shoe line this year.
This next part isn't directed at anyone in particular just a bit about where I came from and how I ended up here. I'm about to go on a serious tangent.
A lot of the oldtimers on this board remember when I first signed on here. My wife and I shared a beat to shit Chevy Corsica. I built all of my own furniture from broken pallets left behind dumpsters. I was 21 years old and we both had good degrees.
I lost my job after 911 and got a huge wake-up call. I was ontop of my game as a designer at the best agency in town. I found myself out of work. WTF!?! After that I quit counting on employers. When we couldn't sell our home when we relocated to St. Louis we rented it. It was the best thing that ever happened to us. We sold it last year for a profit of 110K. We would've been walking with 10-15K if we'd been able to sell when we left. Investing in real estate has definitely changed our lives. So while the sky may be falling there are certainly opportunities out there. Having the rug pulled out from under me 7 years ago woke me up and got me working towards financial freedom and allows me to ski as much as I want. I'm only 30 years old. My wife only works two days a week now. Hopefully others who'll soon find themselves in the same place I did 7 years ago will get mad/motivated and step up. You've got your own back. No one else.
My wife was a pharmacist and I was an Art director. We shared a Chevy Corsica and lived with recycled pallet furniture from dumpsters (still have the furniture). You don't need all the shit. Save your money and free yourself from the corporate shackles. My money is now my employer if I blow it all on the random shit the TV told me I need I've just fired myself. Most of the Short Sale situations I walk into the people sitting on the couch have nice huge plasma TV's, playstations, rims on the cars, empty pizza boxes in the kitchen, etc...
Yo MD9, got more info on the property you're trying to sell in Dtown?
Way to hook that house up to the juvenation machine MD9. Very nice.
Hey Benny,
What the hell is the Geneve Corporation?
That place looks like the front for a CIA black ops department. You in on that deal?
Here are photos if you'd like:Quote:
Originally Posted by P_McPoser
www.theconveyer.com/house.zip
www.theconveyer.com/loft.zip
PM me if you want to get into specifics. I'm actually letting it go for what I think is a crazy good deal, but I can do a lot more with the money closer to home and this is the time for me to get out to avoid taxes. Great cost per square foot, two full lots, fully fenced yard, two car garage, two full stainless kitchens, 5 beds, 4 baths etc... I'm dropping the price to 329,900 on November 1st. I only owe 108K. We bought well, worked hard and have owned for 5 years on a 15 year mortgage so even at that price we come out just fine.
I don't have a clue. But they let me walk through the property every lunch hour without releasing the hounds. Nice view.
md9, thanks for all the time to fill those blanks in!!!!!! :yourock: Kind of what I had in mind back in my 20's, but I had planned to start with 4 family properties. But, life (read wife, 4 kids by time I was 30, growing a business) got in the way of my "real estate magnate" plans. Glad to see you are well on your way! (I've not given up BTW, at 45 I still have some good years left in me... and looks like I might have a big change in family status coming up sooner than I expected myself??? So who knows where life leads?)
On the subprime guess, not so... I sold at least a couple dozen homes each of those years and I had only a couple buyers (as in 2) total who used anything like zero down deals, and 1 of my buyers was a newly graduated Pharmacist with a great new job, so not a typical type zero down buyer. There was one buyer (was my seller), where the numbers were messed with at the closing table to get some credits to be utilized and I do remember walking away thinking the loan officer and agent were just somehow suspicious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
I do have to admit that like 80+ percent of my business is $300K to $850K and generally with buyers who are well employed, Physicians, business owners, corporate executives, and the like. And although I have sales in 47 of the metro Milwaukee municipalities now, most of my business is in the top 1/3rd of the communities/suburbs as described by price/school districts/appeal etc. (And unfortunate as it may be, this is what's killing my business right now. The mid $200's and lower are still seeing some activity, the $300K+ stuff is mostly dead = Tim's not making much money these last couple months. :mad:)
I'm sure there are LOTS of agents who did tons of these sub-prime deals here in SE WI in the less expensive areas or um, executive affluent/executive areas of town??? But in the conservative Midwest, I'd guess the percent of "sub prime" loans was WAY below the overall US average of 30% of the market from 2004 to 2006. So your implied contention that most of the people with trouble have sub-prime loans is no longer true, now that the price drop has gone way deep into the double digits nearly across the board.
Some very good points! But I'd still want most people to someday buy a place once they've put down some roots and will stay several years. For many Americans their home is about the only retirement planning they end up doing, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Thanks for the info...drop it to around 250 and let me know ;)
Awesome place, but def out of our price range.
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Originally Posted by meatdrink9
Reality is its going to be #1. There will be a lot of banks closed/sold/etc in this cycle. Brutal, but reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvwcom
Looking likely I'm SOL next week so I'm getting fucked as well
This needs to be quoted, emphasized, and re-read.Quote:
Originally Posted by meatdrink9
"My money is now my employer...if I blow it all on the random shit the TV told me I need I've just fired myself."
Good luck!!! No matter what happens next week we'll be here, and ready to help you bitch about it!!! :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by comish
And I've heard more than once that about 5% of Americans consider playing the lottery retirement planning, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvwcom
Only if Tim was the listing agent, buyer's agent, and broker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Every once in a while I am reminded there are sometimes silver linings to even big turds. I say let these bastards lie in the bed they helped make;
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Losing Is Tough; Selling May Be Tougher
By Catherine Rampell November 5, 2008, 4:07 pm
Democrats, don’t put away the celebratory booze just yet. One of the world’s greatest opportunities for schadenfreude is about to present itself, as an exiting army of Republican foot soldiers tries to sell its Washington-area homes in the worst housing bust since the Great Depression.
Think about it: Many of today’s exiting Republican-appointed officials in Washington arrived near the height of the housing bubble, particularly those who came after George W. Bush was re-elected in 2004. Then, it must have seemed as if Republicans had a permanent stranglehold on Washington, and thus it must have also seemed like the appropriate time for conservative migrants to the capital to settle down and buy a home.
Many of these Republican officials nested in northern Virginia, a corner of what had long been a reliable red state. And what a time to buy in northern Virginia it was.
Like Miami and Las Vegas, northern Virginia was frantically built up during the housing bubble. Prices of single-family homes and condos skyrocketed. When I first lived in the area a couple of years ago, I remember hearing the curious term “Fairfaxed.” It referred to Fairfax County, Va., an overbuilt Washington suburb. Despite Fairfax’s perpetual gridlock, builders continued to plant residential high-rises around the county and beyond in anticipation that housing prices would climb ever higher. Residents in nearby Loudoun County lamented that their greatest fears were being realized: They were, after at least a decade of warnings, finally being “Fairfaxed.”
Fast-forward to today. Also like Miami and Las Vegas, northern Virginia’s housing market has cratered. The average housing price in the greater northern Virginia area in September declined 32.11 percent from the previous year, according to the Northern Virginia Association of Realtors.
And this is the market that many Republican officials, with few Washington job prospects during an Obama presidency, will have to sell in.
I thank my colleague Gardiner Harris for the pointer.