It's Not a Bike Accident When a Car Hits a Rider

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Originally Posted by dunfree

Oh dear real Alaska has been californicated and the Sierra pedantry has reached Hatcher Pass

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Stood in line the other night to eat at The Goat Place. Our waiter had a gelled Macklemore undercut and a long combed beard, the combination of which prob takes him over an hour to do up every day before he leaves the house. I had the potato and leek pizza and a Snow Goose hefe. It felt too much like California, until the check arrived and it was under $100.
Badoom tishhh

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Phew, fortunately gravel bikes aren't a thing!

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Neither are glacier bikes, thank fuck.

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Originally Posted by highangle

Way too much gravel for road bikers.

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I ride my road bike all over gravel roads.

I’m still waiting for your reply on your subsidized Last Frontier lifestyle. I mean you’re the one who brought up government subsidizing lifestyle. I’m waiting impatiently.

You’re like the mtu of this thread. There’s no substance.


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Originally Posted by highangle

Stood in line the other night to eat at The Goat Place. Our waiter had a gelled Macklemore undercut and a long combed beard, the combination of which prob takes him over an hour to do up every day before he leaves the house. I had the potato and leek pizza and a Snow Goose hefe. It felt too much like California, until the check arrived and it was under $100.
Badoom tishhh

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that sounds like a joke a transplant local in Alaska/Idaho/Montana/Wyoming tells the newer transplant locals.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I ride my road bike all over gravel roads.

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But you're a well-known idiot, though.

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I’m still waiting for your reply on your subsidized Last Frontier lifestyle. I mean you’re the one who brought up government subsidizing lifestyle. I’m waiting impatiently.

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My lifestyle, such as it is, is subsidized by my various business enterprises. I'm currently taking a week off my fitness routine to fatten up and let my metatarsalgia and IT bands rest before I go a half hour up the road to hunt one of the full curl Dall rams I found back in May. They say Kenai Mountains sheep is the hardest hunt in Alaska, and if you count the last few weeks I've spent cutting secret trails up through the alders to the high country hellscape, it's already living up to the rep.

Inre razing our cities to make bike paths and greenspaces road bikers won't use: Asinine. Who's going to handle the refugees? You know, all those people and businesses you'll gladly remove and use the iron boot of eminent domain on to make greenspaces for road bikers to sneer at? I think it's probably going to require a suspension of posse comitatus so the military can handle it.

Moreover, those greenspaces need to be along major roads, so serious road bikers can get their miles in a minimum of time between their VO2 stress tests and testosterone supplementation. It will also dis-employ a bunch of people when you displace those prime business locations along major thoroughfares. What do you think about the government employing all those people to make road bikes for the masses? You know, mining the titanium and magnesium, formulating the polymers, tensioning spokes...Sure beats keeping them in camps under bridges on the government dole, amirite?

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You’re like the mtu of this thread. There’s no substance.

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Good thing you're here to add mass. This thread would likely have vanished in the breeze were it not for the sheer weight of your perfervid concupiscent perceptions.

When I was commuting South Station -> Seaport/Dorchester in Boston, using a bike share (I guess it's Blue Bikes these days) to ride was just as fast as the Silver Line, and the path on the water around the city is a beautiful ride. It was definitely doable year round. Cold in the winter? Bring gloves. In the summer? Don't pedal wicked hard. I mean, I've sweated way more riding the Red Line than I have coasting past the ICA on a bike. The last time I was in NYC, I rode back from the bars to the hotel on a Citi Bike using the new(ish?) separated bike lane. I preferred it to the taxi/hot summer subway experience.

I stopped riding on the road for exercise partially because mtb trails are more fun, and partially because I got tired of aggro drivers. I was sitting in my car waiting to turn right on red in MA, and got rear-ended by somebody looking left (not where they were going) so they could treat right on red as a merge, instead of a stop. There's a pedestrian crossing there, next to a school. Tried commuting by bike on the roads around Louisville, CO back in the 2000s, but it wasn't worth it. Took the left lane to turn left, only to have a car pass me on the right, then turn left into my lane and slam the brakes on to take the same left I was going to take. I locked up both wheels, almost ate trunk.

We have a separated bike/ped path where live now. It's great, the kids can explore and got to the store on their own without being on a road. We just got bike boxes painted at intersections here now to provide a clear space where cyclists can move from the bike lane to the middle at a stop. https://nacto.org/publication/urban-...ts/bike-boxes/

To me, the investment in bike/ped infrastructure is clearly worth it. It's like public transportation in that most communities will get there eventually, so why not have the vision to do it, as opposed to waiting until it should have been done 20yrs ago. Our town has 1k+ residential building permits in the process of being built, so let's get more residents on bikes and reduce traffic.

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Originally Posted by 365wp

When I was commuting South Station -> Seaport/Dorchester in Boston, using a bike share (I guess it's Blue Bikes these days) to ride was just as fast as the Silver Line, and the path on the water around the city is a beautiful ride. It was definitely doable year round. Cold in the winter? Bring gloves. In the summer? Don't pedal wicked hard. I mean, I've sweated way more riding the Red Line than I have coasting past the ICA on a bike. The last time I was in NYC, I rode back from the bars to the hotel on a Citi Bike using the new(ish?) separated bike lane. I preferred it to the taxi/hot summer subway experience.

I stopped riding on the road for exercise partially because mtb trails are more fun, and partially because I got tired of aggro drivers. I was sitting in my car waiting to turn right on red in MA, and got rear-ended by somebody looking left (not where they were going) so they could treat right on red as a merge, instead of a stop. There's a pedestrian crossing there, next to a school. Tried commuting by bike on the roads around Louisville, CO back in the 2000s, but it wasn't worth it. Took the left lane to turn left, only to have a car pass me on the right, then turn left into my lane and slam the brakes on to take the same left I was going to take. I locked up both wheels, almost ate trunk.

We have a separated bike/ped path where live now. It's great, the kids can explore and got to the store on their own without being on a road. We just got bike boxes painted at intersections here now to provide a clear space where cyclists can move from the bike lane to the middle at a stop. https://nacto.org/publication/urban-...ts/bike-boxes/

To me, the investment in bike/ped infrastructure is clearly worth it. It's like public transportation in that most communities will get there eventually, so why not have the vision to do it, as opposed to waiting until it should have been done 20yrs ago. Our town has 1k+ residential building permits in the process of being built, so let's get more residents on bikes and reduce traffic.

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The only counterarguments are from people like Dexter who point out that some people will [spoiler alert] break the rules.

But yeah, +1.

MassBike: https://www.massbike.org

MassBike advocates for policies that encourage and support community wellness, equity, and inclusion, enable sustainable growth, drive economic vitality, and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

MassBike’s Vision for the Future

Bicycling in Massachusetts is a safe, respected, convenient, and enjoyable way to get around. Roads throughout the state are safe and welcoming for cyclists, and all users interact in a courteous and legal manner. Car-free pathways connect our communities, bicycles are fully integrated into our public transportation system, and secure bike parking is located where people need it. People of all kinds and means choose to bicycle for life, work, and play.

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Originally Posted by 365wp

When I was commuting South Station -> Seaport/Dorchester in Boston, using a bike share (I guess it's Blue Bikes these days) to ride was just as fast as the Silver Line, and the path on the water around the city is a beautiful ride. It was definitely doable year round. Cold in the winter? Bring gloves. In the summer? Don't pedal wicked hard. I mean, I've sweated way more riding the Red Line than I have coasting past the ICA on a bike. The last time I was in NYC, I rode back from the bars to the hotel on a Citi Bike using the new(ish?) separated bike lane. I preferred it to the taxi/hot summer subway experience.

I stopped riding on the road for exercise partially because mtb trails are more fun, and partially because I got tired of aggro drivers. I was sitting in my car waiting to turn right on red in MA, and got rear-ended by somebody looking left (not where they were going) so they could treat right on red as a merge, instead of a stop. There's a pedestrian crossing there, next to a school. Tried commuting by bike on the roads around Louisville, CO back in the 2000s, but it wasn't worth it. Took the left lane to turn left, only to have a car pass me on the right, then turn left into my lane and slam the brakes on to take the same left I was going to take. I locked up both wheels, almost ate trunk.

We have a separated bike/ped path where live now. It's great, the kids can explore and got to the store on their own without being on a road. We just got bike boxes painted at intersections here now to provide a clear space where cyclists can move from the bike lane to the middle at a stop. https://nacto.org/publication/urban-...ts/bike-boxes/

To me, the investment in bike/ped infrastructure is clearly worth it. It's like public transportation in that most communities will get there eventually, so why not have the vision to do it, as opposed to waiting until it should have been done 20yrs ago. Our town has 1k+ residential building permits in the process of being built, so let's get more residents on bikes and reduce traffic.

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Highangle hates you, City boy. When he comes back from his rugged mountain existence hunting Alaskan death snails on foot he'll run you over in his lifted truck because you displace businesses.

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

The BO thing is a red herring. Have you ever waited in a subway station in Manhattan in the summer? That's sweatier than I would get biking in to work in Portland, and I never heard that people thought it was necessary to grab a shower once you get off the subway train.

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I don’t live in a city or commute, but my impression is that a shitload of ebikes are purchased to enable sweat-free commutes.

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Originally Posted by highangle

But you're a well-known idiot, though.





My lifestyle, such as it is, is subsidized by my various business enterprises. I'm currently taking a week off my fitness routine to fatten up and let my metatarsalgia and IT bands rest before I go a half hour up the road to hunt one of the full curl Dall rams I found back in May. They say Kenai Mountains sheep is the hardest hunt in Alaska, and if you count the last few weeks I've spent cutting secret trails up through the alders to the high country hellscape, it's already living up to the rep.

Inre razing our cities to make bike paths and greenspaces road bikers won't use: Asinine. Who's going to handle the refugees? You know, all those people and businesses you'll gladly remove and use the iron boot of eminent domain on to make greenspaces for road bikers to sneer at? I think it's probably going to require a suspension of posse comitatus so the military can handle it.

Moreover, those greenspaces need to be along major roads, so serious road bikers can get their miles in a minimum of time between their VO2 stress tests and testosterone supplementation. It will also dis-employ a bunch of people when you displace those prime business locations along major thoroughfares. What do you think about the government employing all those people to make road bikes for the masses? You know, mining the titanium and magnesium, formulating the polymers, tensioning spokes...Sure beats keeping them in camps under bridges on the government dole, amirite?






Good thing you're here to add mass. This thread would likely have vanished in the breeze were it not for the sheer weight of your perfervid concupiscent perceptions.

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You would not be able to live in AK if there weren’t government subsidies. You’re railing about such things.

It’s ironic isn’t it? Such a rugged individual


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This thread is a shit show.

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Originally Posted by dunfree

that sounds like a joke a transplant local in Alaska/Idaho/Montana/Wyoming tells the newer transplant locals.

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Ha. Was this too on the nose for an angry response?

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Originally Posted by frorider

I don’t live in a city or commute, but my impression is that a shitload of ebikes are purchased to enable sweat-free commutes.

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I've considered one for that purpose but haven't actually ridden one to see how they feel. A little hill assist would be nice

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Originally Posted by 365wp

When I was commuting South Station -> Seaport/Dorchester in Boston, using a bike share (I guess it's Blue Bikes these days) to ride was just as fast as the Silver Line, and the path on the water around the city is a beautiful ride. It was definitely doable year round. Cold in the winter? Bring gloves. In the summer? Don't pedal wicked hard. I mean, I've sweated way more riding the Red Line than I have coasting past the ICA on a bike. The last time I was in NYC, I rode back from the bars to the hotel on a Citi Bike using the new(ish?) separated bike lane. I preferred it to the taxi/hot summer subway experience.

I stopped riding on the road for exercise partially because mtb trails are more fun, and partially because I got tired of aggro drivers. I was sitting in my car waiting to turn right on red in MA, and got rear-ended by somebody looking left (not where they were going) so they could treat right on red as a merge, instead of a stop. There's a pedestrian crossing there, next to a school. Tried commuting by bike on the roads around Louisville, CO back in the 2000s, but it wasn't worth it. Took the left lane to turn left, only to have a car pass me on the right, then turn left into my lane and slam the brakes on to take the same left I was going to take. I locked up both wheels, almost ate trunk.

We have a separated bike/ped path where live now. It's great, the kids can explore and got to the store on their own without being on a road. We just got bike boxes painted at intersections here now to provide a clear space where cyclists can move from the bike lane to the middle at a stop. https://nacto.org/publication/urban-...ts/bike-boxes/

To me, the investment in bike/ped infrastructure is clearly worth it. It's like public transportation in that most communities will get there eventually, so why not have the vision to do it, as opposed to waiting until it should have been done 20yrs ago. Our town has 1k+ residential building permits in the process of being built, so let's get more residents on bikes and reduce traffic.

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How many firebombs did this take?

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Originally Posted by frorider

I don’t live in a city or commute, but my impression is that a shitload of ebikes are purchased to enable sweat-free commutes.

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Around here, they are used by the elderly to enjoy the great outdoors. Or by the soccer moms to take the kids to the local veggie and fruit stand to get veggies and fruit. I regularly get passed by both types of ebike owners on steeper roads. Although, sometimes on rare occasions when I have good legs, it's the other way around.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

You would not be able to live in AK if there weren’t government subsidies. You’re railing about such things.

It’s ironic isn’t it? Such a rugged individual


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I suspect I would, since I built my home, fed and educated my family, and started my professional practice and real estate empire with the proceeds from my successful commercial fishing operation.
I pay more taxes than a thousand of you, and if it ever came down to it, I could make it as a fucking seal hunter or street busker or novelist or goddamn bond trader or Fuller brush salesman.

But that's not why I'm a leading citizen in a town full of amazing and awesome people. No, the real reason is because I ride on the fucking bike paths whenever possible.

Clubbing seal pups? Real heroic stuff there.

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Originally Posted by abraham

This thread is a shit show.Ha. Was this too on the nose for an angry response?

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No joke. It actually happened. Just didn't feel that frumdee's witless post merited a reply.

https://rusticgoatak.com/
https://rusticgoatak.com/menu/#Pizza

Bike Loud PDX is a Portland-focused cycling and traffic safety advocacy group. Our goal is to empower and support active transportation and create safer streets via grassroots advocacy campaigns. We make Portland better through bikes!

https://bikeloudpdx.org/about-us/

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Originally Posted by highangle

I suspect I would, since I built my home, fed and educated my family, and started my professional practice and real estate empire with the proceeds from my successful commercial fishing operation.
I pay more taxes than a thousand of you, and if it ever came down to it, I could make it as a fucking seal hunter or street busker or novelist or goddamn bond trader or Fuller brush salesman.

But that's not why I'm a leading citizen in a town full of amazing and awesome people. No, the real reason is because I ride on the fucking bike paths whenever possible.

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All of those things don’t happen in a vacuum. There’s tons of public infrastructure that allow the trade in goods and transportation of said goods. Those we paid for in large part by the government. You wouldn’t have accomplished any of those things without subsidies even if they aren’t direct to you.

I’m sure you’re industrious and ambitious but you seem to lack understanding of how a society works. I don’t think that is the case though, you just like playing an asshole here.


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I knew someone who was truly independent of government--she and her husband lived off the grid in Wyoming and were subsistence hunters/poachers. She ditched the husband after a year and went to med school. Of course they weren't truly independent--they had to buy ammunition which means an infrastructure dependent supply chain. Can't remember if they had a gas-using vehicle of some sort.

When I can't make the little hills going around Donner Lake I guess I'll have to get an ebike. Or stop my blood pressure med so I can get my heart rate over 80. I still have a gear to give so maybe I can hold it off a year or two more.

Bike Loud PDX is a Portland-focused cycling and traffic safety advocacy group. Our goal is to empower and support active transportation and create safer streets via grassroots advocacy campaigns. We make Portland better through bikes!

https://bikeloudpdx.org/about-us/

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Originally Posted by dunfree

Clubbing seal pups? Real heroic stuff there.

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Oh I'm sorry, you must have confused me for a Canadian?

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

All of those things don’t happen in a vacuum. There’s tons of public infrastructure that allow the trade in goods and transportation of said goods. Those we paid for in large part by the government. You wouldn’t have accomplished any of those things without subsidies even if they aren’t direct to you.

I’m sure you’re industrious and ambitious but you seem to lack understanding of how a society works. I don’t think that is the case though, you just like playing an asshole here.


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Did I not tell you I pay more taxes than a thousand of you? Yes I did.
You don't let facts like that get in the way of your insipid little troll rants, do you? Enjoy your loaf of government cheese food product, and stop prating.

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Originally Posted by highangle

Did I not tell you I pay more taxes than a thousand of you? Yes I did.
You don't let facts like that get in the way of your insipid little troll rants, do you? Enjoy your loaf of government cheese food product, and stop prating.

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Anything's possible, but more taxes than a thousand dentists is a lot of scratch. Have you ever considered throwing a tiny percentage of your wealth at subsidizing rock star bike lanes to get all those anorexic roadies off the highway? I'd like about an 8 foot lane on each side of the highway, with clearly delineated areas for peds and cyclists, happy to come on board as a design consultant for a very reasonable fee.

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Originally Posted by altasnob

US has spent 100 years catering to cars instead of pedestrians and cyclist. Even if we try, it won't change quickly. Tokyo is one of the most bicycle friendly cities on earth and has a high population density. It has an advantage over NYC in that it was mostly built after WWII. Japanese are ok being crammed on top of one another and walking, biking, and taking transit everywhere. Americans, not so much.

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Hmm, have you been to Tokyo? Aside from some of the parks and paths along the rivers there's almost no infrastructure for cyclists. Cycling in Tokyo is (relatively) safe because Japanese drivers are polite and accept that bikes belong on the road, not because it's particularly well designed for it. (It probably helps that traffic is so terrible in the city center that people are usually driving slow.) Also, as in much of the world outside the US, bikes are primarily viewed as a practical means of transportation - you'll see kids, grandmas, and men in business suits all riding on the road mixed in with cars (no bike lanes).

I have a very clear memory of being in a taxi in Japan that was behind a sarariman on a bike. I expected the cabbie to be impatient, maybe honk, etc. but he just acted like he was behind a car in traffic - mind boggling.

https://medium.com/vision-zero-citie...o-b3b8eded727e

The Institute for Transportation and Development Policy estimates that cycling mode share in Japan is around 16 percent, somewhere between the two percent in the U.S., and 25 percent in the Netherlands.[1]

For a country of 130 million people, that 16 percent is a serious number of people on bikes and, for them, cycling is a normal, everyday means of transportation. According to Japan’s latest Nationwide Person-Trip Survey, most bike trips are under five kilometers (three miles). The Japan Bicycle Promotion Institute recently reported that people’s top reason for using their bicycle was shopping, followed by social activities, and then by commuting. Bicycle ownership is accessible in cost, with 65 percent of bicycles in Japan sold for no more than 30,000 yen (under $300). It is also accessible in physicality, with 60 percent of bikes being step-through cruisers, known as city cycles or mamachari (literally “mothers’ bikes”).

But for all this bike culture, and in sharp opposition to places with both smaller and larger mode shares like New York City or the Netherlands, protected bike lanes are virtually nonexistent in Tokyo and across Japan. What is introduced as cycling infrastructure are sharrows or shared paths on the sidewalk. Former New York City Department of Transportation Commissioner Janette Sadik-Khan pointed out this lack of dedicated, protected infrastructure while visiting Japan in 2019, and as other global cities build more and more protected infrastructure, Tokyo’s lack of such infrastructure moved the city from 9th to 16th in the 2019 Copenhagenize Index.

Yet, despite the lack of infrastructure, cycling in Japan is fairly safe. An International Transport Forum discussion paper from 2018 shows that cyclist fatalities per 100 million kilometers cycled were around 0.8 in the Netherlands between 2011 to 2015.[2] Calculated in the same manner, the figures would be around 5.3 for the U.S. (2009),[3] and around 2.3 for Japan (2011–2015).[4] Risk for cyclists in Japan is right in the middle, just like its mode-share, even though the country has less infrastructure for cycling in its cities than either locale.

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Originally Posted by highangle

Did I not tell you I pay more taxes than a thousand of you? Yes I did.
You don't let facts like that get in the way of your insipid little troll rants, do you? Enjoy your loaf of government cheese food product, and stop prating.

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You paid for all the roads, seaports and airports by yourself?


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54-46 can you please disclose your boner for this subject?


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Originally Posted by east or bust

54-46 can you please disclose your boner for this subject?


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I was initially ranting about the news coverage and didn’t think it would lead to much.

Once people started replying it seemed like fun to share cycling resources and torque Hangnail, er HighAngle. (HA - You on roids, Boy?)

Funny, I’m 80/20 MTB/roadie ratio and see lots of people here make huge assumptions and have prejudices about roadies. It’s pretty amusing.

IMO, bike is bike.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

You paid for all the roads, seaports and airports by yourself?


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Yes

Q: What do you call a person from Wisconsin who always has a lot to say?

A: A Milwaukee-Talkie

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Originally Posted by 54-46

HA - You on roids, Boy?

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Live Strong

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Originally Posted by highangle

Yes

Q: What do you call a person from Wisconsin who always has a lot to say?

A: A Milwaukee-Talkie

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Ha! Now I know you’re just trolling, we discussed this detail. Apologies if you’re in the early throes is dementia


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Originally Posted by highangle

I pay more taxes than a thousand of you, and if it ever came down to it, I could make it as a fucking seal hunter oe.

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You pay takes? I thought you are a rugged individual living in the Land of the free and not some communist pansy in a nanny state?

And I thought you hunted road bikers and sold their gore TeX to the dentist crowd?

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Originally Posted by subtle plague

You pay takes? I thought you are a rugged individual living in the Land of the free and not some communist pansy in a nanny state?

And I thought you hunted road bikers and sold their gore TeX to the dentist crowd?

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You're a kook and a nictating goofball though. One who found and joined this forum based on a Jet Plane on a Treadmill or Paleo Diet thread. It's only natural you would misapprehend and become confused in your Naruto rush to be the goofiest bastard in any given room - pretty sure you can't even ride a bike.

I like bike paths. It's just a shame road bikers can't seem to use bike paths yet they always seem to have these great ideas to level entire city blocks and destroy entire municipal tax bases to build more bike paths which, again and at the risk of belaboring the point, they won't ride on anyway.

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Originally Posted by highangle

You're a kook and a nictating goofball though. One who found and joined this forum based on a Jet Plane on a Treadmill or Paleo Diet thread. It's only natural you would misapprehend and become confused in your Naruto rush to be the goofiest bastard in any given room - pretty sure you can't even ride a bike.

I like bike paths. It's just a shame road bikers can't seem to use bike paths yet they always seem to have these great ideas to level entire city blocks and destroy entire municipal tax bases to build more bike paths which, again and at the risk of belaboring the point, they won't ride on anyway.

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We’ve got one bike path in Wenatchee WA, not WI, it’s great, I use it sometimes to get around town. The problem is that it has no practical use otherwise than recreational riding. I try and use quieter side streets when I’m commuting or running errands. I don’t understand the riders who insist on riding the main thoroughfares when a safer more pleasant alternative is just a block away. I’m not surprised when we have the occasional cyclist hit on the main roads but I don’t wish them harm.

I’m always surprised how selfish and clueless the average motorist is too. It’s too bad there’s so many assholes in the world, cyclists and motorists, people need to slow down and look out for others.

I don’t really want any special concessions made for cyclists, I just want both groups to be safe and respectful.


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In case anyone wonders if bikes really have a “right” to the road, here’s some interesting history

https://www.bikeleague.org/content/mission-and-history


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The irony of highangle complaining about bike paths destroying entire towns and tax bases is getting pretty thick considering the history of how the motor vehicle system was built.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

In case anyone wonders if bikes really have a “right” to the road, here’s some interesting history

https://www.bikeleague.org/content/mission-and-history


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So what you're saying is that if we didn't have bikes we wouldn't have paved roads and everyone would slow down and stay close to home and we wouldn't have global warming. Thanks Obama.

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Originally Posted by old_newguy

The irony of highangle complaining about bike paths destroying entire towns and tax bases is getting pretty thick considering the history of how the motor vehicle system was built.

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I'm not talking about bike paths destroying entire towns and tax bases, only some of the hare-brained ideas some of you road bikers have pooped out - falcon3's nifty plan for removing the buildings on every 10th block of Manhattan comes to mind...Even bike boxes require traffic calming, something only feasible in residential and light commercial areas with plenty of RoW on roads that aren't thoroughfares...

What is a motor vehicle system? If you mean "The way the roads are!", you're talking about a thing that has evolved over several generations undertaken by thousands of unrelated entities for lots of different reasons. Kind of dumb to consider it as a single easily changeable thing built by a couple old guys with a shovel.