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PG ... that’s propaganda. Choose your sources better.
We sheeeit. Guess I had that very wrong. My badQuote:
Originally Posted by GoldMember
Diseases buying Facebook ads!Quote:
Originally Posted by huckbucket
Haha as if...Quote:
Originally Posted by huckbucket
I'm sure it's Andrew Wakefield approved.
FIFYQuote:
Originally Posted by huckbucket
Not quite yet probably.......I am sure there is some more red tape to further delay the actual delivery of the vaccine into arms...Quote:
Originally Posted by huckbucket
It “is” the weekend and those old bastards need to rest up. They seem to like the drama of playing it out to get the public outrage of “what’s taking them so long”...(which I believe they have achieved already)
God forbid a meeting on the weekend....or a Monday....or any weekday before noon.
I know, right? He's giving PCP a bad name.Quote:
Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark
As a healthy 20-something year old I’m at the back of line, so I won’t be able to get a jab til late next year probably.
Out of curiosity, something I haven’t seen discussed here is the possibility of long-term auto-immune side effects from an mRNA vaccine. The whole point (as I understand it) is that mRNA vaccines in some ways act like a virus itself, by hijacking the bodies cells to make proteins that look like the virus, but aren’t, to stimulate an immune response and create antibodies that will recognize the virus, which looks like the proteins the vaccine helped create.
What happens if that keeps going on (or messes with cell reproduction in unexpected ways)? Maybe not true but I feel like I recall reading something about part of the reason why COVID is a bitch is because various parts of the virus have a lot similarities to human proteins. Which would lend even more concern to auto immune questions, or the body becoming confused about what proteins/cells are and aren’t intruders.
Saying that the vaccine is “safe and effective” because there are no serious side effects 6 months later doesn’t really mean anything. If you injected 30,000 healthy people with the HIV virus, you wouldn’t have serious side effects in anyone for 5-10 years, let along 6 months. Does that mean HIV is safe? No. Lots of auto immune disorders are incredibly slow. And we really don’t understand what causes many of them. People with MS likely “have it” long before they actually become aware of what’s happening. We don’t know what causes that, what causes ALS, what causes most auto immune conditions.
As others mentioned, no mRNA vaccine has ever gotten out of animal trials. We have safety profiles for traditional vaccines, and with those we basically know that if you don’t see any issues right away, the vaccine is likely safe, because we have decades long safety profiles and thoroughly understand them and how they effect the body. There are hardly short term safety profiles for mRNA vaccines (creating them as we speak), let alone medium term or long term safety profiles for mRNA vaccines.
Personally, I may consider waiting for a traditional vaccine technology option for COVID. I’d have 0 qualms about taking one. The Astrozenica one (not mRNA, but still new tech) also seems (on the surface) like it may have less possibility of long term unintended side effects. mRNA vaccines are an unknown, and there is no way around that. That doesn’t mean that they are dangerous, or will cause any long term problems in any way, but I’d be curious if anyone can explain, or has a scientific study/paper that can explain why there isn’t a risk of long term problems? Because if there are long term side effects that show up in 2-10 years, the world is completely and totally fucked. Imagine if 70% of the population gets a chronic auto immune condition. It’ll make 2020 look like a rough first day of preschool.
There’s a reason the FDA usually takes agonizingly long to approve any medical procedure, drug, treatment, vaccine, etc. Even when it’s extremely clear that it’s safe/effective/not that complicated how it works.
I may be totally off base, perhaps because mRNA is so fragile, and not DNA, it gets worked out of the system shortly after it causes the cells to create the antibodies? And there is no possibility of lingering affects on cellular reproduction?
I’m certainly not an anti-vaxxer, I got my flu shot yesterday. Not because I’m concerned if o catch the flu, but because I understand that vaccinating everyone, even those not at risk, provides protection for the vulnerable and makes the entire population healthier. I understand they are clearly extremely beneficial and important to society. And I’’m planning on getting a COVID jab. Maybe not an mRNA one though. I would like to have some reasonable scientific assurance that the above concerns aren’t valid before I’d take an mRNA one.
And I’m not talking about the current societal impetus/need for a vaccine now because of the current death toll, economic problems, etc. I understand it. I have plenty of friends and extended family who work in hospitals. I’m aware of the COVID hell that’s going on. But I question whether this current hell, where mostly people over the average life expectancy are the ones dying (not that that is okay), would be better than risking the entire population’s health with something that we don’t really know how it will affect us long term? Maybe there isn’t a risk. I don’t know. It seems that using the mRNA vaccines for the elderly and high-risk people now, makes a ton of sense, because the virus is a much bigger threat to them and they don’t really have nearly the same concern of whether the vaccine could cause problems 5-10 years from now. Doing so will relieve a huge majority of the burden off the health care system and ICU units, and allow them to cope with fringe cases in the non-at risk population. And give time with masks and social distancing to A) develop traditional vaccines and/or B) create a longer safety profile for mRNA vaccines before giving it to every single person... Beyond that, I don’t know if society is being hasty...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile..../idUKKBN27E0GD
Attachment 352525
I believe in getting immunity the old-fashioned way: By letting a bat virus take control of my lungs and turn my face into a disgusting plague fountain while my immune system desperately Googles 'how to make spike protein antibodies'
Wasn't he the "other guy" in Wham?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-Ungulate
Muggydude--according to this https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/o...us-relief.html the mRNA makes one copy of the spike protein and is then destroyed. Unlike DNA, mRNA is not self replicating. Once each molecule mRNA in the 2 doses has produced one molecule of spike protein, no more protein is produced to elicit an ongoing immune reaction. Unlike a live virus infection like HIV infection, no part of the vaccine induced immune process is replicating--unless and until the subject is exposed to live coronavirus, in which case the immune reaction kicks and my producing more antibody and killer T cells.
All vaccines and natural infections produce an immune response. Your concern is that vaccination could produce an autoimmune response, and there is some evidence that it can https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...%E2%80%9397%5D
but keep in mind that natural infection can do the same thing--because it produces the same immune response as vaccination.
Waiting for a "traditional" vaccine would not protect you from an autoimmune reaction. The swine flu vaccine caused Guillain Barre Syndrome in 1/100,000 recipients. Influenza itself can cause GBS.
There is no guarantee that there will be a "traditional" vaccine. The Sanofi-GSK recombinant protein vaccine--which uses a technology currently used in some flu vaccines--is delayed due to lack of an immune response in older people. The vaccine is being reformulated to increase the antigen dose, but by the time it is ready for phase 3 trials it may be difficult to recruit volunteers when a proven vaccine is already available. The same problem confronts any vaccine that is not already in Phase 3.
If you aren't vaccinated the odds are very high that you will be infected with SARS-CoV-2 with the risk of death, permanent disability, or the induction of an autoimmune disease.
I have friends who over a month later still don't have all or any sense of smell back. Fortunately, that seems to be the only lingering thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCarter
Relieved to see my high risk MIL who is in an assisted living home will be getting the V soon.
After spending most of the last year taking care of many, many incredibly acutely ill Covid-19 patients in my ICU, many of whom are now dead?
Fuck yeah I'm getting it. Most of my fellow RNs and the techs, and pretty much all the Docs say the same.
I laughedQuote:
Originally Posted by bennymac
This. Should hit my ER this week. They are trying to figure out scheduling so not every nurse gets it the same day and is out with a fever the next.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrublover
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Being the altruistic chap that I am I think I'll hold off on getting jabbed myself until 100% of the essential workers & vulnerable population are vaccinated. Then, I'll defer to citizens of 3rd world countries without access to proper healthcare, sanitation, etc. Once the 3rd world is covered, as a Caucasian I feel that I would be exploiting my white privilege if I didn't wait for 100% of the non-white population to receive the vaccine. Further, it would be a clear expression of bigotry were I to receive the vax before LGBTQ+ and other marginalized groups. Finally, when it is eventually appropriate for healthy white people living in America to get vaccinated (from a social justice perspective, of course) I'll put misogyny aside and allow the ladies to go first.
So it'll probably be a long time before I can get the vaccine without asserting my privilege as a white male in America. By the time we get there, we should have a much clearer idea of any longer term effects of a novel mRNA vaccine that's never even been tested on humans before this year. I'll be hanging around bloviating about my moral superiority while you guys are lined up to participate in what is essentially a clinical trial.
Bon chance, bigots!
I personally know two people that had covid and now have no antibodies.
Huh
Did they survive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
Just trying to narrow down the possibilities.
My son is a surgery resident so I wouldnt think high on the list, but his hospital is treating the ER first because it's full of people who may or may not have Covid and arent as well isolated as people on the Covid wards. Similarly the nurses and doctors aren't as well protected as they are on the covid wards, and since he spends a lot of the time in the ER seeing surgical stuff he's supposedly right behind the people seeing the covid patients.
I guess a lot of worry about giving shots to the nursing home patients some of whom are likely to die of whatever shortly thereafter and blame the vaccine. And the vaccine wasn't tested on them so it's unknown if the dose is high enough for that population. I think they should still do it (slightly more importantly so does the CDC) but people need to be prepared to hear negative stuff coming from the nursing homes.
They need to do it to clear the hospitals along with bringing sanity back to those facilities. 1 percent of population holding down 40% of the hospital beds. That has implications for everybody.
Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
And, to contrast: "White House staff members will be among the first to be vaccinated." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/13/w...accinated.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by bennymac
“Will be”?Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
I’m sure they were already vaccinated
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/vacci...ium%3Dsharebar
Canada introduces national compensation program for vaccine injuries ahead of pandemic vaccine rollout
People who are vaccinated to protect themselves against COVID-19 and experience an adverse event after the immunization will be eligible for compensation, the federal government says.
The announcement of the no-fault program is part of Canada's preparations to roll out coronavirus vaccines, beginning with the Pfizer-BioNtech version that will start to be administered next week.
Health Canada says it approves vaccines after its thorough review of scientific evidence shows that the benefits outweigh the risks.
Is there actually anyone left in the White House who hasn't already had COVID-19 thanks to all the dipshits present who participate in super spreader events and refuse to wear masks?Quote:
Originally Posted by AK47bp
I've never had a flu vaccine in my life. Being self employed I just stayed away from filthy germy disease ridden humans in the winter.
But I will take this one, (as long as it doesn't kill and maim and shit...).
They're going to help us out? That's white of them. (Should I be capitalizing "white" in this context?)Quote:
Originally Posted by bennymac
If the south succeeds, would they qualify as a 3rd world country? Maybe that's the 3d chess move here?Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
You mean secedes?Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSapp
Nope! The south will rise again!!Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
My south rises nightly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soups
Yes. My phone autocorrect apparently doesn't like talk of rebellion.Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
It autocorrects "Civil War" to "War of Northern Aggression."Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSapp
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennymac
People who are vaccinated to protect themselves against COVID-19 and experience an adverse event after the immunization will be issued 10 Tim Hortons Roll Up The Rim to Win coffee cups.
yep, we are getting our dates staggered as well, and being encouraged to have it when you'll have the day/next day free in the event of feeling like shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by ffmedic84
got myself in for the 18th. will report back, assuming the delivery dates actually work out.
see Canada has the right idea. Hold those accountable, accountable. If this vaccine is safe and effective, they shouldn’t have to worry about any large payouts; just the minimal adverse reactions that were shown from the small sample trial size.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennymac
If only that applied to the US. American pharmaceutical companies who have a history of fucking over a minute part of the population if it will make them a little more profit. Sure you could take them to the Vaccine Court but since it’s been in session in 1988, it’s only paid out $3.5 billion dollars. Yeah that might seem like a lot until you look at the profits every pharmaceutical company posts each and every year.
First vaccine
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/Accomplish...himpanzee.webp