It's Not a Bike Accident When a Car Hits a Rider

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Originally Posted by From_the_NEK

Does "taking the lane" count if the cyclist(s) is stopped in the middle of the road around a blind uphill corner chatting with his riding partner?

The other day I was driving this gravel road near Burke. There is a somewhat steep uphill into a blind corner. The speed limit through here is 35mph, but I usually take it a little slower just due to the poor sight lines. On this day I was luckily taking it even slower than usual a I was out for a cruise looking for some photo ops. The Street view images below don't really show how blind the corner is since the Google vehicle was in the lane coming from the other direction. But I think you can get the idea. I came up and around the bend only to find two riders sitting in the road. The one guy near the side of the road was ok but his buddy was in the middle of the road (see blue marks in the second shot); both were completely stopped and appeared to be chatting. I had less than 50 ft to emergency brake and swerve into the other lane. If there had been another vehicle coming from the other direction, i would have had to take the mailbox.

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It really seems that a lot of riders are leaving their brains somewhere else when they put their helmets on. They become the center of the universe and everyone must make way for them. If we could all work together, everyone would have more fun.

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The bikers in your scenario are behaving in an unsafe manner because they are stopped in the roadway, but at the same time you are traveling to fast for the conditions if you can’t stop for an obstruction in the roadway and stay in your lane.

Goes both ways.

Please note that if I encounter riders that are following the rules, I have no problem slowing down and waiting to pass safely, even when I'm in a hurry. I've actually blocked impatient drives behind me that looked like they were going to attempt a double pass (me and the riders). I understand how the rules work, it is just the riders that don't care to follow them that makes the pushback from drivers worse for all riders.

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Originally Posted by From_the_NEK

Does "taking the lane" count if the cyclist(s) is stopped in the middle of the road around a blind uphill corner chatting with his riding partner?

The other day I was driving this gravel road near Burke. There is a somewhat steep uphill into a blind corner. The speed limit through here is 35mph, but I usually take it a little slower just due to the poor sight lines. On this day I was luckily taking it even slower than usual a I was out for a cruise looking for some photo ops. The Street view images below don't really show how blind the corner is since the Google vehicle was in the lane coming from the other direction. But I think you can get the idea. I came up and around the bend only to find two riders sitting in the road. The one guy near the side of the road was ok but his buddy was in the middle of the road (see blue marks in the second shot); both were completely stopped and appeared to be chatting. I had less than 50 ft to emergency brake and swerve into the other lane. If there had been another vehicle coming from the other direction, i would have had to take the mailbox.

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It really seems that a lot of riders are leaving their brains somewhere else when they put their helmets on. They become the center of the universe and everyone must make way for them. If we could all work together, everyone would have more fun.

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Based on your description of this event, I believe that snowboarders should not be allowed to ride bikes.

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Originally Posted by old_newguy

The bikers in your scenario are behaving in an unsafe manner because they are stopped in the roadway, but at the same time you are traveling to fast for the conditions if you can’t stop for an obstruction in the roadway and stay in your lane.

Goes both ways.

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I could have stopped before I hit them. But it would have been close and why chance it if I had other "outs" that didn't leave them in front of my truck?
Well, IMHO there is a huge difference between an obstruction that is accidental (broken down vehicle, rock slide, tree in the road, etc) and an obstruction that "chooses" to be there (biker standing in the road). If someone set out their lawn chair in that spot to hang out, they would likely get put on a suicide watch.

What if there was a mail deliver truck ,or worse - an old woman checking her mail in the street, as you came around that corner? 35 MPH is the speed LIMIT, not the recommended speed. I surely hope everyone would slow down considerably around a 'blind curve' as by definition you can't see what's in front of you.

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Originally Posted by smartyiak

Based on your description of this event, I believe that snowboarders should not be allowed to ride bikes.

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These guys were totally snowboarders! As I slowly drove by them after hammering the brakes, I gave them a strongly disapproving look and they just gave me a "whatever" look. :truck:

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Originally Posted by Peruvian

What if there was a mail deliver truck ,or worse - an old woman checking her mail in the street, as you came around that corner? 35 MPH is the speed LIMIT, not the recommended speed. I surely hope everyone would slow down considerably around a 'blind curve' as by definition you can't see what's in front of you.

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I was going under 30. The mail truck and the woman checking her mail would not have been as far out in the road as the rider.
My point is "WHY would you stop on your bicycle in the middle of the road in the first place"?

Luckily I was driving slow enough to avoid them. But I know that there are plenty of other drivers on that road that do not.

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Originally Posted by From_the_NEK

I was going under 30. The mail truck and the woman checking her mail would not have been as far out in the road as the rider.
My point is "WHY would you stop on your bicycle in the middle of the road in the first place"?

Luckily I was driving slow enough to avoid them. But I know that there are plenty of other drivers on that road that do not.

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I was working from your description that if there had been oncoming traffic your options would have been to hit the bikers, the oncoming car or the mailbox.

Stopping on a blind corner is not smart, but the point is that this is not some behavior that is exclusive to bikes.

I have similarly made the mistake of taking a corner to fast for the site distance and had to make similar moves to avoid hitting rocks, deer, people and cars.

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Originally Posted by smartyiak

Based on your description of this event, I believe that snowboarders should not be allowed to ride bikes.

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Nor should they be allowed to drive car or any other motorized vehicle for that matter. But taking a ride on a Bezos rocket would be okay.

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Originally Posted by From_the_NEK

Does "taking the lane" count if the cyclist(s) is stopped in the middle of the road around a blind uphill corner chatting with his riding partner?

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I think we can all agree that is what assholes / idiots do. I would just like for people to be pissed at those cyclists in particular, not all cyclists as a class

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Originally Posted by smartyiak

Based on your description of this event, I believe that snowboarders should not be allowed to ride bikes.

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https://49.media.tumblr.com/f6bd23c4...e8iio1_500.gif

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

90% of road bikers near me deserve to get hit. Fuck them and their entitled clueless attitude. Yeh, riding on a mountain pass road with no shoulder during commute time taking up the middle of the lane or 2-3 abreast on blind corners. Go fuck yourself and die.

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I choose to ride a motorcycle several days a week, and I do so fully cognizant every time I am, quite literally, asking to be killed. I think early on in that odyssey toast12345 or some such talked about having your head on a swivel which I do constantly. I expect some car to turn into me, run into the back of me, etc. constantly.

AND.

I don't have any problems keeping up with traffic. I think similarly if you CHOOSE to exercise on a Bike that CANT keep up with traffic, and you choose to do so on busy, "non-neighborhood" roads, then you fully HAVE to understand that is YOUR choice, and you have to accept that risk. to the extent i can, I give the bike rider a wide birth, exaggeratedly so on neighborhood roads as it costs me nothing; but I too often observe the "cyclist" riding between the cars at a stoplight, going to the front, and not obeying rules the way a car has to.

If you can't ride on the bike path, and instead choose to ride your expensive bicycle on the fog line of the crowded highway parallel to and in sight of the lovely paved bike path, the odd train horns and random dooshings with ice water or the bottom halves of convenience store fountain drinks should be a welcome part of your elite outdoor fitness lifestyle.
Just be sure to bring plenty of electrolytes, especially when the babysitter flakes out on holiday weekends and you have to tow the infants along on your 200 milers.

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Originally Posted by Marshall Tucker

I choose to ride a motorcycle several days a week, and I do so fully cognizant every time I am, quite literally, asking to be killed. I think early on in that odyssey toast12345 or some such talked about having your head on a swivel which I do constantly. I expect some car to turn into me, run into the back of me, etc. constantly.

AND.

I don't have any problems keeping up with traffic. I think similarly if you CHOOSE to exercise on a Bike that CANT keep up with traffic, and you choose to do so on busy, "non-neighborhood" roads, then you fully HAVE to understand that is YOUR choice, and you have to accept that risk. to the extent i can, I give the bike rider a wide birth, exaggeratedly so on neighborhood roads as it costs me nothing; but I too often observe the "cyclist" riding between the cars at a stoplight, going to the front, and notobeying rules the way a car has to.

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Going to the front at stop lights is literally what bike riders are supposed to do where I live.

Hell, sometimes we even paint little green boxes at the front of the line for them to wait in at the front of the line so they don’t get right hooked.

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Originally Posted by Marshall Tucker

I too often observe the "cyclist" riding between the cars at a stoplight, going to the front, and not obeying rules the way a car has to.

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Filtering forward at a light - assuming no bike lane or bike box - is dumb because you force those drivers to pass you again, and they may not be as polite as the first time they passed you. If I'm at a red light with no bike lane, I'll just take the lane and wait with everyone else. New cyclists and young guns haven't figured this shit out yet or don't care.

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Originally Posted by old_newguy

Going to the front at stop lights is literally what bike riders are supposed to do where I live.

Hell, sometimes we even paint little green boxes at the front of the line for them to wait in at the front of the line so they don’t get right hooked.

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Haha, cyclists stopping for red lights. You're killing me here.

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Haha, cyclists stopping for red lights. You're killing me here.

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This

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Originally Posted by jono

You should read the link. Imagining you know others' thoughts is the definition. Defensive projection is just a subset.

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I read the link. Irony is you are basing this all on some supposition about what I'm trying to do--which I thought I made clear wasn't the case. Strike two. Defensive projection indeed.

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

Filtering forward at a light - assuming no bike lane or bike box - is dumb because you force those drivers to pass you again, and they may not be as polite as the first time they passed you.

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This. The drivers that you just passed at the stoplight probably just got done patiently waiting to pass you 2 minutes earlier. Now they have to do it again, and they likely won't be as patient the longer the cycle continues.

Any of you self-appointed “road cops” gonna cite this rider for not sticking close to the rail or for not wearing a helmet?


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Originally Posted by highangle

If you can't ride on the bike path, and instead choose to ride your expensive bicycle on the fog line of the crowded highway parallel to and in sight of the lovely paved bike path, the odd train horns and random dooshings with ice water or the bottom halves of convenience store fountain drinks should be a welcome part of your elite outdoor fitness lifestyle.
Just be sure to bring plenty of electrolytes, especially when the babysitter flakes out on holiday weekends and you have to tow the infants along on your 200 milers.

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There have been several mentions of lovely separate bike paths, and I can assure you that if it was actually all that, we would fucking ride there. The reality, at least around here, is that they're fine for kids learning to ride bikes but are worse for a training ride than cowering on the fog line. These are shitty, bumpy, unmaintained paths that may have nonexistent sight lines, stop signs every time they cross a road (while the main road 20 feet away has the right of way), and tend to have broken glass and garbage on them. Add a jogger or a dog walker (and these days, tents), and those paths just aren't usable.

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Originally Posted by 54-46

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I'd let her filter in my lane.

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Originally Posted by Lone Star

I drive a lot on logging roads. My option as the middle dude between a giant oncoming logging truck and a tiny bicycle riding five feet left of the shoulder is.... my own life.

Vibes to the commuters. and get fucked to all the recreational bikers creating dangerous situations on mountain roads.

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How bad at judging speed/distance/passing safely do you have to be to put yourself between a biker and a logging truck?

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

What about when you're driving and you get hit by a cyclist? Has happened twice to me (once not a big deal, the other had the cyclist flat out on the pavement behind me after he slammed into the back of my car--I had to stop abruptly because of a car in front of me and the cyclist hadn't been paying attention to what was in front of him, which was my car).

When I see cyclists on the ground following an incident with a car I tend to assume they were doing some of the crazy shit they do all the time--running lights without even looking for oncoming traffic (they just assume the cars will give way), riding against traffic, weaving between cars and getting ahead of them at traffic lights. It's too bad cyclists are so exposed, but I usually can't go two minutes in the street without seeing at least one (and usually a few) doing something dumb. But it's just accepted that that's how they operate (probably 50% or more are delivery guys and using e-bikes, but they're still on bicycles).

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Regarding the first paragraph, even if you hit a cyclist and it's 100% your fault, if you weren't drunk there's a 0% chance you'll face charges. Regarding the second, you live in NYC. What you experience on a day-to-day basis is not representative of 99% of the country.

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Originally Posted by smartyiak

Based on your description of this event, I believe that snowboarders should not be allowed to ride bikes.

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Hah! Those guys are undefendable cunts.

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Originally Posted by Marshall Tucker

but I too often observe the "cyclist" riding between the cars at a stoplight, going to the front, and not obeying rules the way a car has to.

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It's not like drivers never ignore traffic laws when it's convenient for them. Also, lane filtering is legal for motorcycles in my state (https://ridetolive.utah.gov/lane-filtering/) so I'll absolutely do it on a bike under appropriate circumstances.

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

Filtering forward at a light - assuming no bike lane or bike box - is dumb because you force those drivers to pass you again, and they may not be as polite as the first time they passed you. If I'm at a red light with no bike lane, I'll just take the lane and wait with everyone else. New cyclists and young guns haven't figured this shit out yet or don't care.

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There's a lot of gray area here. If there's no official bike lane but there's a wide shoulder that's a de facto bike lane I'll go to the front. If there's enough traffic that there's a multi-light wait I'm going up to the front. If it's a low-traffic street with a short signal and I didn't previously obstruct any of the drivers waiting at the light I'm going to the front. Also, as noted it's legal for motorcycles in Utardia so it's reasonable to do it on a bike on a situationally-dependent basis.

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

There have been several mentions of lovely separate bike paths, and I can assure you that if it was actually all that, we would fucking ride there. The reality, at least around here, is that they're fine for kids learning to ride bikes but are worse for a training ride than cowering on the fog line. These are shitty, bumpy, unmaintained paths that may have nonexistent sight lines, stop signs every time they cross a road (while the main road 20 feet away has the right of way), and tend to have broken glass and garbage on them. Add a jogger or a dog walker (and these days, tents), and those paths just aren't usable.

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If you're riding for transportation rather than recreation MUPs usually do suck for all those reasons. Around here they're also usually littered with goatheads.