To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

It's actually Dr Macaroon. I'm not a doctor, but Dr is my pronoun, at least in covid threads.

Yea, the timeline thing makes some sense, but isn't there still some overlap? if you get vaxxed and infected, in whatever order, within a few weeks of each other, then its going to be hard to tell? I mean I guess the label of what caused it doesn't effect treatment, but it should affect our societal approach to it.

You interpret my posts as doubting the vax being entirely safe, which is correct, but keep in mind the things I am saying also invalidate people with long covid who blame it on the vax, or people who blame other people's long covid on the vax. There are those who think long covid doesn't exist. I'm more trying to understand how we can tell the difference more than arguing one side entirely. A lot of my own skepticism comes from how things are being handled from a legal perspective and not even just a medical. Like you can't sue the vax companies for damages because you took it voluntarily. I don't get why thats the case? Especially if its mandated, sure you can quit the job thats forcing you and you aren't 'forced' any more, but its still coercion, and if data has been withheld then it seems like both the informed and consent part are kind of gray areas. When these companies have made such huge sums of money, and taxpayer money off this, then I feel like perhaps we as a society should be handling it slightly different, even if adverse affects are rare they can be quite serious, and it seems like it'd be good to have more of a reasonable dialouge about that. I also open my big mouth so people will tell my things I don't know and I can learn which I admit is a little alien to many.

We've met? Fuck man I don't remember, where/when was that? My bad.

I don't want to be a macaroon any more. I've decided I'm Dr Eclair.

That reminds me, I worked at a national park years ago and there were a few Chinese visa workers. they all chose american names to make things simpler, each of them chose like an actual name, except this one dude, he'd stick out his hand, look you in the eye, and say, "My name is Danish"

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Originally Posted by bennymac

a CT scan is a static set of images (like a bunch of photographs of slices of the tissue) - what exactly are you describing when you say different parts are overactive vs underactive? You can't see "activity" on a garden variety CT scan of the brain no more that you can see activity in a knee joint in a standard xray image.

And can you tell us how often CT scans of the brain (garden variety or otherwise) are used to diagnose conditions like PTSD and schizophrenia?

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They're not used to diagnose, i've said that a bunch of times. They're used to study and understand. The diagnostic criteria for mental disorders are pretty accurate in themselves, and there wouldn't be any purpose that is in the patient's interest to involve needing visist to a hospital to use expensive equipment to cement a diagnosis.

its not measuring activity in the way you think, like temporary thing slike when you watch tv your brain activity is different than when you're reading a book etc, its more permanent states, like one area of the brain is kind of turned off overall, and one is turned on, which is going to be the same whether you're reading a book or jerking off or whatever.

Look up the history of clinical use of magic mushrooms if you really wanna know more. Its pretty amazing actually, how drastically they can reset the brain back to neurotypical brain function. That doesnt entirely 'cure' ptsd, but it makes a gigantic leap that used to take years of therapy. Looking that up will also educate you about using catscans to study and understand different disorders. I've said this before, so I feel like short of me going and finding links, you've got all you need to spend a few minutes reading about it.

Your tone seems to be fundamentally doubting me, which is fine, but go find out for yourself. Magic mushrooms would never have been legalized for clinical use in non terminal patients without this data. If you look you will find quite credible sources, and interesting as well. And if you aren't open minded enough to do that, well, not much I can do for you besdies argue.

Dr. is not a pronoun, it's a title that requires years of formal Education -

you insult a few doctors who are here, giving you information,
while you claim a Medical Reference while not even knowing what it says

( And a title you have not earned.
not in Science. and not in Medicine. )


your junk is junk, leroy.

tj

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Originally Posted by skiJ

Dr. is not a pronoun, it's a title that requires years of formal Education -

you insult a few doctors who are here, giving you information,
while you claim a Medical Reference while not even knowing what it says

( And a title you have not earned.
not in Science. and not in Medicine. )


your junk is junk, leroy.

tj

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Jesus fucking christos bro.

It was obviously a joke. Just like my hypothetical was obviously not a threat. You should maybe lighten up a little francis. I'd offer you a hug but you're probably too scared. It was also obviously a slightly self deprecating joke as well. Like, I called it a pronoun and said i'm not actually a doctor, so I'm not actually claiming anything? You need this explained? I'm starting to realize maybe you a little odd if you don't get that. Thats ok.

My junk is HUGE. Gravitational pull.

The only person I've insulted today is that creaky old fossil iceman and I don't think he's any kind of doctor either.

I admit I'm not an expert on vaccines, far from it, but everything I've said about PTSD and its brain chemistry being measurable on catscans is 100% true, adn the shit you say about it seems to not make any sense.

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Pretty sure a tourniquet will cure covid and long covid complications right leroy??

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if leroy is the tourniquet guy you folks with with any actual med credentials should just file yer nails or something

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

They're not used to diagnose, i've said that a bunch of times. They're used to study and understand. The diagnostic criteria for mental disorders are pretty accurate in themselves, and there wouldn't be any purpose that is in the patient's interest to involve needing visist to a hospital to use expensive equipment to cement a diagnosis.

its not measuring activity in the way you think, like temporary thing slike when you watch tv your brain activity is different than when you're reading a book etc, its more permanent states, like one area of the brain is kind of turned off overall, and one is turned on, which is going to be the same whether you're reading a book or jerking off or whatever.

Look up the history of clinical use of magic mushrooms if you really wanna know more. Its pretty amazing actually, how drastically they can reset the brain back to neurotypical brain function. That doesnt entirely 'cure' ptsd, but it makes a gigantic leap that used to take years of therapy. Looking that up will also educate you about using catscans to study and understand different disorders. I've said this before, so I feel like short of me going and finding links, you've got all you need to spend a few minutes reading about it.

Your tone seems to be fundamentally doubting me, which is fine, but go find out for yourself. Magic mushrooms would never have been legalized for clinical use in non terminal patients without this data. If you look you will find quite credible sources, and interesting as well. And if you aren't open minded enough to do that, well, not much I can do for you besdies argue.

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you inferred a lot from my questions

to be clear I know PTSD is real. I know it doesn't come only from combat trauma. I know there are changes in brain activity and pathways with PTSD/schizophrenia/any chronic mental health or brain disorder. and I know those changes can be seen on any functional imaging of the brain like MRI or PET scans. I was not aware that specialized CT scans could also pick up on it. Hence my questions…

but carry on with the shrooms

PTSD is associated with smaller amygdalas. Is that because of the PTSD and the condition that cause it, or does a smaller amygdala make you more prone to PTSD? https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1105161355.htm

In any case you and I don't have the credentials to make scientific assertions about PTSD or much else without citing at least some supporting evidence. If you actually care about convincing someone you don't get to make an assertion and tell people to look it up for themselves. (Which I did anyways and can find nothing to support anything you say.) Unless you prefer to be ignored. So, bye bye.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Jesus fucking christos bro.

It was obviously a joke. Just like my hypothetical was obviously not a threat. You should maybe lighten up a little francis. I'd offer you a hug but you're probably too scared. It was also obviously a slightly self deprecating joke as well. Like, I called it a pronoun and said i'm not actually a doctor, so I'm not actually claiming anything? You need this explained? I'm starting to realize maybe you a little odd if you don't get that. Thats ok.

My junk is HUGE. Gravitational pull.

The only person I've insulted today is that creaky old fossil iceman and I don't think he's any kind of doctor either.

I admit I'm not an expert on vaccines, far from it, but everything I've said about PTSD and its brain chemistry being measurable on catscans is 100% true, adn the shit you say about it seems to not make any sense.

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are the Units of Chemistry you are measuring brain chemistry in on CATSCANs Units of weight, volume, or number of molecules (?)

( it is a rhetorical question )

tj

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Originally Posted by old goat

PTSD is associated with smaller amygdalas. Is that because of the PTSD and the condition that cause it, or does a smaller amygdala make you more prone to PTSD? https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1105161355.htm

In any case you and I don't have the credentials to make scientific assertions about PTSD or much else without citing at least some supporting evidence. If you actually care about convincing someone you don't get to make an assertion and tell people to look it up for themselves. (Which I did anyways and can find nothing to support anything you say.) Unless you prefer to be ignored. So, bye bye.

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There are some things I care about convincing others about, not much. Really, if people are openminded enough to be convinced, they'll be willing to spend a few minutes looking it up themselves. Theres TONS of research on this, anyone who wants to know will find out.

I'll make whatever assertions I want, and I'll exercise extreme caution about which things I assert to be true, and which things I merely pontificate on, adn strive to make the difference obvious. Feel free to think I'm an idiot, but if you're curious or openminded, you can learn for yourself as information on this is easy to find. If you aren't, I doubt a link will convince you.

Honestly I'm surprised someone else hasn't popped in that knows what I'm talking about and is more willing to go link finding, as I didn't think this knowledge was this obscure.


HEres the link I found. LIterally just searched on bing, adn the first spoonfed answer confirms me. https://www.bing.com/search?q=ptsd+b...c33b71ef0daae6

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Originally Posted by skiJ

are the Units of Chemistry you are measuring brain chemistry in on CATSCANs Units of weight, volume, or number of molecules (?)

( it is a rhetorical question )

tj

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Macaroons.

Oh shit, you almost had a sense of humor there for a moment bro I'm proud of you.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Macaroons.

Oh shit, you almost had a sense of humor there for a moment bro I'm proud of you.

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What is the biological basis of PTSD?
Previous research has shown that people with PTSD have altered brain anatomy and function. This finding provides evidence for prior speculation that the biological basis of psychiatric disorders, such as PTSD, includes a shift in the balance between different signaling systems in the brain.

Though I think you’re arguing with yourself, good news is both of you are winning!!!

I have a question for the smarter people on this board. My 10 year old tested positive a few days after Christmas, which also happened to be 3 days before his scheduled second dose of Pfizer. We cancelled his appointment and figured 1 dose plus infection gave good protection moving forward, especially considering his already low risk. My wife is now thinking it’s time for his second dose, but I’m thinking waiting until the new school year this fall is the way to go. I figure by then they may have reworked the vax to cover current strains. But admittedly I have not really been paying any attention to any of this for the past few months.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

There are some things I care about convincing others about, not much. Really, if people are openminded enough to be convinced, they'll be willing to spend a few minutes looking it up themselves. Theres TONS of research on this, anyone who wants to know will find out.

I'll make whatever assertions I want, and I'll exercise extreme caution about which things I assert to be true, and which things I merely pontificate on, adn strive to make the difference obvious. Feel free to think I'm an idiot, but if you're curious or openminded, you can learn for yourself as information on this is easy to find. If you aren't, I doubt a link will convince you.

Honestly I'm surprised someone else hasn't popped in that knows what I'm talking about and is more willing to go link finding, as I didn't think this knowledge was this obscure.


HEres the link I found. LIterally just searched on bing, adn the first spoonfed answer confirms me. https://www.bing.com/search?q=ptsd+b...c33b71ef0daae6

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OK I clicked your Bing link and the first article to come up is from
MagicMushrooms101.com
https://www.magicmushrooms101.com/sh...on%20to%20fear.

This is your scientific proof Leroy?
Where’s the FOFLAMAO emoji?

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Originally Posted by alias_rice

I have a question for the smarter people on this board. My 10 year old tested positive a few days after Christmas, which also happened to be 3 days before his scheduled second dose of Pfizer. We cancelled his appointment and figured 1 dose plus infection gave good protection moving forward, especially considering his already low risk. My wife is now thinking it’s time for his second dose, but I’m thinking waiting until the new school year this fall is the way to go. I figure by then they may have reworked the vax to cover current strains. But admittedly I have not really been paying any attention to any of this for the past few months.

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We had same situation. 10 year old got one shot, I got covid, he was asymptomatic (we had it in 2020 as well). I skipped the second shot for him. I've yet to see a kid that age have any significant disease burden. I doubt I'll vaccinate him further unless the target moves in a direction of increase disease severity in kids.

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

We had same situation. 10 year old got one shot, I got covid, he was asymptomatic (we had it in 2020 as well). I skipped the second shot for him. I've yet to see a kid that age have any significant disease burden. I doubt I'll vaccinate him further unless the target moves in a direction of increase disease severity in kids.

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I like this move. There have been hardly any bad covid cases with children (unless they had a significant underlying disease) and children are one of the categories most likely to get myocarditis.

(to be clear I'm not an anti-vaxer, I highly encouraged my parents to get it)

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Originally Posted by jfost

What is the biological basis of PTSD?
Previous research has shown that people with PTSD have altered brain anatomy and function. This finding provides evidence for prior speculation that the biological basis of psychiatric disorders, such as PTSD, includes a shift in the balance between different signaling systems in the brain.

Though I think you’re arguing with yourself, good news is both of you are winning!!!

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As I said before, everything that happens in your mind, everything you experience, causes physical changes in the brain. That's how the brain works. In recent decades scientists have developed tools, like functional MRI, that allow them to visualize the physical functioning of the brain, often in real time. Looking at porn and looking at naked pictures of your sister cause increased blood flow in different parts of the brain (at least I hope so) as an example. So it should surprise no one that PTSD causes changes in the brain. It confirms what we've known for a long long time--that thoughts and emotions are the result of physical anatomic processes in the brain. Whether there is a soul distinct from these physical anatomic processes I'll leave to the theologists.

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Originally Posted by PeachesNCream

I like this move. There have been hardly any bad covid cases with children (unless they had a significant underlying disease) and children are one of the categories most likely to get myocarditis.

(to be clear I'm not an anti-vaxer, I highly encouraged my parents to get it)

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The risk of covid to kids is very very low. The risk of the vaccine is even lower. We do know that 3 dose vaccinated people have a lower risk of serious covid. The best argument for vaccinating kids--reducing the spread of the virus--is not as persuasive as it was with earlier variants, since the current vaccine doesn't seem to do much to prevent asymptomatic or mild infection.

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Originally Posted by old goat

The risk of covid to kids is very very low. The risk of the vaccine is even lower. We do know that 3 dose vaccinated people have a lower risk of serious covid. The best argument for vaccinating kids--reducing the spread of the virus--is not as persuasive as it was with earlier variants, since the current vaccine doesn't seem to do much to prevent asymptomatic or mild infection.

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Realizing this is a comparison of relatively small risks, given the above, does vaccinating pre-pubescent boys to 3 doses before puberty present the lowest total risk?

I'm recalling earlier discussions of myocarditis risks being correlated to testosterone levels such that younger boys are safer (from all causes). Which seems to give parents a chance to choose a lower risk option by vaccinating before puberty, assuming the risk associated with vaccination is less than the differential it creates for the sum of all exposures during (and after) puberty.

(I am just a math nerd /standard disclaimer)

Subject of pathological diagnosis and tx for one version of long Covid related to mitochondrial dysfunction and “metabolically-led post-exertional symptoms,” I thought this was an interesting thread by Putrino of Mount Sinai:

https://twitter.com/putrinolab/statu...2azmgNlw_eLgAQ

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Originally Posted by TBS

OK I clicked your Bing link and the first article to come up is from
MagicMushrooms101.com
https://www.magicmushrooms101.com/sh...on%20to%20fear.

This is your scientific proof Leroy?
Where’s the FOFLAMAO emoji?

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Weird, I do not get the same result. Either we're getting different search results or you are intentionally misrepresenting yours.

Admittedly the first link actually seems defunct, bing shows a preview but when you click the link nothing is there. This is the second. https://www.tri.edu.au/news/evidence...-ptsd-patients

I don't see anything about magicmushrooms101.com at all, I don't even see that in the results.

This is one of the links on the first page. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/articl...rug-treatment/

Heres another. https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/m...d/brain-scans/


My bad by the way. They use MRI not catscans. That explains why when I searched PTSD catscan the third result was "Does my cat have PTSD" Although I also did find some articles about using catscans, MRI seems to be the predominant.

Heres a good one, talks about how MRI can show that certain areas of the brain are actually atrophied in someone with PTSD, although it doesn't mention mushrooms fixing that other legit sources do, and you can find them easily if you actually are interested in learning. That point was also ancilarry to my original point which was that PTSD is not psychosomatic. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31515885/ Heres a direct quote "Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) plays a primary role in both structural and functional neuroimaging for PTSD, demonstrating focal atrophy of the gray matter, altered fractional anisotropy, and altered focal neural activity and functional connectivity. MRI findings have implicated that brain regions associated with PTSD pathophysiology include the medial and dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, orbitofrontal cortex, insula, lentiform nucleus, amygdala, hippocampus and parahippocampus, anterior and posterior cingulate cortex, precuneus, cuneus, fusiform and lingual gyri, and the white matter tracts connecting these brain regions. Of these, alterations in the anterior cingulate, amygdala, hippocampus, and insula are highly reproducible across structural and functional MRI, supporting the hypothesis that abnormalities in fear learning and reactions to threat play an important role in the development of PTSD."

Super strange you'd misrepresent your search results or we'd get such wiildly different ones.


WTF is foflamaao? Are you 12?

I don't know why I bother. Anyone who actually wanted to learn would have been curious enough to search this themselves, and none of you contrarians are going to be convinced by anything. This place used to be pretty cool. Not sure why I even wasted my time educating the willfully ignorant this time.

ho ho ho ho ho ho Ho. :wave: skiJ

I had a cat with PTSD when I was a kid. Clawed the heck out of me when my mom turned on the vacuum cleaner.
re mitochondria--there is a theory that mitochondria evolved from bacteria ingested by another kind of cell, giving the host a huge energy advantage as oxygen started to accumulate in the atmosphere. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7356350/
Nothing to do with covid vaccines but a lot more interesting, at least to me.

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Originally Posted by old goat

I had a cat with PTSD when I was a kid. Clawed the heck out of me when my mom turned on the vacuum cleaner.
re mitochondria--there is a theory that mitochondria evolved from bacteria ingested by another kind of cell, giving the host a huge energy advantage as oxygen started to accumulate in the atmosphere. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7356350/
Nothing to do with covid vaccines but a lot more interesting, at least to me.

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That is interesting thanks for sharing.

I used to love how wildly this place would tangent.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Anyone who actually wanted to learn would have been curious enough to search this themselves

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Anyone who actually wanted to convey some info to a pessimistic audience would check their references & confirm that their pontifications were accurate and publicly referenced prior to asserting a suspect hypothesis.

It’s not the reader’s job to guess what you meant

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Originally Posted by old goat

I had a cat with PTSD when I was a kid. Clawed the heck out of me when my mom turned on the vacuum cleaner.
re mitochondria--there is a theory that mitochondria evolved from bacteria ingested by another kind of cell, giving the host a huge energy advantage as oxygen started to accumulate in the atmosphere. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7356350/
Nothing to do with covid vaccines but a lot more interesting, at least to me.

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But related to the recent Twitter thread and some of the journal articles that I’ve recently posted.

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

But related to the recent Twitter thread and some of the journal articles that I’ve recently posted.

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which is fascinating stuff that I very possibly won't live to see the resolution of.
I've been on the edge of medical science long enough to see lots of chemical explanations for things like Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome, Systemic Inflammatory Response Syndrome, Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation begin with epiphanies and turn into rabbit holes. Maybe they'll get lucky with this one. The more we learn about the body the more complicated it gets. (And we know absolutely jack shit about the brain,)

The cool kids are all treating their PTSD offshore with ibogaine.

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

Anyone who actually wanted to convey some info to a pessimistic audience would check their references & confirm that their pontifications were accurate and publicly referenced prior to asserting a suspect hypothesis.

It’s not the reader’s job to guess what you meant

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Its not worth it.

re. ibogaine -
cardiac toxic.
may induce psychosis, schizophrenia; and
may lead to a relapse of drug use...


ugh. ( skiJ )

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Originally Posted by old goat

which is fascinating stuff that I very possibly won't live to see the resolution of.
I've been on the edge of medical science long enough to see lots of chemical explanations for things like Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome, Systemic Inflammatory Response Syndrome, Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation begin with epiphanies and turn into rabbit holes. Maybe they'll get lucky with this one. The more we learn about the body the more complicated it gets. (And we know absolutely jack shit about the brain,)

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In the late 90’s, I used to conduct brainwave experiments on a man in his mid-80’s. He spent every school day auditing classes at the university, mostly biology courses. He had a degree in biology from the late 40’s and did not have a career focused on biological resources. He was continually fascinated by the advances of information in biological sciences. All the elderly human subjects I met in that lab were fascinating.

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

Anyone who actually wanted to convey some info to a pessimistic audience would check their references & confirm that their pontifications were accurate and publicly referenced prior to asserting a suspect hypothesis.

It’s not the reader’s job to guess what you meant

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Well if I remember which things I learn from academic sources and are pretty well proven, and which things are somewhat less proven or just pontification, and I make the difference clear when I say things, then whoever wants to pontificate can join the discussion, and whoever is curious can search the things I say are true and make up their own mind. I think the issue is about not believing what I say more than guessing what I meant no? Basically if there are parts of the brain that are atrophied, PTSD is not psychosomatic. Thats not hard to understand.

I guess I typically avoid pessimistic audiences, and pessimistic people in general. I probably just have a memory of this place as something different and need to process the difference.

I think everyone has gotten more wary of dis and misinformation and more likely to write others off as too something or other, and thats understandable, but I also just get wearing of the "well prove it" attitude towards everything. It just becomes a drag. LIke if you learned something recently you might remember a source, or if its part of your career, but other than that all knowledge is invalid, or you have to rereasearch everything youve ever learned just to have the right to say it. It just seems more efficient and utilitarian to research something yourself if it sounds interesting. I get the feeling I am misreading my audience, and am quite aware most here more have the impression I know absolutely nothing, which is fine. I should stop wasting my time.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

I should stop wasting my time.

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You’ve said this like a dozen times.

So, Moderna x2, Moderna boosted in late November, Covid in January. One of my docs says go for booster #2, her PA says don't.

Friend got some new double shot called Evushield, but it is because he is immunocompromised.

Boost or wait on the next wave?

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Originally Posted by TNKen

So, Moderna x2, Moderna boosted in late November, Covid in January. One of my docs says go for booster #2, her PA says don't.

Friend got some new double shot called Evushield, but it is because he is immunocompromised.

Boost or wait on the next wave?

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do what your doctor advises

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Originally Posted by old goat

do what your doctor advises

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x2

Yeah, I'm leaning that direction. She did say wait 4 months so I'm about in the window.

Having just had omicron. It sucked! Double vaxed and boosted. I’m sure a second booster would’ve made it less sucky. Lots of people I know getting it. Numbers are lowish because testing has been reduced. Pretty sure we’re right at the start of new surge. I’m thinking this thing will settle into some sort of seasonal sickness and we’ll be getting be boosters like the flu shot.

The difference between covid and flu when it comes to a potential yearly vaccine is that there are a fairly limited number of flu strains that vary year by year and which spread slowly enough that the strains for each years shot can be identified and vaccines made before the seasonal surge. We also know from experience that vaccines against the year's strain will be at least partially protective. The virology and epidemiology of flu has been studied for years and is relatively predictable and even then the scientists don't always get the vaccine right.

At least so far it seems that covid is mutating faster and spreading faster so that a new variant could spread rapidly before a new vaccine could be developed. I'm sure Pfizer and Moderna could make Omicron B.2 shots to be ready in the fall. The question is would be if the new vaccine would be effective against the current strain, and would that be the strain in the next surge or would it be something that's resistant. So yearly shots might work, or might not work at all. Too soon to say if we're in for yearly shots it seems to me. And we may yet see a pan-covid or pan-coronavirus vaccine or a nasal vaccine that prevents spread better. Just have to wait and see.

One scenario is that as time goes on more and more people will be exposed to covid as small children and rarely getting sick so that there will be a constant high level of immunity in the population from both infection and vaccination. Obviously that will take decades, but in the interim older kids, young adults, and middle age adults will be infected with still low levels of illness so that there will be fewer and fewer older people getting sick. Or a highly lethal highly infectious strain could emerge and kill everyone on earth in 6 weeks.

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Originally Posted by old goat

The difference between covid and flu when it comes to a potential yearly vaccine is that there are a fairly limited number of flu strains that vary year by year and which spread slowly enough that the strains for each years shot can be identified and vaccines made before the seasonal surge. We also know from experience that vaccines against the year's strain will be at least partially protective. The virology and epidemiology of flu has been studied for years and is relatively predictable and even then the scientists don't always get the vaccine right.

At least so far it seems that covid is mutating faster and spreading faster so that a new variant could spread rapidly before a new vaccine could be developed. I'm sure Pfizer and Moderna could make Omicron B.2 shots to be ready in the fall. The question is would be if the new vaccine would be effective against the current strain, and would that be the strain in the next surge or would it be something that's resistant. So yearly shots might work, or might not work at all. Too soon to say if we're in for yearly shots it seems to me. And we may yet see a pan-covid or pan-coronavirus vaccine or a nasal vaccine that prevents spread better. Just have to wait and see.

One scenario is that as time goes on more and more people will be exposed to covid as small children and rarely getting sick so that there will be a constant high level of immunity in the population from both infection and vaccination. Obviously that will take decades, but in the interim older kids, young adults, and middle age adults will be infected with still low levels of illness so that there will be fewer and fewer older people getting sick. Or a highly lethal highly infectious strain could emerge and kill everyone on earth in 6 weeks.

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Factually incorrect about flu Goat. There are 4 different strains formulated in the Flu vax each year, with much greater genetic diversity than what has been observed for Sars2 so far. They get picked each year based on prevalence in the S. hemisphere during the previous flu season, and even so often do not match the dominant strains that end up causing majority of disease in the N hemisphere, why flu boosters can vary so much in efficacy each year. The biggest difference is how long the world has had to build some preexisting immunity as you rightly pointed out.

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Originally Posted by old goat

Or a highly lethal highly infectious strain could emerge and kill everyone on earth in 6 weeks.

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Mother Nature's reset button. The more I see, the more I think we deserve it.

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Originally Posted by altacoup

Having just had omicron. It sucked! Double vaxed and boosted. I’m sure a second booster would’ve made it less sucky. Lots of people I know getting it. Numbers are lowish because testing has been reduced. Pretty sure we’re right at the start of new surge. I’m thinking this thing will settle into some sort of seasonal sickness and we’ll be getting be boosters like the flu shot.

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So, how do we reduce Covid numbers? Wait, let's pass out free test kits to everyone, so they will know whether or not they have Covid, but since they didn't go to the doc to get tested, it doesn't get reported.

Damn, why didn't I think of that.