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[QUOTE=Kinnikinnick;6358661]Lot's of insurance plans already do this though. They don't phase it as a higher rate for unhealthy people. They give a "discount" if you link your fitbit, garmin, etc and meet fitness goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCarter
The point is that society could wake up and say “hey we don’t want to insure your health costs related to your motorcycle accident because it’s 27x more likely to result in a serious injury or death”.
Take you pick of other risky or not socially desirable activity. Skiing, mountaineering, etc
The issue for these risky behaviors and smoking/obesity comparisons is that there isn’t a two shot treatment that provides 90%+ reduction of risks for those activities. If there was a vaccine that eliminated 99% of deaths from wing suiting I bet insurance companies would require it for coverage.Quote:
Originally Posted by old_newguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_newguy
So be it. You feel kinship with others who want to offload their risk to society because you want to offload your own. Too bad. Accept the risks you create. That's what personal responsibility means and you can't keep a free society without assigning responsibility to those who are free to choose.
Isn't that kind of the case with life insurance? Skyrocketing costs or straight up denials of coverage if you're into things such as skydiving.Quote:
Originally Posted by old_newguy
Versus what?Quote:
Originally Posted by huckbucket
Mandating vaccinations at the federal level?
You argue against it without proffering any viable alternative to save society those same costs. Financial incentive to vax = 0
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Well, it’s pretty easy to say “we aren’t covering your care because you are a smoker, eat like shit, etc” but I’m pretty sure we just fought a huge political battle so we don’t have to think about pre-existing conditions now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder
I mean, it incurring an injury skiing is easy. Just don’t ski. That’s 100% effective.
(I’m 100% vaccinated by the way, I just think that this approach is highly unlikely to get the response you are looking for. You are just going to get stupid shit back like “healthcare insurers don’t have to cover injuries incurred at a protest” etc)
People are only interested in how much healthcare costs them. They could care less how much healthcare costs society.
Not sure I understand this comment. There's actually a very large societal incentive to vax as I explained. Just as there's an incentive to quit smoking. Maybe you mean something different? And I support the French model of "incentivizing" vaccination in order to engage in public because this avoids the dreaded "mandate" word and still gives people the freedum they desire. However, we all know red states will fight back on such a proposal with every idiotic bone in their body.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick
Seems like it's been used that way for the last century, so I think that definition is pretty entrenched into the English language at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by CS2-6
(for the record the woman in the commercial pronounces it "nor-mal-a-see." She probably also refers to "ath-a-letes." :))
Comparing life insurance with health insurance on any level is inappropriate. One is essential and the other is a luxury.Quote:
Originally Posted by MontuckyFried
“Societal incentive?” You mean social pressure? Thats precisely the opposite of the antisocial Behavior that defines the unvaxxed. Only afraid of the chance of side effect on themselves or in full frontal obstinate resistance to doing whats right for society.Quote:
Originally Posted by huckbucket
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Arkansas for example has forbidden healthcare providers from requiring employees get vaccinated until 2 years after the vaccines are fully approved. Two years. What are the odds you get any traction if you try to force it via financial incentives?
As I said, we should have national laws that prevent the unvaccinated from mingling in high-density locations. So not social pressure but actual laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick
You think the unvaxxed are anti-social? It's pretty clear that rising case rates across the country, but specifically in regions where vaccination rates are lower disproves this.
Ok. Fair enough. With health insurance though, doesn't one typically pay higher premiums if they're a smoker/drinker?Quote:
Originally Posted by huckbucket
Anti social behavior doesnt mean that they dont socialize, thats Asocial behaviorQuote:
Originally Posted by huckbucket
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-social_behaviour
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Of course. There are tiered levels of insurability based on lifestyle and a full-on health exam including blood tests.Quote:
Originally Posted by MontuckyFried
Proposing such a thing for health insurance is extremely complicated. For example, how could fairly distinguish between predisposing conditions versus lifestyle habits in order to adjust cost? That's one of 50 issues although I'm sure health insurance companies have been probing this concept for a long, long time as a means of dropping high-risk clients.
Right. My comment still stands. Can't be social pressure alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick
Both products use actuarial data to insure profitability. And I have seen both life and health insurance described as luxury products. Which do you see as a luxury?Quote:
Originally Posted by huckbucket
I think you can guess based on my response to MF.Quote:
Originally Posted by wooley12
Many believe healthcare is not a right so like most yes/no questions the answer is "It depends".
Anyhoo, only 10% wearing masks at my local Kroger's and they were giving away free bottles of Kroger branded disinfectant at the checkout. The clerk who wore an industrial strength mask for the past year seemed to think the pandemic was over. The mask I was wearing has a German idiom that means "THE WORST IS YET TO COME" but I didn't tell her.
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]How about reckless skiers, which is a redundant phrase to non skiers?Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdude2468
Yep. Many feel that way. And vote accordingly, universal health care is socialism they cry!Quote:
Originally Posted by wooley12
But when they get sick from covid because they are also anti vax, well, all of sudden their tune changes.
sent from Utah.
It's not that simple--people get vaccinated and a month later cases fall.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
First of all--until delta came along, one vax was good protection. Second--the first people to get vaccinated were HCW;s and nursing home patients--the highest risk for contracting the virus and the most frequently tested. No doubt there have been changes in behavior that may influence rates but I don't believe there has been a significant change in behavior between the winter peak and the summer low. No doubt increase opening and decrease masks this summer have contributed to the rise in cases but not as much as delta. My guess is that without delta we would have seen a plateau, not a continued fall.
Yeah, Americans are only against socialism for others.Quote:
Originally Posted by basinbeater
Getting back to vaccines for a moment, an open question to the fully vaxxed collective: how comfortable are you in public places - especially indoors - mingling with the teeming masses?
Where I am, everywhere other than medical facilities and restaurants, covid protocols have pretty much ended. Social distancing is a thing of the past, and mask usage is maybe ten percent.
Are you confident that you're well enough protected by immunization to forego the mask while indoors with the unvaccinated?