To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

Are we stupid enough to deny the amazing benefits of vaccines 1.0 and not invest in vaccines 2.0 like nasal and universal coronavirus vaccines? Based on the reading comprehension of people like Percy, the answer is yes we are:

"And vaccines still matter. Although existing vaccines no longer offer the protection they once did, given new variants, they still help prevent severe illness in many people, particularly among those who receive boosters. “None of these variants we have seen so far has been able to completely evade our immune system,” Weiskopf said. While existing variants can evade antibodies, “all of them are recognized by our T-cells—the second line of our immune system,” she said. That’s what keeps an infection from progressing to severe illness. And the genes defining our T-cell response are the most diverse in all of the genes that the human body has, Weiskopf said—which means vaccines, even when they don’t prevent infection, will continue to help keep many of us safe."

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Originally Posted by Percy Rideout

Stop blowing holes in the vaccine mandate crowd's narrative.

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What holes? The vaccines reduce hospitalizations and deaths and make a big impact on being able to keep hospitals operational. Is it is going to create herd immunity? Not at this time, but that was NEVER the goal of the first round of vaccines.

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Originally Posted by liv2ski

Thx for the kind comment. My wife tested negative 36 hours ago and I woke up feeling good today. Sore throat, headache, cough and runny nose all gone. I hope to test negative by the weekend. I did save the verbiage needed from a Dr if needed though, but I hope not.

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Have you really been traveling around Europe *with* a positive test AND COVID symptoms? I mean... I'm hoping that you really haven't been doing that. Set me straight, man.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

That's uplifting.

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Definitely not, but it seems to be a pretty accurate take on the situation.

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Originally Posted by funkendrenchman

What holes? The vaccines reduce hospitalizations and deaths and make a big impact on being able to keep hospitals operational. Is it is going to create herd immunity? Not at this time, but that was NEVER the goal of the first round of vaccines.

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His was a confounding take given the article end as such:

"Her words echoed in my ears. As I began work on this piece, the number of known U.S. Covid deaths officially passed one million. If 100,000 Covid deaths were an “incalculable loss,” what is 10 times greater than incalculable? Yet the memorials organized by local authorities or published by mainstream newspapers dropped quietly into a country where almost no mandates for precautions remain in place. Nationally, we have largely succumbed to the urge to move beyond the pandemic, even as it rages around us, a strategy that cannot continue forever.

How long will we keep the memory? The memory of everything and everyone we’ve lost, the memory of what worked to keep us safe and could still help us in the future, if only we remember what’s at stake. If we cannot or will not remember, the virus will continue reminding us every few months."

We've mentioned this before, but Covid is sort of the perfect storm for killing lots of people. Most people infected suffer only minor symptoms for a few days, so on a percentage basis, the number of people hospitalized or killed by the disease is small--but it infects so many people that on a gross population level those numbers add up. The end result is it becomes much easier for people to conclude that Covid isn't really a big deal compared to a more virulent disease like, for example, Ebola. A disease like Ebola can't be ignored. It kills so many people quickly that people have to take it seriously. As a result Ebola epidemics tend to burn themselves out fairly quickly. In contrast Covid is a slow burn.

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Originally Posted by Falcon3

Well shit. 26 months dodging this shit and not even a close call. Just found out some folks I did dinner with yesterday tested positive this morning. They felt fine yesterday and one developed symptoms overnight, other one has no symptoms.

Hope my vaccines hold the line!

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Ugh, I'm in the same boat. My elderly mom caught Covid a few days ago (from a caregiver; amazing that this never happened up until recently). I ended up having to take her to the ER for antibodies infusion, and was stuck sitting in a small hospital room with her for a couple of hours while she complained pretty much constantly. I was wearing a good fitting 3M N95, but still... I'm isolating, more or less, masking etc... and waiting nervously. Glad my booster is nice and fresh. (And, incredibly, it's looking like mom will survive; yes, she's vaxed.)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...droidApp_Other

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Originally Posted by The AD

We've mentioned this before, but Covid is sort of the perfect storm for killing lots of people. Most people infected suffer only minor symptoms for a few days, so on a percentage basis, the number of people hospitalized or killed by the disease is small--but it infects so many people that on a gross population level those numbers add up. The end result is it becomes much easier for people to conclude that Covid isn't really a big deal compared to a more virulent disease like, for example, Ebola. A disease like Ebola can't be ignored. It kills so many people quickly that people have to take it seriously. As a result Ebola epidemics tend to burn themselves out fairly quickly. In contrast Covid is a slow burn.

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If people were bleeding from their eyeballs, everyone would be lining up for vacininations in their ballsack if necessary -even if it was deadly. Covid is in a sweet disease space that most people don’t see the really bad effects first hand. At least not enough to scare people enough to do something

Offhand/matter of fact Twitter comment from Center of Disease Control and Prevention with no helpful follow-up or guidance about what to do
“As of May 30, 2022, national forecasts predict 1,800–5,400 new #COVID19 deaths will likely be reported during the week ending June 25. That would bring the projected total number of U.S. deaths to 1,012,000–1,024,000.”

https://twitter.com/cdcgov/status/15...MAtND4akFTNETQ

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Originally Posted by funkendrenchman

What holes? The vaccines reduce hospitalizations and deaths and make a big impact on being able to keep hospitals operational. Is it is going to create herd immunity? Not at this time, but that was NEVER the goal of the first round of vaccines.

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That is 2020-early 2021 talk.

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

Offhand/matter of fact Twitter comment from Center of Disease Control and Prevention with no helpful follow-up or guidance about what to do
“As of May 30, 2022, national forecasts predict 1,800–5,400 new #COVID19 deaths will likely be reported during the week ending June 25. That would bring the projected total number of U.S. deaths to 1,012,000–1,024,000.”

https://twitter.com/cdcgov/status/15...MAtND4akFTNETQ

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What do you want them to say? Everyone knows what to do by now. Everyone knows how to mitigate risk and who is at the highest risk.

But let's hope it is not at the high end of that estimate.

I do not think everybody knows what to do. I observe the misunderstanding daily. Misunderstanding the hazard and risk. I hear plenty of times from intelligent and critical thinkers (coworkers) that they’re fine because their vaxed, they can’t spread the disease because their vaxed, they can’t catch or spread because their vaxed and have already (probably) been infected. Info like this cdc projection is buried.

Many coworkers intentionally worked at my office today because it was likely the last time they would be able to work there unmasked.

For some reason, it seems that people think that 5 days after a positive test and they’re good to go. Kaiser says 10 after a positive w/o testing and you’re good to go (which doesn’t make sense).

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

I do not think everybody knows what to do. I observe the misunderstanding daily. Misunderstanding the hazard and risk. I hear plenty of times from intelligent and critical thinkers (coworkers) that they’re fine because their vaxed, they can’t spread the disease because their vaxed, they can’t catch or spread because their vaxed and have already (probably) been infected. Info like this cdc projection is buried.

Many coworkers intentionally worked at my office today because it was likely the last time they would be able to work there unmasked.

For some reason, it seems that people think that 5 days after a positive test and they’re good to go. Kaiser says 10 after a positive w/o testing and you’re good to go.

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I think they know. We know.

Some people are just resistant, the anti mask crowd like they've been since the beginning.

I think the rest of us are just exhausted and burnt out from the barrage of information and stress. We're becoming desensitized due to over stimulation.

I'd sure like a break. I was lucky in March in travelling, but I've never dropped my mask protocol outside the home. Got it anyway due to our teenager.

I don’t think they know. They stopped paying attention and listening. Burn out is definitely a factor, but unclear, conflicting, and confusing recommendations is another.

Alameda County re-instituted a mask mandate that starts tomorrow. CalPoly SLO and UCSB have them, too. Apparently, the public schools near those universities have followed suit.

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Originally Posted by supermodel159

That is 2020-early 2021 talk.

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Wrong. Vaccines still reduce the severity of infection.

I should probably be more careful but I'm using a mask indoors based on how close I'm going to be to people and for how long, although the 6ft/15 min rule is probably irrelevant for omicron. (It probably was irrelevant for heirloom covid too.) That could change. I sure would be wearing one if I were working a shift at a cash register. Uh, make that a card reader.

^^^Me too.. covering up when I perceive I'm stuck in a zone with a lot of recently used air.

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

I do not think everybody knows what to do. I observe the misunderstanding daily. Misunderstanding the hazard and risk. I hear plenty of times from intelligent and critical thinkers (coworkers) that they’re fine because their vaxed, they can’t spread the disease because their vaxed, they can’t catch or spread because their vaxed and have already (probably) been infected. Info like this cdc projection is buried.

Many coworkers intentionally worked at my office today because it was likely the last time they would be able to work there unmasked.

For some reason, it seems that people think that 5 days after a positive test and they’re good to go. Kaiser says 10 after a positive w/o testing and you’re good to go.

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I mean, they were just parroting what the CDC was telling them early on. We are starting to see the effects of what misinformation from federal agencies does to a populace at large. Don't make those claims (vaxxed can't get COVID, vaxxed can't spread covid) if you just don't know yet.

CDC lost what credibility they had left when they went from 10 day isolation to a 5 day isolation when everyone (vaxxed or not) came down with Omicron in January 2022, and "the science" needed revision in order to not collapse a first world society due to everyone testing positive concurrently. Lots of people saw right through that farce, and the booster rollout subsequently suffered because of it.

You are correct Captain Obvious. People are stupid and easily sold by the lies you just regurgitated. Duh.

I’ve upped my indoor game. Been reading for a while that gov recorded cases is significantly lower than known cases because of home testing, but I am having first hand experiences and observations of that due to outbreaks at my kids’ two schools and the 3 schools that my wife works at.

Also, reading mofro’s description that the 15 minute rule should not apply to omicron ba1 (timing is shorter because of increased transmissibility), ba2.12.1, ba4, and b5 are more transmissible than than ba1, and knowing multiple people and kids that have been infected when outdoors, including only brief times in crowded outdoor areas. The n95 that I’ve been using does not fog my glasses, which has been a revelation.

The grocery stores that I typically use had large outbreaks with staff this winter where both had to cut down their open hours and ran on skeleton crews. Some of the staff were miserably sick at that time, They’ve talked about it, “that was horrible. Worse than any flu or cold I’ve had. I don’t want to go through that again.” None were hospitalized that I’m aware of. Both stores tried to enforce fairly strict mask rules for staff and customers. No staff wear masks now.

I think I’ve finally entered cyborg stage. Got Covid over Xmas and it kicked my ass. Once that lifted I have felt healthy as an ox despite the following in the last 2 months:

- Trip to Austin: found out upon returning that all of my friends I stayed with had Covid;
- Trip to LA for conference: had 15 one-on-one meetings there and 6 subsequently tested positive.
- Trip to Vegas for conference: insane super spreader event. People I was cramped into a corner of the bar with for 3 straight nights all tested positive.
- In car with MIL for one hour as she hacks a lung. Turns out it was Covid.
- Coaching baseball. 5 out of 11 kids positive at some point, all of which I’m with 3 times a week
- Concert with an overnight at hotel that includes traveling with friend, sharing various herbal implements and small spaces whereafter he tests positive.

I’ve tested the whole time to make sure I’m not just asymptomatic, but I believe I have ascended. I’m going to go gargle some hooker teeth to keep up my immunity.


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Only a matter of time, likely for the rest of our lives at this point, I suppose. But I’m happy to be doing well with this wave.


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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Have you really been traveling around Europe *with* a positive test AND COVID symptoms? I mean... I'm hoping that you really haven't been doing that. Set me straight, man.

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Not that I give a rats ass what you think, but we did follow CDC guidelines. Both of us tested negative and we are having a great time. Thanks for your help.

When I look at the cdc guidance for being Covid +, i find a quarantine and isolation calculator. I don’t see any recommendation about testing yourself to determine if you are still contagious. I’ve seen and heard multiple SMEs indicate that this calculator can result in somebody unintentionally spreading covid w/o knowing and they think they are doing the right thing.