Electric Bike Thread

Ever notice how urban people who only spend small amounts of time in the forest get so jacked up about any little thing “destroying” the forest....but people who live and work in the forest manage not to get all bunched up about tire tracks or “erosion”. There’s a fire in the woods....oh god it’s DESTROYED! There’s a rut in the trail, oh god it’s been DESTROYED!!! Somebody shot target practice, it’s DESTROYED

Meanwhile that’s literally every day, every hour, stuff in a small town farming or logging area. CONSTANT DESTRUCTION....call your congressman, keep everyone who’s not into artisan coffee and craft beer and “silent sports” 10 miles away at the closest. END THE DESTRUCTION

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I know this isn't the argument but druther have dirt & ebikes than horses on the trails but I dont want to open another can of worms drift on this thread :tongue: But really I think they are clearly motorized and so can't be allowed on non motorized trails.

It's pretty cut and dry here in Teton County- They are allowed where motorized is allowed and not where not.
There was some concern about them not being allowed on the pathways and that would have been a travesty since our pathway system here is incredible and we have terrible summer congestion during peak traffic hours.
So far it's been ok and I haven't heard much about mis-usage on trails but then again we also have a good # of motorized access trails too (andrew sits on the local pathways board so he gets to hear all the dirt/ complaints)
It was also called out around here a yr or two ago that some ecyclists were not aware that it was considered motorized. I'm sure that is an easy response to say but also I bet there is some level of ignorance to the distinction since, well, we know people are dumb

I do agree w/ TahoeJ et al that it's a dream come true for bike hating advocates and we need to be careful to not put our trail access at jeopardy bc then all cyclists lose out.

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

I want a super powerful e trike for winter, and I want to do mad donuts with it.

I'm not kidding. I do actually want this.

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who doesn't want to do that?

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Originally Posted by b-bear

I know this isn't the argument but druther have dirt & ebikes than horses on the trails but I dont want to open another can of worms drift on this thread :tongue: But really I think they are clearly motorized and so can't be allowed on non motorized trails.

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Yeah, well...

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Originally Posted by GoldMember

....Now my really big bitch are the horses. If you take your dog hiking and it shits on the trail, the expectation is for you to bag it and haul it out. Horse riders? Not so much. I am constantly dodging horse shit in the middle of the trail and am not always successful.... Damn horses should be required to pick up their own shit. :)

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

Mixed feelings on TAMBA. Some of the fixes here and there have been good in terms of drainage in the Spring, but many of the new trails are boring and sidewalk wide. The Ocelot re-route above Tahoe City, for example. It's kinda fun but kinda boring too. The old one was a mess but you could go blasting through the rocks and mini drops going mach looney and it was pretty fun. Whereas Fast Eddie's is clearly *not* a TAMBA trail and provides nice variety. Same with some of the new stuff up near Tahoe Donner.

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I much preferred the old ocelot - I'm not sure it even had a name prior, but whatever. It was a good, but short wake up climb and fun to blast down. I find the new winding version boring as fuck both directions and I'm a wuss on downhills so that's sayin something. I'm tempted to clear out the old straight shot just so the option is there. I'm mixed on the elevator shaft re route since I never rode it much, but stick to putting in new trails and minor repair rather than messing w existing trials. Haven't seen the new Stanford rock route yet

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Originally Posted by b-bear

I know this isn't the argument but druther have dirt & ebikes than horses on the trails but I dont want to open another can of worms drift on this thread

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Hey eastcoaster - those cowboys been ridin' horsees for years in this valley. It was all youz easterners that have phucked up our way of life and driven the cost of everything thru the roof. Take your skis, mtn bikes and shove 'em

That may have been said in '89...and before that and after. And shit, there were only about 10 women in all of Jackson at that point.

Horses will always have the right of way.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Except he's trying to make some semantic point about the morality of using a motor to get to the top. It's a terrible argument. Shuttleable descents are a small subset of the total pool of non-motorized trails, and ebikes don't change the percentage of descents accessible by vehicle shuttles. Whereas, 100% of trails are accessible to ebikes.
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To be clear, I said I usually pedal one lap on the dh shuttle trails . I figure I can ebike pedal almost(not quite) 3 laps with the same workout or I could shuttle 6
I also said I was theorizing how they could be used with no conflict. I also said they wouldn’t be good to use for our out and back alpine rides , because of conflict, and I didn’t think they would be good on our 2 way xc trails
I repeated all of that^^ atleast twice so I figure you’ll cherry pick something I’ve posted to fit your bias. So carry on.

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Hey eastcoaster - those cowboys been ridin' horsees for years in this valley. It was all youz easterners that have phucked up our way of life and driven the cost of everything thru the roof. Take your skis, mtn bikes and shove 'em

That may have been said in '89...and before that and after. And shit, there were only about 10 women in all of Jackson at that point.

Horses will always have the right of way.

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I can hear the cowboy voice you are using for this too lol
yea they will always have the right of way but their presence is less and less on the trails every yr, which is nice. for better or for worse there are just less of the old ranching type here than there was.
My best friend is a horse owner and so I get that's it's another way to enjoy neature and have fun, so I don't get bent out of shape about it. just druther'ing

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

I got pretty tired muscling a RM PowerPlay around on the flats and downhills on a tech bit of singletrack but wasn't breaking a sweat on the gravel club where I could spin very lightly and yell STRAVA to warn people to get out of MAH WAY GODAMNNIT. Shimano motor. 50lb bike so i expected it to be a handful on the DH

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The Rocky isn't a Shimano motor, it's an all in-house design. It uses a motor from their eVox bikes in their "mousetrap" design.

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Hey eastcoaster - those cowboys been ridin' horsees for years in this valley. It was all youz easterners that have phucked up our way of life and driven the cost of everything thru the roof. Take your skis, mtn bikes and shove 'em

That may have been said in '89...and before that and after. And shit, there were only about 10 women in all of Jackson at that point.

Horses will always have the right of way.

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http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/c...ept-11-049.jpg

The trails on galby that are bike only would be pretty shitty to hike and nearly impassable to a horse...

The walkers and trail runners still complain and not many show up at trail days.

There is one rad lady that rides galby on her horse fairly often and she is a great ambassador for horse folks and she comes to work days.

For some trails I wish they would allow ebikes with the motor switched off (instead of banning them entirely). A bunch of the local loops have a dirt road up and then a singletrack down. I'm happy riding the whole loop since I like the workout but people obviously shuttle it (legally, assuming the trail itself is legal). I'd rather see a few guys (and gals) riding up on ebikes and then riding down the trail with the motors off than deal with a bunch of cars going back and forth to run a shuttle. On the down the motor isn't going to make any difference anyway (except weight).

Though if people start using ebikes to climb predominately "down" singletrack that's normally too steep to climb I'm going to get annoyed.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

All the arguments about ebikes being the same as shuttles, or ebikes making things too easy, or how much the bikes cost, are entirely missing the point.

If people want to ride ebikes, that's fine. Have fun.

But they're not mountain bikes because mountain bikes don't have motors. Glossing over that fact and treating them like they're mountain bikes is going to get trails closed for everyone, and it's going to make it harder to open new trails. Maybe there needs to be a new user classification between mountain bikes and dirt bikes, but that's for the ebikers to sort out with the land managers. Until then, ebikes are motorized vehicles, and they need to stick to moto legal trail.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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Well put.

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

Ever notice how urban people who only spend small amounts of time in the forest get so jacked up about any little thing “destroying” the forest....but people who live and work in the forest manage not to get all bunched up about tire tracks or “erosion”. There’s a fire in the woods....oh god it’s DESTROYED! There’s a rut in the trail, oh god it’s been DESTROYED!!! Somebody shot target practice, it’s DESTROYED

Meanwhile that’s literally every day, every hour, stuff in a small town farming or logging area. CONSTANT DESTRUCTION....call your congressman, keep everyone who’s not into artisan coffee and craft beer and “silent sports” 10 miles away at the closest. END THE DESTRUCTION

I

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I spend months at my cubicle building up my idea of what the woods look like and/or should be, reading my john muir books at night before bed. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let reality conflict with that when I show up in my #vanlife sprinter I've been building out for 2 years. I will not let you interfere with my wilderness experience!

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Originally Posted by rideit

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/c...ept-11-049.jpg

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obviously they dont have the right of way on trails that they are prohibited from being on altogether. figured that was a given
we are lucky with our handful of user designated trails though where one doesn't have to worry about it

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Originally Posted by grinch

To be clear, I said I usually pedal one lap on the dh shuttle trails . I figure I can ebike pedal almost(not quite) 3 laps with the same workout or I could shuttle 6
I also said I was theorizing how they could be used with no conflict. I also said they wouldn’t be good to use for our out and back alpine rides , because of conflict, and I didn’t think they would be good on our 2 way xc trails
I repeated all of that^^ atleast twice so I figure you’ll cherry pick something I’ve posted to fit your bias. So carry on.

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I think I confused your posts with some of californiagrown's, sorry.

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Originally Posted by b-bear

obviously they dont have the right of way on trails that they are prohibited from being on altogether. figured that was a given
we are lucky with our handful of user designated trails though where one doesn't have to worry about it

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I know, but I couldn't resist the snark!

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

Ever notice how urban people who only spend small amounts of time in the forest get so jacked up about any little thing “destroying” the forest....but people who live and work in the forest manage not to get all bunched up about tire tracks or “erosion”. There’s a fire in the woods....oh god it’s DESTROYED! There’s a rut in the trail, oh god it’s been DESTROYED!!! Somebody shot target practice, it’s DESTROYED

Meanwhile that’s literally every day, every hour, stuff in a small town farming or logging area. CONSTANT DESTRUCTION....call your congressman, keep everyone who’s not into artisan coffee and craft beer and “silent sports” 10 miles away at the closest. END THE DESTRUCTION

I

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Heh, this. I'd be happy to show anyone concerned about the impact of e-bikes a few of the USFS/DNR sanctioned clearcuts near my house. It's amazing the damage a D8 and a Timbercat can cause in an afternoon.

Attachment 241771
Here's a photo from a recent hike I did. Photo taken in a former whitebark pine/subalpine fir forest on a ridgeline in the East Cascades. Mixed Private/DNR Land. At least 1000 acres scorched earth style logging. Meanwhile the bike purists are concerned with bicycles that go slightly faster than normal, and the USFS/DNR are busy trying to crack down on unsanctioned trails because of the "impact"(?) they cause. Go figure.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Ebikes are illegal on all non-motorized USFS (and BLM) trails.

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Outside of Park City and maybe some Moab trails, I wonder if this is enforced at all in Utah. Hell, other than some citizen policing by mtn bikers, I doubt there’s much ebike enforcement at all. I’ve seen ebikes on Crest a few times and on Big Water just a few weeks ago. I bet none of the riders had any clue they were breaking the law.

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

heh, this. I'd be happy to show anyone concerned about the impact of e-bikes a few of the USFS/DNR sanctioned clearcuts near my house. It's amazing the damage a D8 and a Timbercat can cause in an afternoon.

Edit, here's a photo from a recent hike I did. Photo taken in a former whitebark pine/subalpine fir forest on a ridgeline in the East Cascades. Mixed Private/DNR Land. At least 1000 acres scorched earth style logging.

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The flip side is in a lot places rural folks, especially hunters and anglers, are some of the most committed conservationists anywhere. I'd bet groups like Ducks Unlimited and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation do more and are more concerned habitat than the combined efforts/donations of urbanites. Smaller rural land owners often set aside acreage for habitat too.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

The flip side is in a lot places rural folks, especially hunters and anglers, are some of the most committed conservationists around. I'd bet groups like Ducks Unlimited and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation do more and are more concerned habitat than the combined efforts/donations of urbanites. Smaller rural land owners often set aside acreage for habitat too.

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You have to understand that a lot of these groups full of urbanites and their donations don't actually genuinely care about what they say they care about. A staff member of winter wildlands recently walked out of a collaborative stakeholder meeting in Northern California regarding snowmobile management. Why did he walk out? Because the local xc skiers/snowshoers were actually coming to agreeable scenarios on management with the snowmobilers and they didn't agree with this guy who lives 6 hours away who just wanted as many closures as possible.....all while claiming to the be the 'voice of local human powered backcountry users'. They come up with a mission and reality be damned they're just going to do what they do because that's what they do. A director of a local OHV group asked someone from the California Wilderness Association basically 'when is there enough Wilderness'. The answer was 'well our donors say they want more wilderness'. Hammer sees only nails kind of thing. It's a joke. A sad joke that screws up the lifestyles of people who have sacrificed a lot to live close the areas they love. Very little of it based in reality, or data. When you never see the woods, you have no idea what 'normal' is.

aint really got a dog in the fight
but if i put any motor on the sup or driftboat i wont be able to float motor less waterways
and im not seeing much difference on land

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

Heh, this. I'd be happy to show anyone concerned about the impact of e-bikes a few of the USFS/DNR sanctioned clearcuts near my house. It's amazing the damage a D8 and a Timbercat can cause in an afternoon.

Attachment 241771
Here's a photo from a recent hike I did. Photo taken in a former whitebark pine/subalpine fir forest on a ridgeline in the East Cascades. Mixed Private/DNR Land. At least 1000 acres scorched earth style logging. Meanwhile the bike purists are concerned with bicycles that go slightly faster than normal, and the USFS/DNR are busy trying to crack down on unsanctioned trails because of the "impact"(?) they cause. Go figure.

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Just because some land is clear cut doesnt mean other land shouldn't be protected.

There are so many variables...

It should be totally ok to run motos in the wilderness and through salmon streams (hey some people don't know better) and make alpine meadows into rutted out mud bogs because... logging.

How bout build some moto trails on that clear cut?

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

The flip side is in a lot places rural folks, especially hunters and anglers, are some of the most committed conservationists anywhere. I'd bet groups like Ducks Unlimited and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation do more and are more concerned habitat than the combined efforts/donations of urbanites. Smaller rural land owners often set aside acreage for habitat too.

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Fuck Ducks unlimited and other "conservation" groups who hide behind a thinly veiled attempt for private land grabs and rich urbanite donors.

Sorry, carry on with ebike argume.....err discussion.

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Originally Posted by shirk

The Rocky isn't a Shimano motor, it's an all in-house design. It uses a motor from their eVox bikes in their "mousetrap" design.

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Oh yea you're right. All proprietary so when something blows up you've better hope you're close to a Rocky dealer with parts.

I've heard some French Briancon Portes riders have gotten screwed getting orphaned without parts

I can't ride my bicycle, the motor is broken!!


Sorry......that's really funny.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

I can't ride my bicycle, the motor is broken!!

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I feel that way far too often.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Doh...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlZKbPin...=13nd8w8t6p18k

eBikes are for fags and the handicapped.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

eBikes are for fags and the handicapped.

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So you must have a couple of them.




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I fucking hate ebikes. But you teed it up so nicely, and I like both "fags" and the "handicapped", so get bent.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

eBikes are for fags and the handicapped.

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Agreed

Attachment 241787

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

eBikes are for fags and the handicapped.

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As a gun fag and someone terminally lazy when it comes to cardio, I am very excited about the idea of having a downhill bike that pedals itself uphill. Eagerly awaiting a 200mm+ travel class1 e-bike.

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Originally Posted by lifelinksplit

Fuck Ducks unlimited and other "conservation" groups who hide behind a thinly veiled attempt for private land grabs and rich urbanite donors.

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If your beef is similar to Woo's then that makes sense. My experience is less forest and more farmland. There are a lot of small one acre or so ponds and sloughs that would otherwise be drained for arable land if it wasn't set aside. Then there are strips of forest at the edge of fields that serve as big game and pheasant habitat, etc. The wider strips, especially, are often conservation easements.

No doubt some of the money comes from urban donors but a lot of it comes from fund raising efforts like duck stamps, fish fries, and raffles, along with matching donations from local businesses.

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Originally Posted by reckless toboggan

So you must have a couple of them.




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I fucking hate ebikes. But you teed it up so nicely, and I like both "fags" and the "handicapped", so get bent.

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Clever, fag.

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

As a gun fag and someone terminally lazy when it comes to cardio, I am very excited about the idea of having a downhill bike that pedals itself uphill. Eagerly awaiting a 200mm+ travel class1 e-bike.

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You are a lazy fag.

Meat bike > Ebike

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Originally Posted by jetski

Meat bike > Ebike

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Because it tastes delicious I bet

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Originally Posted by skifishbum

aint really got a dog in the fight
but if i put any motor on the sup or driftboat i wont be able to float motor less waterways
and im not seeing much difference on land

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Move along old fellah. Last time you rode a bike you crashed it and fucked yer shoulder.
Go on now

Future so Bright

How many folks dreaming about brapping up and bombing down have actually ridden one of these things? They're heavy and awkward.

If you can't find one to ride, just watch any e-bike porn vid currently being passed around.

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Originally Posted by bagtagley

How many folks dreaming about brapping up and bombing down have actually ridden one of these things? They're heavy and awkward.

If you can't find one to ride, just watch any e-bike porn vid currently being passed around.

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2008: "45 pound DH bikes are stupid. We really need to lighten these things up."

2018: "45 pound Ebike? Sign me up!"

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Doh...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlZKbPin...=13nd8w8t6p18k

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He couldn't figure out how to remove the rear wheel? What a tool.

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Originally Posted by bagtagley

How many folks dreaming about brapping up and bombing down have actually ridden one of these things? They're heavy and awkward.

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I think some are anticipating that eventually they will improve and get lighter.

But, yeah. I've seen people riding them downhill (illegally on the Tahoe Rim Trail, I should add) and they looked sluggish and extremely un-playful. I'm not sure if it's the total weight so much as how it's distributed?

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Doh...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlZKbPin...=13nd8w8t6p18k

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My position on e-bikes will change considerably if I can get helicopter rides out of it!