Quote:
Originally Posted by 54-46
"Of all the times to leave the gap wedge out of the bag..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54-46
"Of all the times to leave the gap wedge out of the bag..."
Some of you dumbfucks also fail to recognize that MTBers get hit and buzzed by cars on the road on their way to trails.
All that shit is "could happen," shitty trail conditions are guaranteed. Saying "I could get injured" isn't any different than riding backcountry or, for that matter, riding inbounds with the full complement of yahoos.Quote:
Originally Posted by highangle
You feel better now after attacking, and assaulting, another person's lifestyle?Quote:
Originally Posted by highangle
The cyclists here complaining about how bike paths aren't perfect enough or (gasp!) have to obey stop signs so they would rather use a roadway is a perfect example of why most people think they are assholes, notably complaining about having to share them with children.
Deal with it. You are not guaranteed the right to zero annoyances while riding your bike. Share the road (or paths) works both ways. Specifically choosing to not use a dedicated path built for you and instead slowing everyone else down by being in their way is the definition of asshole behavior.
Wow. Some of you have clearly never ridden a bike for exercise, nor do you realize the benefits it provides to well being and mental health. Biking is my pow skiing in the summertime. Sorry, can't help it that my only time to ride is during your 'rush' hour in this town of 22k people.
To be fair, I was never a roadie because you just can't trust every driver. Lee Hill and 119 Diagonal in Boulder were the perfect examples for me to not even risk it.
That said, I often ride my adventure bike from home on gravel, then tarmac, to get to singletrack. I've started to 'take a lane' on this one section of Strawberry park because of tourist drivers and impatient (usually dodge diesels) drivers that blaze within inches of me trying to pass on an uphill blind spot, when the state of Colorado has a 3ft minimum rule to pass a cyclist.
Fuck you mtm- wow.
I pay taxes for these roads, it's my right to ride, and in a responsible manner, and it's your right to ride them, too. But just because you don't, doesn't mean you can keep being a dick about it while using your car as a bullying mechanism. It's literally shocking to me, how many of these pro lifers give zero fucks when it comes to passing a cyclist safely.
Driver's Ed also needs a total revamp across the country.
I'm talking about stop signs every 100 feet. At that point, why bother. And it may surprise you to hear this, but walkers and runners don't particularly cotton to cyclists doing training rides on those paths.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdironRider
Right, any more than you're guaranteed the right to zero annoyances while driving your car. So...looks like we're both right. Participation trophies all around?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdironRider
People on bikes break fewer laws than people in cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdironRider
People in cars are triggered when they see people on bikes breaking the law (it happens to me too) because when you're in a car you're part of the car tribe so speeding, texting, honking, not yielding to pedestrians, etc. is socially acceptable as long as it isn't egregious.
When a person on a bike breaks the law however they are seen as an outsider deserving of punishment even though statistically people on bikes aren’t posing a threat to anybody.
When I ride on the road it's for transportation, so choosing a route that gets me to my destination in a reasonable amount of time matters. This is mostly a hypothetical circle jerk since the times when you have a choice between a road and an adjacent MUP are rare exceptions. However, when that decision does exist, every instance is different. I'll take the bad MUP over a shoulder-less major highway with lots of truck traffic. But, near my house there's a canal trail a block from a road that both end up in basically the same place. The road is low-traffic with a clean wide shoulder and three signals. The canal trail has a dozen stop signs in the same stretch, has goatheads everywhere, and has pedestrian signals at all the arterials that stop heavy cross-traffic just so that I can cross. Taking the road is better for everyone involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdironRider
eta: It's absurd for any modern road to be built without a shoulder. If there a decent shoulder there's no need for bikes to be "slowing everyone else down" and the shoulder benefits all road users (room to pull over if needed, etc.).
Society should do everything it can to encourage people to ride their bike rather than drive. Much less carbon footprint, much less damage to the roads than heavy cars, is good exercise. A healthy society reduces medical and insurance costs for all. And society should promote forms of exercise and recreation you can do from your front door instead of ones that require a long drive from your house (like skiing and mountain biking).
When I lived near downtown Seattle, I almost never drove my car in the city and exclusively biked and walked. I enjoyed my time living in Seattle. Contrast my friend who went to school in Bozeman and liked driving his Tacoma everywhere in the city. He couldn't stand Seattle. I think riding your bike instead of driving promotes general well being and happiness. My dream city to live is Amsterdam, which puts cyclist ahead of cars.
I think this concept that folks on bikes are "outsiders" on the road is a big part of the issue. In Colorado about half of the cost of roads are paid by general taxes - not gas taxes, transportation fees etc. Which means that people driving are being subsidized to an enormous extent for their right to drive on a road. Which also means that they needs to share it fully with farm equipment, horses and bikes. But they've been taught it's theirs, and anything else is an inconvenience. It's not "theirs." They didn't pay for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
And the more rural the road the more the people who are NOT driving cars are subsidizing that road. To the tune of 90% or more of the cost in very rural areas.
Multiverse gets it.
Some people on here must be foaming at the mouth on a daily basis if they are so hung up on stopping at stop signs, not running red lights, etc. Traffic violations are like an every 30 second occurrence around here.
Go sit at any stop sign with any traffic and watch how many people actually stop fully where they are supposed to.
"If you're pre-born you're fine, if you're pre-school you're fucked."Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
-George Carlin
Though, I will say, it does the cycling community no good to deny that some cycists are cunts and that some accidents are entirely the fault of the cyclist. Neither is the norm, but they certainly exist.
Here's the guy who was the first cyclist in the country to be convicted of felony manslaughter for mowing down a women in a crosswalk on his fixie in San Francisco:
https://sfbayca.com/2018/08/01/bicyc...-deadly-crash/
And for all y'all who can't ever go to Canada because of your DUI, ride your bike to the bar. While technically illegal to bike fucked up, unless you are in a collision, you will almost never get in trouble for it. In Washington, you can't get a DUI on a bike (because bike doesn't meet the definition of "vehicle") but can get Reckless Endangerment, a lesser charge than DUI (same charge as those Summit County snowboarders who dropped into I-70).
Incorrect. I'm supposing nothing, but thanks for providing another example. I'm basing this on what you literally described: the thoughts of people who are not yourself which you claim to know anyway. You have multiple personalities, maybe? Or maybe you are getting stuck on this fact: there's no one in your head except you. Therefore, all of the ideas you have about other people's ideas are your own ideas. Ascribing them to others is called projection. Hence the link.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
Unless you can tell me the story of how you came to know the thoughts of the cyclists you describe and somehow it doesn't involve your imagination, you've been projecting.
There's really no comparison in terms of who violates traffic rules like running red lights and biking against traffic more often--unless it's late at night I can't get to the corner without seeing several cyclists run lights, ride the wrong way, etc.
I personally know two people who have been hospitalized after being run down by cyclists (both while crossing the street). One didn't have any real injuries (lasting--I assume just bruising or something), but the other had major orthopedic surgery and will apparently never walk/run normally again (and the cyclist got up and took off--fortunately this woman had health insurance so presumably didn't have to pay too much for her medical care). This is another example of what cyclists do all the time (people get injured and even occasionally killed by cyclists riding recklessly)--fly through intersections with people crossing the street, thinking it's fine to do it because they're on a bike. I understand that in rural areas cyclists are rarely a threat to pedestrians, but most people live in/around cities. I think there should be some consensus over whether or not bikes are treated like cars--cyclists often seem to want it both ways, they get the rights of cars when it suits them but should also get special dispensation to do things we'd never tolerate from a driver (when was the last time you were driving and just flew through every red light in your path without even slowing down? Bikes do that tens of thousands of times every day just where I live).Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
edit: just to be clear, none of the above in any way excuses/justifies what drivers do around cyclists every day, and those drivers should really be aggressively prosecuted when they endanger people. If someone hits a cyclist because they were reckless and/or driving in such a way that made hitting the cyclist likely then they should be treated criminally. But saying cyclists, at least in urban/suburban areas, are not a risk to others is very untrue (and no, I'm not saying they're as big a danger as reckless drivers are).
Well, no--again, I explicitly told you I am not trying to put anyone in their place, so you projecting that onto me is still incorrect and is the irony of you doing exactly what you want ascribe to me. Third try still hasn't done it for you here.Quote:
Originally Posted by jono
OK, sure. Everyone is suffering from the same delusion about these people. Really? That's what you want to claim? How about when a car very apparently intentionally endangers a cyclist? How do you know what's in the driver's head? You're just projecting, amirite? Come on, man. Don't be pedantic about this (and having confronted a few cyclists over the years about exactly their behavior I am very certain about at least part of their motivation--of course I can't say what their thoughts were, but their responses when confronted and their actions made clear to me what I already basically knew--that's not projection, that's just accepting reality).Quote:
I'm basing this on what you literally described: the thoughts of people who are not yourself which you claim to know anyway. You have multiple personalities, maybe? Or maybe you are getting stuck on this fact: there's no one in your head except you. Therefore, all of the ideas you have about other people's ideas are your own ideas. Ascribing them to others is called projection. Hence the link.
Unless you can tell me the story of how you came to know the thoughts of the cyclists you describe and somehow it doesn't involve your imagination, you've been projecting.
Where you live is not representative of 99% of the country, including most "cities." I live in a "city" and commute ~2,000 miles/year. If I see a single bike on either leg of my daily route it's notable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
Really? Because any time I drive the speed limit on any road, almost all other drivers will pass me, or tailgate if passing isn't possible. And I'm sure you know that the number of cyclist-caused injuries is an insignificant fraction of the number of injuries caused by motorists, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
W/E, this is pretty much like discussing politics at this point, we're just bloviating to hear ourselves talk and no opinions will be changed. I'll still ride (on snow) with any of you guys any time except that one asshole.
Well, simply by population numbers alone your percentage is wrong--over 5% of the U.S. lives in the greater metropolitan area, and I would refer you to Boston, Chicago, or a number of other large cities where you often see similar things (admittedly it seems less frequent, but it may seem that way only as a result of less volume, I'm not sure).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Regardless of whether or not this is 'representative' of what happens in all U.S. cities (does it have to be?), it's happening, and it's not some kind of special rarity that almost never occurs.
Most of the folks upset over people on bikes breaking the law break the law themselves. It's just that sometimes people on bikes break the law in different ways than drivers do. The fact is, based on multiple studies using video cameras at intersections, show people in cars break the rules more often. The vast majority of people on bikes, even in NYC, obey traffic lights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
Every year about 50,000 people on bikes are hit by cars in America. Whereas in NYC, for example, people on bikes on average hit and kill two pedestrians and injure another 170. In comparison, about 150 pedestrians and about 25 cyclists are killed by people driving cars in NYC with another 8,400 or so pedestrians and cyclists injured by cars in the city.
No, you're correct if you include speeding, and I thought of that when wrote what I did, which is why I said 'traffic rules like red lights.' Obviously most cars exceed the speed limit much of the time (since Dan pointed out that where I live is kind of an exception I'll note that probably half the time I'm driving I can't even reach the speed limit, which is 25, but that's a different story). But I think nearly everyone accepts that breaking the speed limit is generally going to be tolerated--especially since it's safer to drive 65 in a 55 if most of the cars around you are going 70, or something like that. Bikes when possible also exceed speed limits (I have heard of cyclists being issued speeding tickets, even, although that may be myth). I just think blowing through red lights and going the wrong way on one way streets is in a different category.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_pdx
Down for the ski whenever...
Well, you're going to have to prove that one to me, because I can essentially guarantee you that that's not the case. I know it's still anecdotal, but I've live in the city for over 25 years and that statement just seems impossible. It may be the case that the majority of cyclists SOMETIMES obey traffic lights, but I could go outside now and take video to prove to you that very few cyclists stop at the lights and wait for green (they don't all do the riding through at full speed while turning onto an avenue thing--that's mostly a delivery guy maneuver). I would say even among those who come to a stop, most of those people tend to proceed before the light turns green (when oncoming traffic stops or there is a gap they just go again), and the most common is slowing down without a stop before going through the light.Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
I know, I have seen exactly those numbers in the past (Transportation Alternatives?). Of course there are vastly larger numbers of drivers so naturally they would be involved in more accidents, but I'm guessing even if you adjust for that to get a per mile traveled number or something the cars are still going to be causing more crashes.Quote:
Every year about 50,000 people on bikes are hit by cars in America. Whereas in NYC, for example, people on bikes hit and kill two pedestrians and injure another 170, on average. In comparison, about 150 pedestrians and about 25 cyclists are killed by people driving cars in NYC, and another 8,400 or so pedestrians and cyclists are injured by cars.
That's a lot of words and denial just to concede the fact, but thanks for getting there eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
I'm not going to address the irrelevant stuff, cause I'm not going to read it that carefully anyway. The reason this is relevant to you is that you were complaining about people not understanding each other. That's a widespread problem because projection is easier: we don't need to improve our understanding if we already "know" everything. Empathy? Too much work.
It is mildly amusing watching you spend hours complaining about the seconds lost behind slow moving vehicles and all the sins of your imagined enemies, though. [/drift]
I once got a ticket for running a stop sign in a bike in a neighborhood in Jackson WY at 10 PM. When I called my insurance company to ask if it would drive up my rates, the customer service agent laughed and then asked me what my real question was. She had to escalate the call to her boss.
They asked that I send a copy of the citation being sure to include the portion that mentioned that I was on a bicycle.
While we're at it--when turning right in a car please pull as far to the right as possible including the bike lane before turning so a through cyclist can pass you on the left. And signal of course. One of the most popular ways to get killed riding a bike is by being hit by a car turning right from too far left. As a cyclist, when you see that situation--even if the car is stopped with right turn signal on--you have no idea if the car is going to wait for you to pass on the right or is going to wait until you're next to them and then decide to turn. It's the law in CA and likely a lot of other places.
And if you are going to pass the cyclist just before your turn best to wait behind them and let them go. The cyclist needs plenty of time to figure out if they can safely pass on the left or if they need to wait behind you until you make the turn.
Bikes are required to follow the same laws as cars in exchange for the right to use the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruvian
That means its illegal for slow vehicles to hold up more than 5 others without pulling over in the first safe spot.
In towns with 25 mphish speed limits and stoplights its not a problem but on 2 lane curvu country roads roads it happens a lot and eventually people get pissed and start passing unsafely...
What ever happened to Hot Pizza guy??
Whoa! Nobody calling for the licensing of cyclists in this thread yet? I pay taxes blah blah blah? Most car drivers couldn't make it two blocks without making one or more driving errors. Does seem like a bit of progress though on that licensing comment:D
I've been completely run over by a diesel dually on a road bike. Laid me up for months and erased my face. I've never injured or come close to intimidating a cyclist.
My point is that the cyclists near me are shit heads.
Actually no, you said thisQuote:
Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark
In California bicycles are required to ride as close to the right edge of the pavement as practical, in single file unless they can both fit into a bike lane. They don't have to ride through gravel or broken glass etc to do so. I haven't seen anything in the CVC that particularly addresses riding in the center of the lane to prevent cars from making an unsafe pass. I do that when necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruvian
Around here the number one reason for a bike to be blocking traffic is that a car is parked in the bike lane.
Glad to see they're widening Donner Pass Rd between Donner Lake and Donner Summit. There will be a continuous bike lane westbound (climbing) and partial bike lanes where possible eastbound. But most descending bikes go as fast or faster than the cars.
FIFY. Not sure if it counts as strike four, but it's close.Quote:
Originally Posted by jono
OK, sure.
You still haven't really clicked that link, have you? You can admit it.
So my buddy who rode a bike 55000 kms across Canada/ down the east coast/ into mexico/ on to tierra del fuego and back said to me
" once we got across the border into Mexico I felt a lot safer "
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaleia
Haha, motorists stopping for red lights, you’re killing me hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
Everyone on the road is an asshole today. There’s way more motorists than bike riders.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I used to ride my horse on the road in Maryland.
Cars, dump trucks, semis , loud motorcycles, no problem
Fucking road bikers freaked him the fuck out.
Animals know things.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JFC, you're still on about that link and projection, as if it's some novel part of psychology no one ever knew existed until you discovered that link. You don't need to have studied in Vienna to know what it is, and that link didn't provide anything I hadn't heard/read about projection dozens or hundreds of times previously. Is projection something you just realized exists as part of human psychology?Quote:
Originally Posted by jono
To help you...from your link: attributing one’s own unacceptable urges to another
If you somehow know what my urges are, which I am attributing to others, please enlighten me (hint: you already proved the opposite with respect to me, so don't waste time).
Really funny part is up above in the paragraph where you mention empathy you simply restated the point I made pages ago, but somehow you are so wrapped up in your own thoughts that you can't understand that. (And even being wrapped up in your own thoughts you are telling me what mine are--yes, in some respects you truly understand projection.)
Not sure I'm up for another round of your circular logic--sorry, amigo.
Not sure if you're being serious with the motorists stopping for red lights, but I'll say again that I almost never see a car blow through a red light as if it wasn't there, but I see this at least several hundred times a day with cyclists (when I'm walking around for more than 20 or 30 minutes, at least, and if there are cyclists around and I'm on the street for more than a couple minutes and don't see it that's exceptional). Most of them go through red lights, and that's just SOP for them. If I see a car do the same (except for cops, who will often roll slowly through red lights) on any given day or even week that's more than usual. Your second point is basically true.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
Bunch of fucking misanthropes. (Bet many of you had to look that up.)