Real Estate Crash thread

If she violated actual laws or ethics requirements, your agent can file a formal complaint. We went that route when we bought a house a few years back for some fuckery. Entering a property without permission is certainly one of those things.

The inspection stuff is probably just weird negotiation hardball that they definitely couldn’t win in court with, but were hoping you’d cave and give them $$ back to avoid the fight. Shady for sure, potentially still legal.

If like above, an agent makes a claim that is untrue that loses the sale, they can be liable for damages. Saying things like, “this won’t handle the snow load” without an expert report in front of you is a HUGE no-no. Same for inspectors that recommend solutions to issues. If they aren’t licensed in the area they really should keep their trap shut.

I have a RE license and like 90% of the training is basically how not to get sued, but people still screw that part up

Yeah -- the NAR code of ethics makes it pretty clear you can't enter property without permission of owner or listing agent. And you certainly can't take the keys to the property like she did prior to closing and posession date.

NAR doesn't seem to care about inspections. It was in bad faith and demonstrably false (materials / ratings wrong, objections to the absence of features rather than features not working.) No recourse on that except to spew to other sellers not to work with her.

We had some similar issues with a sale a few years ago (buyers started moving some of their stuff in before the closing date). While I ultimately blame the buyer's agent, I think the biggest issue there was the buyers were super pushy, and the buyer's agent was dumb and just kinda went along with what the buyers wanted.

Ultimately, I just treated it as leverage. They fucked up, which means I had an easier time declining all of their other ridiculous requests.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

We had some similar issues with a sale a few years ago (buyers started moving some of their stuff in before the closing date). While I ultimately blame the buyer's agent, I think the biggest issue there was the buyers were super pushy, and the buyer's agent was dumb and just kinda went along with what the buyers wanted.

Ultimately, I just treated it as leverage. They fucked up, which means I had an easier time declining all of their other ridiculous requests.

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I think in our case it's the other way around. A buyers agent who claims to work on 1.5-3mil $ sales slumming it at 500k with two young first-time home buyers and doesn't give a fuck. Probably didn't want to have to arrange a key handoff in her busy life.

Young kids came by our house the day it went up for coming soon to walk their dog around the neighborhood and check it out. I was moving stuff via my minivan and they asked if i was owner -- we chatted for a bit. Super friendly folks planning to live there -- types we hoped to sell to.

That last sentence is difficult to decipher.

20 yrs ago we bought a house & the selling agent was spectacularly incompetent. Functionally illiterate, managed to fuck up all aspects of communication to or from his clients. Turned a very straightforward sale into a clusterfuck. Found out later from acquaintances in town that he was a longtime local that people felt a bit sorry for & the clients and other agents would help him do his job since he was ‘nice guy’.

Tons of price reductions around these parts. Lots of ads explicitly saying they will buy down your loan rate.

Saw an article today about institutional investors buying SFHs from home builders in bulk…


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I'm waiting for those price reductions to spread. And, my F5 key could use a break.

Hopefully you have time to wait as it could take 18 months for a noticable change

Am I seeing this right? We have a housing shortage. The Shortage drove housing price way up; however, it wasn’t a bubble. Nevertheless, The Fed is taking a hardline on inflation (that is really only 8.2% currently which is only 2.2% outside of normal range) and this effect is raising mortgage rates and keeping many buyers now on the sidelines even though prices are falling. So will this just exasperate the housing shortage and drive the high demand for rent?

STR is an STD

Any vacation spot has been permanently fucked.
Prices ain’t going down much. Unless they restrict them.

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Originally Posted by Hood26

Am I seeing this right? We have a housing shortage. The Shortage drove housing price way up; however, it wasn’t a bubble. Nevertheless, The Fed is taking a hardline on inflation (that is really only 8.2% currently which is only 2.2% outside of normal range) and this effect is raising mortgage rates and keeping many buyers now on the sidelines even though prices are falling. So will this just exasperate the housing shortage and drive the high demand for rent?

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Im in the seattle area. We saw significant market cooling over the last 6 months, with houses taking weeks to sell, having to be relisted, price reductions, and others being listed for much lower than they would have been in 2021. I have a couple cool tenants renting my condo who recently informed me that they would be moving out as they were closing on a house, but had another coworker lined up to take over their lease as the coworker just had her rent raised 20%. My tenants closing ended up falling through but i dont plan on raising their rent until my costs increase as well (maybe increase by $50 next year to keep up with my HOA increases).

My mortgage rate on my house is 2.65%. If i was to buy a similarly priced house now, my mortgage payment would be nearly 40% higher per month. I dont know how people are doing it. I've always thought about getting a small vacation cottage somewhere, but with rates the way they are, $1800/month in AirBnB is starting to sound a whole lot better than $1800/month mortgage plus maintenance cost.

It's such a weird market. No inventory, so some homes are still getting multiple offers. But on the other hand, I just got a buyer under contract with a contingent offer that would have gone straight in the trash can the last couple of years. The only thing I feel fairly confident about is that rates will go up some more, for the next 6 or 12 months.

@liv2ski I can keep waiting but there is definitely some champing at the bit. My comment about spreading reductions was flip because I have zero confidence there will be any meaningful, widespread correction.

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

STR is an STD

Any vacation spot has been permanently fucked.
Prices ain’t going down much. Unless they restrict them.

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yup keep beating that drum
str are one part of the many issues/factors of overall problem it's been decades in the making and its finally hear people always go after the easy low hanging fruit when they need to blame someone for what they do or do not have in life
the new normal is well back to the old normal unoccupied empty homes and now the "ski season lease" is back in vogue with mulitiple different people signing a 30 plus day lease and then reserving their weeks and days which helps skirt the short term rental rules

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Originally Posted by neufox47

Tons of price reductions around these parts. Lots of ads explicitly saying they will buy down your loan rate.

Saw an article today about institutional investors buying SFHs from home builders in bulk…


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Good time for the cash rich investment companies to buy up the American dream and rent it to the poor schmucks. Even middle class schmucks will struggle to afford the American dream rental costs.

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Originally Posted by Toadman

Good time for the cash rich investment companies to buy up the American dream and rent it to the poor schmucks. Even middle class schmucks will struggle to afford the American dream rental costs.

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Pretty sure if I was Dick Tator of the United States, I would not allow that. The just makes the issue of buying a home harder for people.

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

STR is an STD.

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This.

Pretty proud of my town for slowly squeezing this out with restrictions becoming stronger and stronger (many were placed years ago with staggered implementation and are finally coming on). It will not fix everything but it will help.

We also need to change eviction laws.

This town used to have 9 month rentals. And then couch surf the busy months. Whether rented or owner occupant.

Now. STR people refuse to rent off season because they can’t evict the deadbeats and make bank on season. I know personally dozens of homes sitting vacant for nine months when they could be housing for workers.

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Originally Posted by goldenboy

It's such a weird market. No inventory, so some homes are still getting multiple offers. But on the other hand, I just got a buyer under contract with a contingent offer that would have gone straight in the trash can the last couple of years. The only thing I feel fairly confident about is that rates will go up some more, for the next 6 or 12 months.

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Similar situation in my hood. Everything in the million category (that isn't just the sellers dreaming) is closing (usually) all cash, and there are still a few bidding wars.

The median in my zip code is 650k, which is still about 10% over last year. Average time on market is still about a week, but there are a lot fewer listings. Seeing contingent offers again as well. But low quality properties and/or those based on stale comps are getting price reductions, or languishing on the market (or both).

So if we have enough worker housing that will fix everything but if don't have any tourist or the influx of wealth then we don't have ski lifts

The locals only ski town where everyday is a twelve inch powder day and bro hugs and happy hour is a fallacy

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

We also need to change eviction laws.

This town used to have 9 month rentals. And then couch surf the busy months. Whether rented or owner occupant.

Now. STR people refuse to rent off season because they can’t evict the deadbeats and make bank on season. I know personally dozens of homes sitting vacant for nine months when they could be housing for workers.

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I have noticed off season LTR have almost completely disappeared from the market. With the last few years of can't-evict-anyone national policy, who the heck would take that risk for a few months of LTR? Even the normally empty Vail Resorts employee housing isn't up for summer rent!

Ski town locals have been complaining about housing for well over 20 years. It has gotten way harder, but also the echo chamber effect is definitely in play with the socials.

There will always be loud bitching local renters in high cost resort areas.

Rent will never be low. There will never be enough housing to affordably rent/buy to satisfy most of the middle/lower class folks who wants to live in paradise. But life is about tradeoffs. The challenge for decisionmakers is figuring out how much is enough vs how much is the baseline expected dissatisfaction under the novel din of amplified social network complaining.

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Originally Posted by liv2ski

Pretty sure if I was Dick Tator of the United States, I would not allow that. The just makes the issue of buying a home harder for people.

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It's amazing and disappointing how little attention is being paid to this by politicians and the media.

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Originally Posted by yeahman

It's amazing and disappointing how little attention is being paid to this by politicians and the media.

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Me too... corporate profiteering is tolerated at a lot of levels... but fuck with The American Dream (TM) at the risk of the entire system.