Electric Bike Thread

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I would assume most of them are going to be older MTB folks who have ridden around the block a few times and know the etiquette.

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Can’t agree with this, if it was true then the people riding golf carts would mostly be elderly, but they certainly are not. I see more older people walking then young at most courses. Given the opportunity to avoid exercise in order to participate in an activity, it seems most people will jump at it. So legalize ebikes on all mtb trails and you will soon see most people on ebikes, and I suspect that they will mostly be new riders who wouldn’t have considered going on those trails if they had to do so under their own power. Now whether or not that actually makes any difference to how they interact with others, I have no idea, but saying it will be ok because they will mostly be ex pedallers is just wrong.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Again, why do people assume that e-bikes will be blasting by hikers on the climbs instead of slowing down to pass like normal human beings do?

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For the reason already given. Trails are increasingly being designated as uphill only due to hiker complaints because bikers are blowing past them on fast downhill sections after the hiker steps aside. Why wouldn't it happen going uphill too with ebikes? Sure, ebikes are unikely to bowl hikers over, obviously, but the faster uphill approach speeds will be more startling and alarming.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I assume that because of the price point to enter the market. People shit there pants when i tell them to budget $2000 for an entry level MTB. When the entry level E-MTBs are going for 2,3,4 times that, the sticker shock is going to keep the casual or curious user away. ?

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Prices are going to come down as battery technology most certainly has.
That argument may have some current validity, but not much future validity.

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Originally Posted by eldereldo

Can’t agree with this, if it was true then the people riding golf carts would mostly be elderly, but they certainly are not. I see more older people walking then young at most courses. Given the opportunity to avoid exercise in order to participate in an activity, it seems most people will jump at it. So legalize ebikes on all mtb trails and you will soon see most people on ebikes, and I suspect that they will mostly be new riders who wouldn’t have considered going on those trails if they had to do so under their own power. Now whether or not that actually makes any difference to how they interact with others, I have no idea, but saying it will be ok because they will mostly be ex pedallers is just wrong.

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I think there is a very large difference in exercise between walking 18 holes with a push cart at a VERY leisurely pace, versus riding a bike for 2-3000 vertical ft over 10-15 miles with the motor only helping 15%. Along with the high cost of entry i dont see the "younger" or inexperienced crowd as the main user group. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the coming years.

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Originally Posted by rideit

Prices are going to come down as battery technology most certainly has.
That argument may have some current validity, but not much future validity.

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As has been said before, everything about an e-bike is more expensive. All components need to be burlier, the battery + motor, carbon fiber everything so you arent muscling around a 40+lb behemoth. the price of the battery will come down a bit, along with the overall price, but i wouldnt ever expect the cost to be less than double what a comparable spec level MTB to cost.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

So, at one point there was a very obvious line stating no machines on the trail.

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What does this mean to you? Do you intend the word "machine" include bicycles or are you saying that "no machines on the trail" means no machines which are powered by a non-living source? The former would be a misstatement of the facts, but maybe you are just using machine in place of motorized?

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The risk of losing access is very real if e-bikes continue to poach trails as they are lumped into MTB as a whole and if you cant easily tell the difference between motorized vs not motorized then everyone risks losing access. And to me that is the only legitimate reasoning against riding e-bikes on trials at this time.

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See Dantheman.

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Originally Posted by GoldMember

H.R. 1349 was introduced to rectify the USFS action that outlawed MTB use in Wilderness Areas so that issue could be resolved through legislative action. It's still in committee, I believe but our friends at IMBA aren't very helpful:

“As we gain ground in these efforts, we feel it is unwise to amend the Wilderness Act—one of the nation’s most important conservation laws—when the outcome mountain bikers desire can be reached through on-the-ground collaborative efforts.” They also unequivocally state, “IMBA is not supporting H.R. 1349.”

https://www.singletracks.com/blog/tr...es-wilderness/

It would seem IMBA has taken a stance that is opposite to their professed goal of gaining and maintaining access for mountain biking. If they take this kind of stance against mountain bikes in wilderness areas, I don't think anyone could depend on them for advocating for access for e-bikes. HR 1349 will hopefully get its day in legislation since having the USFS change a 20 year old law by regulatory action was overreach. What really gets me about IMBA's action on this legislation is that they reversed course on STC and testified against their testimony after having previously agreeing to present a unified front and not be in conflict with one another. IMBA back-stabbed STC on this and the HR languishes in the meantime. Not a good look for IMBA as I see it.

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I think technically HR1349 is out of committee, but can't get a vote on the floor because IMBA (an organization whose decisions are utterly controlled by and reflect the views and votes of only 15 people) came out in opposition. So, yeah. IMBA is a 4-letter word.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I think there is a very large difference in exercise between walking 18 holes with a push cart at a VERY leisurely pace, versus riding a bike for 2-3000 vertical ft over 10-15 miles with the motor only helping 15%.

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Fifteen percent? Is the 15% an example of how ebikes are not really any faster than a regular bike but can go twice as far in half the time? Or how ebikes are good for the elderly and disabled or people who can't handle strenuous activity but still provides an excellent workout?

There might be scenarios where riders only utilize 15% of the motor's assist but the reality is an ebike's 250 watts is more than what even a fit rider can sustain for long periods, let alone only 15%.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

As has been said before, everything about an e-bike is more expensive. All components need to be burlier, the battery + motor, carbon fiber everything so you arent muscling around a 40+lb behemoth. the price of the battery will come down a bit, along with the overall price, but i wouldnt ever expect the cost to be less than double what a comparable spec level MTB to cost.

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Conversely, there will always be self entitled assholes with money riding like jerks.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

this is all assuming that e-bike riders will be riding too fast for the conditions, and generally be assholes though. Why do you assume that the e-bike riders wouldnt ride too fast for the conditions, slow down when passing, alert you they want to pass on climbs, etc? I would assume most of them are going to be older MTB folks who have ridden around the block a few times and know the etiquette.

IMO, inconsiderate people partake in every activity. Aggro strava XC guys elbowing past me on single track climbs, bros on full DH bikes blasting by hikers and equestrians, hikers not allowing bikers to pass on climbs, etc. If we only looked at the worst behavior, then nothing would be legal anywhere.

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Nothing to do with attitudes or anything else. It's just that, in my estimation, there's a potential speed incompatibility that could lead to conflicting interests and hence, more safety concerns and more problems in keeping trails open. In our state, and this is very recent law, it's been decided that e-bikes are motorized vehicles and have restrictions put on them accordingly.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Why would anyone assume older more experienced riders are more drawn to ebikes than inexperienced riders

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Because that’s who I’ve seen riding them.

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

Because that’s who I’ve seen riding them.

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Except for shop rats borrowing them.

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

Because that’s who I’ve seen riding them.

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Industry people say it's mostly boomers and people in their 20s who are driving the market. It makes sense in both cases, one group is growing older and the other grew up with electronic devices.

In any event, the sentence might seem ambiguous if the second half is ignored. The intent was not old vs young but instead experienced vs inexperienced regardless of age. From that perspective it doesn't really make sense to say something like experienced MTB riders are choosing ebikes while inexperienced riders are choosing MTBs.

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

Because that’s who I’ve seen riding them.

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On mountain bike trails or in town/city paths?

Apparently I'm not the only one concerned with the speed and potential conflict it could create.

"Traditional mountain bike advocates said the debate must be cast in concrete terms, since allowing certain motors will make the difficult job of enforcement even tougher.. Ashland resident Brian Forestal, a member of the mountain bike association’s Blackstone Valley chapter, opposes opening nonmotorized trails to e-bikes because of the speeds they generate.

“And when there is a conflict with other users on a trail, that bike won’t be labeled as an e-bike, but as a mountain bike,” he said. “When the land manager has to decide how to make the problem go away, it will be to ban mountain bikes, not just e-bikes.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/re...mHK/story.html

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

Because that’s who I’ve seen riding them.

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Saw my first ebike in the wild on the E. Sammamish bike trail Sunday. Huge bike with a rack, passed by as I waited for my wife. We start up again, and after seeing about 5 thousand other cyclists, walkers, baby stroller people, etc., he was the only one who blocked half the trail with his thing as he was waiting for something on the trail.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

Saw my first ebike in the wild on the E. Sammamish bike trail Sunday. Huge bike with a rack, passed by as I waited for my wife. We start up again, and after seeing about 5 thousand other cyclists, walkers, baby stroller people, etc., he was the only one who blocked half the trail with his thing as he was waiting for something on the trail.

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You going to be ok homie? We should lock them all up!!

I just thought it fit in this thread. I'm sure he was older and more experienced.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I just thought it fit in this thread. I'm sure he was older and more experienced.

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Probably figured you for an older more experienced rider who could avoid stationary obstacles visible for hundreds of feet. I guess he figured wrong?

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I just thought it fit in this thread. I'm sure he was older and more experienced.

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Burn! Sorry couldn’t resist. My lack of self restraint. Wait til I get one of those fs ehorses. OUT OF CONTROL!!

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Probably figured you for an older more experienced rider who could avoid stationary obstacles visible for hundreds of feet. I guess he figured wrong?

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If you want to be viewed as an asshole you are making great progress. Just sayin.

we've gone down almost all the rabbit holes- let's add in 3 wheels and police and see what happens
https://www.outsideonline.com/232515...l-beaches-cali

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Probably figured you for an older more experienced rider who could avoid stationary obstacles visible for hundreds of feet. I guess he figured wrong?

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I'm sure he would have if he looked up from his phone and was only slightly self-aware and considerate like the other 5 thousand or so other trail users I saw that day. Dude's a douche. It's prolly not related to the bike. Maybe it is.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I'm sure he would have if he looked up from his phone and was only slightly self-aware and considerate like the other 5 thousand or so other trail users I saw that day. Dude's a douche. It's prolly not related to the bike. Maybe it is.

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Your experience is more or less in line with my only sighting of an ebike in the wild - a portly gentleman on an e-fatbike with no helmet and wearing jeans, bragging about how many miles of trail he just rode (all of which were closed to motorized vehicles).

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I've only had maybe 2 run ins with ebikes. One was an older guy with his daughter(on reg bike) in klondike bluffs super friendly. Other was a younger dude hauling up the bike path up teton pass. I was really afraid and had to stop at the coach to calm my nerves:rolleyes2.

Just felt the need to add nothing constructive to this really important thread.

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Originally Posted by b-bear

we've gone down almost all the rabbit holes- let's add in 3 wheels and police and see what happens
https://www.outsideonline.com/232515...l-beaches-cali

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Needs pic to save clickings. Max. 35 mph, weighs 98 pounds.
Attachment 242326

click click

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Originally Posted by plugboots

Needs pic to save clickings. Max. 35 mph, weighs 98 pounds.
Attachment 242326

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Id ride it. Cornering would suck, but then again there would be no need to corner, really, ever on that thing. If it was fully matte black, id mistake it for the batcycle.

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Originally Posted by Not bunion

If you want to be viewed as an asshole you are making great progress. Just sayin.

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If you are taking to heart what is said in passing on an internet ski website during the dog days of summer, then you might be the asshole. Just sayin.

it does look fun but then again if it has wheels I'm gonna like it no matter what

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Your experience is more or less in line with my only sighting of an ebike in the wild - a portly gentleman on an e-fatbike with no helmet and wearing jeans, bragging about how many miles of trail he just rode (all of which were closed to motorized vehicles).

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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Weird. Mine wasnt wearing a helmet, either. Was on lower expresso, rode around the rock roll thing.

I cant remember what he was wearing but prolly 50s and a bit overweight.

eBike just went by up hill. Peddling like I do when I'm dreaming.

SMH looks like another page should have this puzzle solved. Does iceman rip on an e bike in jeans.........and no helmet?

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Originally Posted by wooley12

eBike just went by up hill. Peddling like I do when I'm dreaming.

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Were they wearing a helmet?


Someone should go to mtbr and make a poll asking if anyone has seen an ebiker in the wild and if they were wearing a helmet.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

This is some funny shit. This thread is a PRIME example of the non ebikers having the MASSIVE BUTTHURTZZZZzz. Lmao!

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Yes, this exactly.

Attachment 242339

00

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

Were they wearing a helmet?


Someone should go to mtbr and make a poll asking if anyone has seen an ebiker in the wild and if they were wearing a helmet.

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Yes he was. You can relax. I don't wear a helmet unless I'm racing. And I'll wear jeans if it's below 65. I'm not a mamil.

I've only seen one in Utah = no helmet either.

This guy gets around!

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

On mountain bike trails or in town/city paths?

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I haven't been out on mtb trails a lot this year so all sightings have been in and around town. I have an acquaintance who is really enjoying riding all the old dirtbike/atv trails the local mtb people took over in the last 20 years....so he's out there.
Jeans and no helmet probably, shit eating grin, not stopping to hear lamentations from granola mafiosos.

Dont you think it might be a different demographic that would ride an emountain bike on trails versus an ebike around town?

Pretty different, dontcha think?

I sure hope insurance companies aren't lumping emtnbikes with regular with all this lack of helmet use.

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Hope your buddy is loaded.