To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

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Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick

How is this a problem? If the person is positive (and assuming not an outright false positive), how is that an issue of concern.

They are certainly positive and if not contagious it certainly is a better way to error than to call them negative when they are actually contagious, right?

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Adolf nailed it. Context is everything.

"Vaccines don't work"
"Asymptomatic spread is a huge problem"
Under-estimation of R and the follow-on minimalization of the importance of every single vaccination

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Re breakthroughs.

There is now a body of data that suggests double vaxxed people are 85-88% protected against symptomatic disease from Delta, and 96% against hospitalization.

But that means 1 in 8 vaccinated people will still get breakthrough cases, "mild" is subjective but vaxxed typically have 40% less virus at peak viremia. So also less likely to transmit as well.

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Is the 12 percent, or 1 in 8, cumulative infections, ie over many years?

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There is no hope for a certain white entitled selfish and ignorant segment of the population. They are simply against the principle of an agenda...no matter the merit.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/stat...656972808?s=19

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Originally Posted by uglymoney

There is no hope for a certain white entitled selfish and ignorant segment of the population. They are simply against the principle of an agenda...no matter the merit.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/stat...656972808?s=19

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Well, at least he's got his convictions figured out. Basically he won't get the vaccine because those in authority want him to get the vaccine. Are these people adults or two year olds? :rolleyes:

This response in that feed is pure gold

Attachment 380129

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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

"Coug'n it!"

Dude should not be allowed to coach at WSU and certainly not set foot on any other campus or travel via airplane



I think it's good to provide context to the "positive" tests for the breakthrough cases because it makes people falsely think the vaccines don't work.

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That’s nonsense.

You haven’t thought that through.

So you raise the sensitivity and get fewer positive tests. In addition to losing asymptomatic infections that wont be contagious from vaxed you will lose those with low level infections that will later become infectious.

Bad result.


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Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick

That’s nonsense.

You haven’t thought that through.

So you raise the sensitivity and get fewer positive tests. In addition to losing asymptomatic infections that wont be contagious from vaxed you will lose those with low level infections that will later become infectious.

Bad result.


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I see what you're saying. Redefine what "infected" means to only identify those with active cases that are infectious. That seems reasonable.

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Originally Posted by The AD

Well, at least he's got his convictions figured out. Basically he won't get the vaccine because those in authority want him to get the vaccine. Are these people adults or two year olds? :rolleyes:

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This is what I'm wondering. The number of grown-ass people acting like fucking petulant children is disturbing.

But maybe this is not a *new* phenomenon, but is now more publicly apparent?

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Originally Posted by neufox47

I wonder what it is like to be so obtuse you cannot see the difference between a system that produces incremental improvements vs something that is completely effective.

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So the goalposts are down to "incremental improvements" now? That's quite a jump from statements like the CDC director claiming that masks might provide more protection than a vaccine: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/16/cdc-...-vaccine-.html

Somehow I don't recall all the mask hysterics talking about incremental improvements?

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Masks, especially when worn by the infected, reduce transmission. Masks also reduce the viral load the uninfected receive when around the infected. This can be demonstrated using basic physics and experimental tests. Additionally, it is supported by over 100 years of use in the medical community. To refute the demonstrable and accepted protection of masks, we would need a significant and robust study to demonstrate their ineffectiveness. No such study exists.

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The mechanistic studies are useless if masks don't actually help prevent spread in the real world. The data is clear at this point - there is no correlation between mask use and COVID spread.

The best study we have on masks and the the spread of respiratory viruses is this one: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
"Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza."

And we have a number of studies that find masks have no benefit in the medical community either:

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD002929.pub2/epdf/full
"Three trials were included, involving a total of 2113 participants. There was no statistically significant difference in infection rates between the masked and unmasked group in any of the trials."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...01509-0009.pdf
"No masks were worn in one operating theatre for 6 months. There was no increase in the incidence of wound infection."

https://journals.lww.com/clinorthop/...t%5C_as“
"The wearing of a surgical face mask had no effect upon the overall operating room environmental contamination...”

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf...41076815583167
"Overall there is a lack of substantial evidence to support claims that facemasks protect either patient or surgeon from infectious contamination."

https://www.ayubmed.edu.pk/JAMC/PAST/21-2/Zahid.pdf
“No significant difference in the incidence of postoperative wound infection was observed between masks group and groups operated with no masks. There was no increase in infection rate in 1980 when masks were discarded. In fact there was a significant decrease in infection rate.”

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf...057X0102900402
"The evidence for discontinuing the use of surgical face masks would appear to be stronger than the evidence available to support their continued use... There is little evidence to suggest that the wearing of surgical face masks by staff in the operating theatre decreases postoperative wound infections."

There's more, but you get the idea.

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If masks (and social distancing) do not work, then what is the explanation for the all time low flu infections last year?

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Masks clearly have nothing to do with low flu infections because flu is down everywhere, regardless of mask usage. Viral interference theory makes the most sense to me.

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Originally Posted by ron johnson

The best study we have on masks and the the spread of respiratory viruses is this one: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

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Best study? Lol. Did you even read that link? Please go on.... you're really making some sort of point here.

Please don't egg on the white noise troll.

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Originally Posted by Carl_Mega

Best study? Lol. Did you even read that link? Please go on.... you're really making some sort of point here.

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Heh. That's where I stopped, too. At least he makes it easy to know what to filter: as soon as he offers a conclusion or opinion you know the rails are someplace in the rearview.

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Originally Posted by Carl_Mega

Best study? Lol. Did you even read that link? Please go on.... you're really making some sort of point here.

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Huh? It's a meta-analysis of 14 RCT's. What do you have that's better?

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Originally Posted by The AD

I guess one of the requirements when they hired him was he had to be just as dumb as Mike Leach.

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i don't suppose the university has the cojones to temporarily suspend his paycheck until he complies with university requirements

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Originally Posted by The AD

I guess one of the requirements when they hired him was he had to be just as dumb as Mike Leach.

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LOL!

Don't respond to king shithead and he goes away. That's best for everyone.

sent from Utah.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pfize...elta-1.6113014

The study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday, confirms headline findings given by Public Health England (PHE) in May about the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca, based on real-world data.

The research team found that two doses of Pfizer's shot was 88 per cent effective at preventing symptomatic disease from the delta variant, compared to 93.7 per cent effective against the alpha variant, broadly the same as previously reported.

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Originally Posted by Carl_Mega

Best study? Lol. Did you even read that link? Please go on.... you're really making some sort of point here.

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According to that study, you shouldn’t wash your hands either! Not surprising Ron Johnson is literally smearing shit everywhere he goes. What a dumbass. For those that may recall the global warming thread, this is the same guy who didn’t understand basic statistics nor could he read a graph.

“Masks clearly have nothing to do with low flu infections because flu is down everywhere, regardless of mask usage. Viral interference theory makes the most sense to me.”

I missed this gem too. Of course the village idiot thinks that COVID infections are the reason the flu is down. Yea, didn’t you know such significant portions of the population got Covid that everyone is immune to the flu now? Ron Johnson is about to win 3 Nobel prizes, first for disproving global warming despite not understanding math or science, the second for discovering masks and hand washing are ineffective and the third for discovering that Covid eradicated the flu.

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Re breakthroughs.

There is now a body of data that suggests double vaxxed people are 85-88% protected against symptomatic disease from Delta, and 96% against hospitalization.

But that means 1 in 8 vaccinated people will still get breakthrough cases, "mild" is subjective but vaxxed typically have 40% less virus at peak viremia. So also less likely to transmit as well.

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effectiveness means that given an equal number of folks vaccinated and unvaccinated, 88% of the folks who show up symptomatic will turn out to not have had the vaccine.

this is very different than "1 in 8 people will still get sick"

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Originally Posted by neufox47

According to that study, you shouldn’t wash your hands either! Not surprising Ron Johnson is literally smearing shit everywhere he goes. What a dumbass. For those that may recall the global warming thread, this is the same guy who didn’t understand basic statistics nor could he read a graph.

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That shouldn't be a surprising finding since we know that COVID isn't spread through surfaces. Is your head so far in the sand that you still don't know this? Still wiping down your groceries?

This is the classic nuefox response. Whenever I make a post he has no counter to he reverts to talking about how I misread ONE graph out of the hundreds I've posted. 900 posts and it's all anyone has on me.

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Originally Posted by neufox47

“Masks clearly have nothing to do with low flu infections because flu is down everywhere, regardless of mask usage. Viral interference theory makes the most sense to me.”

I missed this gem too. Of course the village idiot thinks that COVID infections are the reason the flu is down. Yea, didn’t you know such significant portions of the population got Covid that everyone is immune to the flu now? Ron Johnson is about to win 3 Nobel prizes, first for disproving global warming despite not understanding math or science, the second for discovering masks and hand washing are ineffective and the third for discovering that Covid eradicated the flu.

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I don't have much of an opinion on why the flu has disappeared. All I know is masks have nothing to do with it.

These are my favorite parts;

"... the mechanisms of person-to-person transmission in the community have not been fully determined."

"Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group."

But kudos to the authors for pulling together a meta-analysis of shitty individual studies. What could go wrong?

Garbage in - garbage out.

In papers and in the brains of people with zero experience assessing the quality of studies but still were given confidence from their parents that they could do anything! Just do your own research! Anyone can do it.

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Both doses of any combo of vaccines.

One dose is looking 33% protection. If anyone went J&J, you might want a second dose of a different flavor.

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You recommend just one shot of either M or P as a follow up to j&j or get both of them? What about interval between? My wife got the j&j in April. What would mofro do?