I was reading a blog about e-bikes modded to do a 100kph on the road in I believe denmark, the e-bike has some amazing technology but there will be trouble
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I was reading a blog about e-bikes modded to do a 100kph on the road in I believe denmark, the e-bike has some amazing technology but there will be trouble
This is a really good way of putting it. There already is a huge perception issue towards mtbr's on multi-use trails, and massaging the local laws further to allow E-bike use could very-well backfire. All it takes are a couple incidents to get the locals talking about an E-bike ban, and a previous history of hiker-biker conflicts won't help either.
So much of this could be solved if the general public was more receptive towards mtbr's getting their own system of trails. Multi-use can work in low-pop areas, but after a certain threshold it's best to let bikers build/maintain their own system. Better-built trails for the happy mtbr's, and fewer biking conflicts for the hikers.
Trying so hard not to flame this thread. Maybe it's enough to say that Ebikes are their own thing and they should not be coat-tailed into access we have secured because the throttle is pretending to pedal. Trail access should be dealt with on a case by case basis. They are motorized plain and simple. Attempts to lump them in with human powered recreation is a sham.
Am I to assume that there are no assholes on designated MB trails now? Really?
We have had the discussion going on for a couple of weeks. the points that you bring up are the main reason that "No Motorized Vehicles" was instituted.
Banned for noise? Other than some woo-hoo's from the rider, these make no nose
Banned for speed? E-bikes max out at 20MPH then the assist stops. If there is going to be a speed limit, start monitoring Strava and see what some of these riders will go and start issuing citations.
Banned for erosion? Because they are heavier? 1. Check out that upcoming LaPeirre E-Spicy, 17.5KG. Yes, some are heavier, the Cannondale Moterra is over 50lb. So, what will be the rider/bike weight limit on a trail? Will there be a weigh in at the trailheads?
Banned for pollution? None there, adn less than if you are shuttling too.
I get why they don't know how to classify these. But these laws were written before these were even conceived. Yes, to the letter of the law they are motorized, but to the spirit of the law, they are a bicycle.
It’ll be a long road of opposition in the states despite plenty of more densely populated countries allowing them and setting in place regulations that are working. More reinventing the wheel in NA. They’ll be banned and then infrastructure week will include yuuuuuge incentives for expanding paved trail heads , and more of them, with ample room for diesel pusher RV buses. Koch paving will get the contract. Koch logging will log around the parking and they’ll be a Trump golf course for after riding. One skid or cutty and all golf privileges will be revoked but you’ll still be able to buy the hat , so don’t fret. #winning #eisbad #coalbikesrule
I’d use my truck way less(shuttles,groceries, drive to the ski hill, touring up the road)
This.
They are easy to modify so the 20 mph speed is invalid.
A lot of shared trail systems are designed around shared climbing trails because climbing mountain bikes don't go much faster than a walking/jogging pace very often. 20 mph will terrify many hikers and wreck the fragile balance.
You lower the cost of entry by making technology do all the work and more people can be out there doing more laps...
It's just not the same thing.
You’re focusing on one small slice of the pie. Think about how they could change the dynamic of urban living/commuting. Think about all the fat fucks that might actually start living right, because they ride an ebike. To me, the fact that the yuros all over these things, speaks volumes. These things could be real game changers.
Future so bright
Definitely agree on the urban/suburban uses here. More people riding bikes in general is a win in my book, and if it gets people more active and spending less time in traffic, I'm all for E-bikes.
I always dream of a future that is more like the Netherlands- with the bikes, I mean....
Lots of top(euro) EWS riders use them for training. Rather than ride the lift or shuttle , for dh training, and riding road bikes for cardio, they get all their pedLing and dh on one bike. A few of our out and back alpine trails there would be definite conflict with steady traffic up and down. I suspect on our two way xc trails there might be conflict as well but I’m guessing. I can think of numerous trails that it would be no problem
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Because there's nothing available to all of us fatties now. How's that working out???
I'm not against e-bikes for commuting, bike paths, rails-to-trail etc. But I also don't think they are bicycles.
I was at a big MTB demo event this weekend where Trek, Spec-Ed, and BH were making a hard push for e-bikes and had tons of demo bikes. Although I didn't try one, I learned:
1) they can go UP fast - on two occasions, I was going up a fairly steep hill with loose rocks and slate; two guys on e-bikes rode past me like I wasn't moving. It didn't bother me so much as I was surprised at how fast/easy it was related to my human powered struggle; and
2) every single person that I spoke to that tried one RAVED about them...like they were the greatest thing since the round wheel...ok, maybe the dropper post...but: every person smiled and really enjoyed their time on them.
I don't know what to make of either of those observations (other than we're gonna see lots more of them), but I just throw it out there.
2) every single person that I spoke to that tried one RAVED about them...like they were the greatest thing since the round wheel...ok, maybe the dropper post...but: every person smiled and really enjoyed their time on them.
Sounds like I need one of these bad boys, I like having fun.
I did not say that, there are plenty of assholes on mtbs now but they will do a lot more reputation damage when they can cruise around at 30mph without pedaling on their modified bikes. Also most assholes are lazy so I expect their number to increase exponentially when they don't have to work as hard or at all with a throttle. One of the first sites you find when googling for ebikes has an author who trashes all the off the shelf options because they are not fast enough or powerful enough and advocates for 1000w+ home made speed machines.
I knew that assholes are evenly distributed. It was a rhetorical question. The speed limit on the rails to trail is 15 mph and is broken by every Lance wannabe Mamil on the ride down . Fucking cyclists.
So do we still have to yield the right of way to a climbing rider if they are e-biking?
As long as they don't negatively affect trail access then they're fine IMO. Unfortunately in BC they'd probably negatively affect trail access
Wooley buy one from somewhere you can get spare parts. They're still prone to breakdowns and dead batteries; power transfers etc.
Last Month's MMWD board meeting minutes had three speakers slamming the use of Ebikes on Mt. Tam and other MMWD trails. The board meeting wasn't even about that, this was just in the open public comments. Every month this spring and summer I have seen more and more ebikes on the mountain and the rangers seem to be turning a blind eye even though their own trail use regs ban them. Much more interested in catching people riding single track illegally, think internet enabled and instantaneous alerts on hidden game cameras. I think the argument is not whether people have the right to ride these but riding them in semi to crowded multi use areas is going to lead to a lot of user conflicts in the near future. Many of these areas already have or have had user conflict issues and this new tech seems to me to have the ability to set back any progress made on that front. So far I have only seen old, rich dudes and chicks riding them but it is only a matter of time until mom and dad buy their son or daughter on the High school MTB team one of these and watch out. They can haul ass on fire roads up or down and it is starting to piss people off now.
Um, its called wanting to get as much fun out of the day as you can. Same reason why you ride ski lifts instead of bootpacking/skinning up, same reason why most unsanctioned trails are shuttle spots instead of pedal spots, same reason why you drive a mini excavator on non-motorized trails to do the big earthwork for new trails. I would love to get in 5000' days on my bike without having to be in pro level shape and/or ride a XC whippet. You just sound bitter when you say that because it is hard on you, everyone should have to suffer too.
And the too old/broken excuse isnt really an excuse. Its reality for many folks over the age of 50. Lifelong athletes with blown up joints, or heart issues, or just not enough time to commit to maintaining aerobic/anaerobic capacity they would need. Heck its reality for many folks below the age of 50. You should be thankful you have the ability to still get after it under your own power and on a cheap bike.
Fuck, can we stop arguing over E-bikes and let's actually talk about who is making some good ones? You don't approve of people riding em on trails, fine, STFU you made your point. I feel like some parts of the country will have better access for these than others.
Most of the ones that come up on a google search are more geared toward commuting/grocery getters. What are some of the faster/longer range/ better built brands out there for actual trail riding?
Just to play devil’s advocate: why does everyone get to participate?
Along the lines of the outcry when they put in the Kachina Peak lift at Taos or Mittersill at Cannon; some thought (and still think) it was sacrilegious....
Maybe you don’t get to ride non-motorized trails if you can’t ride a non motorized vehicle. You’ll just have to find your fun somewhere else.
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If i was you i would check out HaiBike, Specialized, and any of the other big MTB brands. HaiBike is really trying to get into the market by signing some pro MTbers, and most popular MTB brands now have an E-bike in their collection.
You should probably only ride your bike on fully legal sanctioned trails then... otherwise you risk being awfully hypocritical:eek:
rules are rules, right? haha
This is an interesting comparison. Riding lifts costs money, and the land management is (sometimes) different. Would everyone be okay with e-bikes being allowed at trail networks that cost money*? What if you had to buy a $15 day pass to Duthie or Galbraith or your other favorite trail network that resembles a pedal-only bike park, and that money went to trail maintenance? I think the only day-ticket no-lift trail network I've been to is the Kingdom Trails in VT; do they allow e-bikes there? Is that a good model? Can I complete a sentence without a question mark?
*You pay for all legal trails with things like parking passes and so forth. I would much rather buy a Discover Pass + Interagency Pass once a year and not worry about private trail networks....
Thats right, you don't get it, it's NOT like a Dirt bike
Wow, I bet you read that in the internet....or saw a video..on the internet.
So, if a rider that is a tail builder has both an acoustic bike and an E-bike...he can't ride thise trails? As far as the weight...exactly what weight is the break point..and you have to do it rider AND bike..is it 175..200lb?
Like posting on the internet and staying the same thing over like ...if I have to do it..everyone has to.." What makes you think the riders of these have any less knowledge of the trail than you?
If you are going to post a view...do it from a basis of fact and not just "I heard" or "They might..."
Yeah, same here. When they get the MTB’s dialed in with long travel and semi-light weight. I’m in. Think how fun it would be on the worst stretches of class 4/snowmachine trails. Nobody rides those things in summer. Way too gnarly, endless steeps on technical lines. Go for six hour backwoods tours, fuck yes. I’m so pro-ebike. I’ll be riding when I’m 80+
Edit:throttle is not what is is, it’s pedal assist. And the first time you try it, you will laugh out loud. It makes perfect sense, what city will be the first to jump all in? And build an infrastructure dedicated to a new way of living.
Future so bright
I spent some time on the Cannondale Moterra and while the Bosch system is good, the bike is pretty heavy and not all of that weight is masked, the Bosch can only do so much. With said, it is a dream going down hill, it is very planted on the trail and in the corners. Nothing seems to bother the 27.5+ tires on the climb and I do not uderstand the concern about erosion, I did not spit up one rock or displaced any more dirt than I did on the other bikes I was testing. The Pivot Shuttle with it's carbon fiber frame and low 40lb weight add to it's nimbleness The Di2 Shifting is the bomb but all of this comes at a premium $10K price point. I think they should come out with a couple of lower models and offer a collection, I think they would do great. The upcoming LaPeirre E-Zesty looks like a fantastic option with it's 17.5Kg weight (about 38lb) which will make it very well the lightest Full Suspension option. The E-Zesty, gives up some of it's top end boost and range for the light weight battery...IMHO a fair trade off and something that a few riders would be willing to balance...shedding a few lb for a bit less range because twith that less weight, the range will come because you won't be using that much assist...makes sense to me.
I've got an e-commuter bike and IT IS THE SHIT.
Raleigh Supre and it was also relatively affordable to boot at $1500 https://www.raleighusa.com/superbe-i...ond-frame-3271
I rarely ever drive my car in the summer and when I run home for lunch etc, I don't have to worry about being all sweaty and gross when I get back to the office, I can wear nice clothes out AND ride to dinner/ out with friends
But the E-MTB's are a different beast and they are not allowed on the non-motorized trails around here. Luckily for the e-bikers around here we have tons of dirt biking/ motorized access trails.
Been hearing about some folks with the Specialized e-bikes doing some long bike packing trips in the Big Holes, which makes me somewhat jealous and seems like the perfect use of that sort of tool
I think I saw someone prior ask/ mention the categories but for ebikes and here's what they are. for reference my bike as well as most you see around are Class 1's. The Class 2-3's are where, imo, things get more complicated
Class 1: Bikes with a top assisted speed of 20 mph that must be pedaled to operate.
Class 2: Bikes with a top assisted speed of 20 mph that can be operated without pedaling by using a handlebar-mounted throttle.
Class 3: Bikes with a top assisted speed of 28 mph that must be pedaled to operate.
You realize the delineation was predicated on a fairly stark difference between combustion dirtbikes where you wear a ton of gear and make a ton of noise and can effortlessly blipbrap at 50mph uphill versus pedal bikes. Ebikes are something different than that.
The rules weren't made for the technology we currently have. Trying to apply rules set up to distinguish between a 1985 Stumpjumper and a 1985 Honda CR250 to a pedal enduro bike versus an enduro ebike is just fundamentalism. It's "NO MOTORS OF ANY KIND" fundamentalism....which is just as ridiculous as any other kind of fundamentalism.