So you have to love the noise and such to appreciate anything with a motor. Got it. What if you only spend half of that?
Printable View
Don’t own one, but who knows in a few years, being retired now and riding pretty much every day there is some appeal to having one for recovery days.
I do not want them classified the same as a regular bike. But if land managers decide they want to allow them I’m ok with it.
I have a buddy that has one who is a very strong rider, stronger than I’ll ever be on his non ebike. Allows him to go out after work and knock out much bigger rides than he could on his regular bike. He typically rides at the lowest assist level but peddles just as hard as he would on a normal bike, amazing how much more distance he can cover in the same time and he certainly has not lost any fitness
On a recent ride in the lakes basin near downieville with him where the they are allowed I was blown away at the technical uphills he was able to clean that no one else could. Definitely a different skill set than riding a normal bike.
Here he is topping out on a very steep rock face I could hardly believe it. Another guy in our group on a regular bike made 5 attempts at this and could not even make into the frame of this photo and that guy sets KOM’s all over Tahoe.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...da4cdb00de.jpg
Anyway my knee jerk reaction at first was to hate them. But it seems the genie is out of the bag and there here to stay so they need to be addressed. If a land manager wants to ban them fine by me, also fine with me if they want to allow them.
I see them on occasion on trails there not allowed and really can’t get to worked up about it, god knows it would be pretty hypocritical based on the places I’m willing to ride my regular bike.
Anyway that’s my 2 cents, carry on...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That pic makes me want one, more than ever. Damn, that is a freaking wall he’s riding up.
ebiker just went by. Wearing a helmet. No pads or lycra. On this 90 degree evening he'll get a cool breeze without breaking a sweat. Doing about 10mph I'd guess. He'll be at the lake that is 4 miles up the trail in 15-20 minutes.
Pic makes me wish I wasn't so far from Tahoe. Time to go find more rock.
Just embrace it. You want a moto.
https://www.altamotors.co/redshiftmxr#redshift-mx-1
Kinda true. If you had the skills you would have industry support or a hookup and wouldnt be paying 7k out of pocket. Heck my coworker used to work at a shop and using that hookup built up a Nomad4 with carbon wheels and top spec everything and it only came out to just under $5k out of pocket because of the discount. His M.O. is to build and ride a top spec bike for a season and then sell it in really good condition for a few hundred dollar profit the next spring.
It’s not bad going down if your used to riding steeper stuff, there is a trail that was built that goes up the back side that you can ride up just to roll down this feature.
Btw this was a 5k levo he was riding, cheaper than my non ebike
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No, I'm not talking about roads like in that video. I'm talking about tight single track with rocks, switchbacks, roots, and steep shit. Roads are a non issue because there is plenty of room to pass, and as I said, on roads I pass people. Also, full disclosure is that I pretty much suck as a mtn bike rider even though I've been doing it for 20+ years.
He was on a trail. Not gnarly right single track but a trail similar to what you might find somewhere at galbraith
Must have a nice exit. I pictured it going down more like this (skip to 2:00):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3GuKsIrXtc
This kind of rational logic is not possessed by your average bike-hating Sierra Club or Wilderness Society member.
Living where you do you haven't the faintest idea of what is happening with access in other places. Oh yeah, maybe you have read about some trail somewhere getting closed but to you it is an abstract situation.
I believe you may be a Rep for a bike company. If that is correct your products will be harder to sell as more trails are closed to bikes.
If the land manager is ok with e-bikes what is the hater argument against regular mountain bikes? mountain bike clubs that are concerned about the impact should be taking there case to there local land manger and try to have them banned. In the Tahoe basin there only allowed where moto's can go.
I've been on a number of rides with some folks on e-bikes and I've seen zero evidence of additional trail damage. I guess the argument can be made that more users will wear on the trail more so I get that.
Anyway as far as speed goes I'll give you an example, there is a 39 mile route with 5100 feet of climbing I do every so often all single track though the Sierra, it's usually an all day thing for me and I'm reasonably fit, I average around 5 1/2 hours moving time, toss in another 1 1/2 hours taking breaks and what not. Friend of mine did it on a ebike in around 3 1/2 hours using the lowest assist level available, he was concerned about running out of juice so he went really light weight just a few energy packs and just enough water to get by, he barley made it without running out of juice. A skilled rider experienced with riding e-bikes can pretty much blow away a regular bike.
Attachment 242568
Ya know, a lot of what is currently wrong with this world stems from many people thinking that rules are a way to keep them down and they they only apply to other people.
You are still winning.
@ Mtngrl, have you been riding Pirate Trails? Arrrrgh!
Out of morbid curiosity, is the trail you mentioned open to motorized?
Forums in a nutshell
Hmmm. E motor = motor...no?
Is there a point where a certain cc gas engine pedal assist becomes ok?
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Interview: Chris Cocalis talks eMTB
As the most recent US bike maker to enter the eMTB marketplace Pivot's Shimano E8000-powered Shuttle represents at least what one brand believes to be a vision of where the emerging sport is headed. We caught up with Pivot founder and designer Chris Cocalis to get the back-story on their first eMTB.
https://es.pinkbike.org/246/sprt/i/p...dark_48x34.png What was your motivation to enter into the e-bike market?
Actually, it was the push from customers in Europe and other global markets. We have an office in Germany and Pivot has been experiencing really good growth in Europe overall. About three years ago we started receiving inquires about an E-mountain bike from Pivot. In Germany in particular, what started as a simple request turned into a “must have.” Depending on who’s statistics you are looking at, it is estimated that for bikes over €4000, eMTB’s now make up over 50% of mountain bike sales in Germany. Even if it is only 30%, it’s still an incredibly large and important part of the market. It reached a level where dealers were telling us they were not interested unless there was an e-bike on the way. That was the motivation for initially looking at it. Beyond that, we always love a new challenge and working to be the best in any category we enter.
https://es.pinkbike.org/246/sprt/i/p...dark_48x34.png When did Pivot begin developing the Shuttle?
We started looking at it seriously 2 years ago and began working on potential designs and researching where things were headed.
There is a big difference when riding a the Shuttle at 19.95kg (44lbs) versus the typical 23kg (51lb) eMTB. On the assist side of things, the Shimano system was developed for mountain bikers by mountain bikers. There are other good systems in the market, but we feel that the E8000 system allows the rider to ride exactly like they would normally ride a mountain bike. There is no need to pedal a certain cadence or have to anticipate for the power to come on in a certain way. You just ride it as you would your normal bike, with the major difference being that you feel like you are having your best day on the bike.
https://es.pinkbike.org/246/sprt/i/p...dark_48x34.png Do you perceive the eMTB primarily as a new market growing from the sport mountain biking, or will Pivot be designing eMTBs as an integral and logical extension of the mountain bike?
That is a bit of a loaded gun. The perception is not really so much up to me. However, we are not out to add a new market beyond the sport of mountain biking. We (Pivot) are a technology, engineering and innovation driven BIKE company. We love challenges and we love making cool bikes. We wouldn’t do this project if we didn’t have interest and a strong passion for it. It’s not going to replace my non-pedal assist bikes but depending on the rider, it may. That’s up to the individual rider to decide what they are looking for in a mountain bike. Not everyone wants a fully rigid carbon fiber single speed hardtail, nor does every rider want a full blown Phoenix DH World Cup downhill bike. There’s a huge spectrum of riders, terrain, trails, etc. EMTB’s are different, but they are still very much mountain bikes. This just adds another way to have fun on a bike.
https://es.pinkbike.org/246/sprt/i/p...dark_48x34.png Geographically, how will Pivot's eMTBs be marketed?
Currently, the new Shuttle is for the European market only. We are assembling the bike in Germany for sales within the EU using the EU specifications. That said, we will look at the customer demand for other potential markets in the future. If you see a Shuttle in your future, let us know and we will see what we can do to make that happen. We are taking a bit of a wait and see approach to other markets.
https://es.pinkbike.org/246/sprt/i/p...dark_48x34.png Some say it is inevitable that eMTBs will evolve into restricted-power legal models and more powerful, closed-course racing models. Where do you see Pivot's place in the future of eMTB development?
There are companies that seem to have already entered into a bit of a horsepower race and there are companies working hard on e-motocross bikes. Fortunately, the e-bike market does have some guidelines set. A class 1 e-bike has a maximum assist speed of 25 kph (20mph in the US), has to be pedal assist (cannot have a throttle) and then it is classified as a regular bicycle. This is a constant source of debate in the US, but in a growing number of places, it is becoming the regulation. I think that this sets a nice set of parameters to work within.
https://es.pinkbike.org/246/sprt/i/p...dark_48x34.png We have already seen some industry leading bike brands diluting their mountain bike development programs as they focus upon ramping up for the burgeoning eMTB market. How can a small, prestigious bike maker like Pivot play both fields without falling into that trap?
I think this has a lot to do with what a company’s vision is. We are ramping up and adding to our engineering and design team so that we can do more across the board. I do know of other fairly large bike companies that have diverted resources and basically look like they’ve become an e-bike company. For Pivot, every project we do supports the others. We build on our R&D to make each bike better then the last. I think that everyone will see in the near future that the Shuttle project has in no way diluted our mountain bike development or changed our focus.
https://es.pinkbike.org/246/sprt/i/p...dark_48x34.png Insiders claim that eMTB sales will capture over 75% of the mountain bike market (at least in Europe).If that proves true, can you envision a time when Pivot transitions exclusively into an eMTB brand?
I think 75% is a bit of a stretch, but the numbers are still significant. Still, there is no specific category that has absolutely dominated mountain biking in this way. Some say that cycling is a sport of suffering. A lot of the draw to competitive and recreational cycling is to push yourself both in fitness and technical abilities. It’s part of the satisfaction of cycling and why certain riders are so against e-bikes. For that reason, I don’t think that 75% is a realistic number. However, for those that haven’t ridden a good eMTB: you can suffer [on an eMTB] as much as you wish. In fact, it kind of begs you to punish yourself. Suffering is a lot easier to deal with when you are having too much fun to stop.
Owwww!! Hurts my eyes. What does it say/
We are all doomed. Ebikes are here, and nothing is going to stop them. Riders love them and are going to ride them where ever they want and it is going to cause a lot of trouble, and bring up lots of old conflict scars until land managers and laws adapt. They will also get faster, lighter, and cheaper.
We dont have to give up. We could fight for big fines for illegal use... then use that money to build more trails.
Fine anyone that goes outside. Big money for trails #winning #stablegenius
WOW....a company selling $10k emtbs opines that they’re just regular bikes....someone call the press!!!
And the whole “only available in Europe” lasted about 10min.
Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
Last time I checked there are riders who are fast uphill and others who are fast down hill. Always has been, and with e bikes, always will. What’s wrong with getting beat on the uphill, because most of us are fatter and slower than we want to be?
Nothing wrong with getting beat everything wrong with motorcycles on non motorized trails.
I’m in the camp of: if there was no concern over trail closures, Class 1 ebikes can be considered “bicycles” in the regulatory scheme.
I have no issues getting passed...and if it would shut the ebikers up about how “they’re not bikes with motors...they’re ebikes”...then all the better!
Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
:( :(
I do, I've been involved in this for too long to not know what's happening. Thankfully here in the northeast we have been adding trail miles at a pretty incredible pace. Two (?) years ago here in NY we added as much as was lost west of I 25 in the previous 3 years in one shot. There's a bit of loss happening now due to stupid people doing stupid things and a whole bunch of hand wringing over e-mtb's but not much closing or banning happening yet. Unfortunately playing by the rules and advocating for them is a complete and total waste of time in most places so since there isn't any funding for enforcement (on most public lands) we'll just keep on keeping on and go and ride when and where we see fit. Pretty much as it has always been.
Yup but again, it won't likely affect my territory in a negative way.
Or you could help to fight to get the rules changed to avoid any conflict, which would recruit more people into the local clubs to build and maintain trails.
BTW, there are big fines in place already. It's a $750 fine to operate a motorized vehicle on most public lands where it is banned. If you think the public agencies are going to give any of that to the local mountain bike clubs, you are delusional.
It's pretty irrelevant anyway. In 20+ years in the Tahoe basin I've never seen a ranger on the trail to actually enforce anything other than checking wilderness permits of hikers on the trail to the Desolation wilderness and in parking lots giving tickets. They have bigger issues to deal with.
Just heard that more than a few MMWD rangers have been spotted patrolling the Mt. Tam on Specialized ebikes that my tax dollars bought them. This means they can patrol relatively silently and get to places that they could not unless they were on loud ATVs and left obvious tracks. This sucks in so many ways, this will mandate a significant change in trail choice and strategy. Once again turn fucking strava off when riding on Tam. They use heat maps to dial in their patrols.
Yeah MtnGirl should shut up so instead we can listen to the men that have been biking forever tell us how it should be. Because they never sound like opinionated bitches.
Not directed at people that have been mountain biking for a long time and manage to get their points across in a productive manner.