Electric Bike Thread

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Originally Posted by jono

Mtngirl isn't up to speed on all the facts, so I'll give her a pass, but to correct one simple thing: the ADA allows electric wheelchairs in Federally Designated Wilderness. Already. The only stipulation is that the electric wheelchair has to be suitable for use indoors. Know what isn't suitable for use indoors? Gas engines. Pretty much anything else goes. That's the law today.

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I'm aware of the standard. There is also a 36inch width restriction and manuverability requirements. The device has to be manufactured for the sole purpose of being a wheel chair, too so an electric 4 wheel would not count. These requirements makes it unlikely that anyone will be bringing a power chair far into the backcountry.... or people (same ones in this thread that wanna ride 5000 ft in a day without putting in the work) will claim a disability in order to use an electric 4 wheeler disguised as a wheel chair to go on a hike they aren't fit enough for.

If we loosen the laws it's going to turn to a shitshow.

True, but not the way you think. The shitshow will be that all the whining Wildernuts and Vandemans of the world will cry foul because they can't tell the difference and just want everything with wheels kicked out of their publicly-owned Church of People Who Aren't Not Me (tm). The only thing needed for the shitshow you fear is a little engineering. Which is already happening.

Like peacocks and pigs on airplanes?

Definitely!

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

aand that's reeeaaaallllly what it's all about.


Like bags said, those things ride like shit going downhill. All they really do is make biking easier for people who didn't really have an interest in biking. Or a waning interest.

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QFT.

I can't help thinking of the parallels in the snow. I still find myself reminiscing about the good old days before snowboards and fat skis. It took fitness and skill to ski powder so there was plenty to ski in the resorts on a powder day. The few of us skiing our 207cm GS skis on epic days felt steezy. The rest stayed on the groomed or in the lodge.

Then the boarders started tearing up all of our favorite runs on powder days. It didn't help that a lot of them were really douchey. Then, fat-rockered skis came and it was over. Gapers of all sorts could "ski powder" or at least they could get down and track it all out. I remember standing in a lift line one storm day looking at the kids with clown shoes on and telling my ski buddy to punch me in face if he ever saw me on fat, rockered, skis. Fortunately, he doesn't remember the conversation.

Fast forward and it is what it is. I suck at mountain biking and have'nt tried an ebike but I'm getting old and, if they allowed them on the single track where I live, I might give it a go. It sucks for the young/fit/skilled riders but maybe someday the close-in trails will feel like skiing at a crowded resort full of tourists on a powder day and it will take some effort to get to more remote places that remind us of the good old days. Other places will be more like Alta or Deer Valley and outlaw the new technology.

I got passed in the bike lane by an electric assist for the millionth time and i think i need one now. i stopped the guy after and it looked just like a regular road bike, he said he gets about four days to a charge, it flies, and costs a grand.

http://60streets.com/148-thickbox_de...-m-series-.jpg

M series!

Not very many "more remote places" mountain bikes are allowed and ebike douchies could use their batteries to get there.

Ebikes are like if they made skins with mini snowmobile tracks that moved you up the mountain in the backcountry so you didn't have to work... I mean, you still have to stand so it's kinda like work.

And these mini snowmobiles for your feet are great because you want to ski the backcountry pow, too but you don't have time to get into good enough shape. You live in Texas, right? You only get a week long ski vacation.

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Originally Posted by ml242

I got passed in the bike lane by an electric assist for the millionth time and i think i need one now. i stopped the guy after and it looked just like a regular road bike, he said he gets about four days to a charge, it flies, and costs a grand.!

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this thread is about e-bikes on mtn bike trails and the argument is if they belong or not?

Commuting would be a great app, that pict looks like a shitty trail bike

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Originally Posted by stearnsn

I can't help thinking of the parallels in the snow. I still find myself reminiscing about the good old days before snowboards and fat skis. It took fitness and skill to ski powder so there was plenty to ski in the resorts on a powder day. The few of us skiing our 207cm GS skis on epic days felt steezy. The rest stayed on the groomed or in the lodge.

Then the boarders started tearing up all of our favorite runs on powder days. It didn't help that a lot of them were really douchey. Then, fat-rockered skis came and it was over. Gapers of all sorts could "ski powder" or at least they could get down and track it all out. I remember standing in a lift line one storm day looking at the kids with clown shoes on and telling my ski buddy to punch me in face if he ever saw me on fat, rockered, skis. Fortunately, he doesn't remember the conversation.

Fast forward and it is what it is. I suck at mountain biking and have'nt tried an ebike but I'm getting old and, if they allowed them on the single track where I live, I might give it a go. It sucks for the young/fit/skilled riders but maybe someday the close-in trails will feel like skiing at a crowded resort full of tourists on a powder day and it will take some effort to get to more remote places that remind us of the good old days. Other places will be more like Alta or Deer Valley and outlaw the new technology.

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It’s funny to me that you bring up snowboarding in this context. Do you know who the early snowboarders were? The best skiers on the mountain. That’s who. The youngest most aggressive most athletic skiers saw it and said that looks like fun. Before long they were schooling the skiers in powder. The weak ass skiers were completely threatened by this so they hated on the boarders and wanted to ban them. Shawn Palmer was a ripping skier as a kid. In my snowboard posse in Telluride in the late 80’s we were all better skiers than the skiers hating on us. A couple of them had won race events skiing in the jr olympics just a few years prior.
Same fucking thing with ebike weak fucking pussies threatened. Let’s ban it let’s pass laws.



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Originally Posted by XXX-er

this thread is about e-bikes on mtn bike trails and the argument is if they belong or not?

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Actually, the thread is supposed to be about what e-bikes are out there, what peoples experiences are on the e-bikes, and any other info regarding e-bike tech.

The thread was taken over by the "should e-bikes be allowed" argument.

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Originally Posted by El Kanone

It’s funny to me that you bring up snowboarding in this context. Do you know who the early snowboarders were? The best skiers on the mountain. That’s who. The youngest most aggressive most athletic skiers saw it and said that looks like fun. Before long they were schooling the skiers in powder. The weak ass skiers were completely threatened by this so they hated on the boarders and wanted to ban them. Shawn Palmer was a ripping skier as a kid. In my snowboard posse in Telluride in the late 80’s we were all better skiers than the skiers hating on us. A couple of them had won race events skiing in the jr olympics just a few years prior.
Same fucking thing with ebike weak fucking pussies threatened. Let’s ban it let’s pass laws.



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Pretty much bingo. The only real argument against e-bikes is that it could affect access for ALL mountain bikes. All the other arguments are basically the above.

i don't get yer analogy, so are you saying the e-bikers are all better snow boarders or better skiers ... or they got stronger dope

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Actually, the thread is supposed to be about what e-bikes are out there, what peoples experiences are on the e-bikes, and any other info regarding e-bike tech.

The thread was taken over by the "should e-bikes be allowed" argument.

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Pretty much. Try giving any input about how ebikes function and it gets taken over by the same old arguments

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Pretty much bingo. The only real argument against e-bikes is that it could affect access for ALL mountain bikes. All the other arguments are basically the above.

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Sorry this is stalkerish. I don't want ebikes as I see it threatening trail access in BC. But then I see mtngirl and DaveVt type rhetoric and that dominates the conversation. It sounds elitist because it is

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Actually, the thread is supposed to be about what e-bikes are out there, what peoples experiences are on the e-bikes, and any other info regarding e-bike tech.

The thread was taken over by the "should e-bikes be allowed" argument.

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thread title is "electric bike" but then in the openning post it was really about e-mtn bikes

IMO there isn't much point in buying an E-mtn bike if its illegal to ride it anywhere that you want to ride it and so the land use thing will become part of the whole e-mountainbike discussion especialy if you come on a mtn bike forum to ask about e- mtnbikes

they don't have these kinds of land use questions on motocross forums or snowmoblie forums, its all braap all the time cuz they are separate from other BC users, they got their own lobby groups and everything.

whereas e-mtn bike mfgers are quietly selling lots of e-mtn bikes riding on the coat tails of the mtn bikers/lobbyists who did all the work, maybe the mfgers need to get out and lobby, tell the power that be ... a motor is not really a motor

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

they don't have these kinds of land use questions on motocross forums or snowmoblie forums,

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BWAAHHAHAAAAAA!!!!!

Oh man. That's a good one.

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Originally Posted by El Kanone

It’s funny to me that you bring up snowboarding in this context. Do you know who the early snowboarders were? The best skiers on the mountain. That’s who. The youngest most aggressive most athletic skiers saw it and said that looks like fun. Before long they were schooling the skiers in powder. The weak ass skiers were completely threatened by this so they hated on the boarders and wanted to ban them. Shawn Palmer was a ripping skier as a kid. In my snowboard posse in Telluride in the late 80’s we were all better skiers than the skiers hating on us. A couple of them had won race events skiing in the jr olympics just a few years prior.
Same fucking thing with ebike weak fucking pussies threatened. Let’s ban it let’s pass laws.



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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaG5SAw1n0c

Here's the deal, if you want to go motorized, even electric, own it and get a motorbike and ride them where they're allowed. Don't pretend to be a mountain biker while riding an ebike and pretending to be a mountain biker. I have no problem with motorized use where appropriate, ebikes are appropriate for seniors and the handicapped on bike lanes and paths. Anything else is, well, gay.

Making concessions to an ever expanding list of special interest user groups is lame. It's a slippery slope to ruining access for everyone if we start making exceptions to the rules when it comes to motorized use. It has nothing to do with who is radder and more skilled and sour grapes. The interest of the majority is what matters. I know that may not sit well with all the 'freedom lovers' but fuck them.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

BWAAHHAHAAAAAA!!!!!

Oh man. That's a good one.

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no its Braaap !

ok but it would be a seperate thread because its a well established "us and them" thing intsead of claiming a motor is not a motor

Why does everyone seem to think that mtn ebikers are not mtn bikers now and in the past? I don't personally know anyone with one, but online you see mtn bikers riding ebikes. So the whole "we've been advocating for trails...blah blah blah" argument. How do you know these same people are not ebikers or soon to be ebikers?

I could give a shit if someone rides one or not. I'm not going to until I cannot ride my regular mtn bike anymore, then maybe I'll give it a shot...on all the trails I've built and mantained over the years...on my own time...not getting paid by some group.

And yeah, fuck all those douche skiers hating on snowboarders back in the day. That always pissed me off as primarily a skier. TGR crew before tgr was always about sliding down the hill no matter the device you rode. The way it should be and the way they still are today.

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Why does everyone seem to think that mtn ebikers are not mtn bikers now and in the past? I don't personally know anyone with one, but online you see mtn bikers riding ebikes.

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Many ebikers i know are/were mtnbikers are. So?

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

So the whole "we've been advocating for trails...blah blah blah" argument. How do you know these same people are not ebikers or soon to be ebikers?

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I don't understand. RIde what you want. But if ebikers want sanctioned trails for ebikes - then advocate for them as ebikers. Take care of yourselves

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

I could give a shit if someone rides one or not. I'm not going to until I cannot ride my regular mtn bike anymore, then maybe I'll give it a shot...on all the trails I've built and mantained over the years...on my own time...not getting paid by some group.

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Builders right. If you want ebikes or MotoX or trials or trailrunners on your trails IMO that's your right. If its a sanctioned trail then you;ve got to deal with a land manager and all the PITA that entails. If your trails are unsanctioned then even better - do what you want

C'mon Lee. Nobody is interested in reason. This thread is about gut feelings and logical fallacies!

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

Not very many "more remote places" mountain bikes are allowed and ebike douchies could use their batteries to get there.

Ebikes are like if they made skins with mini snowmobile tracks that moved you up the mountain in the backcountry so you didn't have to work... I mean, you still have to stand so it's kinda like work.

And these mini snowmobiles for your feet are great because you want to ski the backcountry pow, too but you don't have time to get into good enough shape. You live in Texas, right? You only get a week long ski vacation.

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I just got a pair of eSkis!

They are absolutely no different than regular touring skis because you still have to stand there on your skis!

You still have to do all the work, because the motor only works if you're standing there on your skis!

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Originally Posted by bagtagley

C'mon Lee. Nobody is interested in reason. This thread is about gut feelings and logical fallacies!

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True. I do enjoy trolling. Especially rewarding is pointing out that social media/forum or internet blather about " gut feelings and logical fallacies" doesn't matter; and that its the land managers are what's important. And that the only thing that will change land managers minds is endless meetings, public workshops and lots of hard work. Specialized's response to that was = well we sponsored a study saying that ebikes are good and you (the volunteer advocacy group) can go to your land managers in North Van, Whistler, Squamish and Pemberton and argue for ebikes on trails OK?

This nobody is soft. No enthusiasm for the sport. Probably never been on a real mountain bike or pedalled up a hill. Bike looks totally clumsy. Bet he wishes he had a throttle. I suspect there is a throttle there somewhere. Team jerry . Doood is sooo ghey NTTIAWWT

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Originally Posted by grinch

This nobody is soft. No enthusiasm for the sport. Probably never been on a real mountain bike or pedalled up a hill. Bike looks totally clumsy. Bet he wishes he had a throttle. I suspect there is a throttle there somewhere. Team jerry . Doood is sooo ghey NTTIAWWT

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Haha. People doing a paid job is supposed to prove what exactly?


And yes those bikes look totally clumsy.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

no its Braaap !

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We need to hang out

I think his point was that decent riders are using these, having fun, getting creative with their riding and getting a good workout in. You know - mountain biking. There's a reason sales are taking off and it's not because people don't want to exercise when they bike.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Haha. People doing a paid job is supposed to prove what exactly?


And yes those bikes look totally clumsy.

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Trying to fit everyone in for the max troll. Thanks for playing. He wouldn’t be doing that without the chedda. I suspect he was tortured.

Can’t even watch this. Paid actor and not very playful. Someone wrote his lines for him for sure. Dude is washed. Total hack

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Many ebikers i know are/were mtnbikers are. So?

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Have you been following this thread? One of the key whines is how mtn bikers have advocated for their trails. Yeah, the same fucking guys riding ebikes now. Keep up canuck.

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Originally Posted by grinch

Can’t even watch this. Paid actor and not very playful. Someone wrote his lines for him for sure. Dude is washed. Total hack

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Why do you have such a boner for ebikes? Do you work in the industry?


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Originally Posted by nest

Why do you have such a boner for ebikes? Do you work in the industry?


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No, never tried one. I’ve just been inundated by ebike vids on my youtube “suggestions” after watching a couple. The last two popped up today. One first then the other. Just having a laugh at all the wild claims and false equivalencies in here. I can only smh and roll my eyes so much. It’s a discussion so discuss and the vids prove a point without typing.
Advocacy is another discussion. Much respect for anyone that’s fought that battle, rogue or legal . I can only comment on that from what I’ve seen in my locals

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaG5SAw1n0c

Here's the deal, if you want to go motorized, even electric, own it and get a motorbike and ride them where they're allowed. Don't pretend to be a mountain biker while riding an ebike and pretending to be a mountain biker. I have no problem with motorized use where appropriate, ebikes are appropriate for seniors and the handicapped on bike lanes and paths. Anything else is, well, gay.

Making concessions to an ever expanding list of special interest user groups is lame. It's a slippery slope to ruining access for everyone if we start making exceptions to the rules when it comes to motorized use. It has nothing to do with who is radder and more skilled and sour grapes. The interest of the majority is what matters. I know that may not sit well with all the 'freedom lovers' but fuck them.

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Ahh haaa
You are so threatened by the thought of being passed by a woman or a child or a 70 year old or your neighbor or a random stranger that you resort to calling anyone claiming ebikes are a cool invention gay.
Thanks for making my point for me.




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Hey doodz and dudettez... seeing as there is a friggin' gunz Tech Talk thread devoid of typical Interwebz arguments about everything and nothing, mebbe we should have an eBike Tech Talk thread to just go over builds and stuff like that. This here current thread is good for hashing out the appropriateness of eBikes in various milieu ad nauseaum, but I think I'll go over to the other forum to start another.

In any case, my own personal opinion is that eBikes are awesome for commuting, grocery shopping and barhopping, etc., and pretty fun for fire roads and motorized access trails, but I would personally not be cool with riding eBikes in the wilderness or predominantly human-powered singletrack areas, at least not on the up. On the down, as long as you're not on assist, you're just another heavy bike.

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Have you been following this thread? One of the key whines is how mtn bikers have advocated for their trails. Yeah, the same fucking guys riding ebikes now. Keep up canuck.

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You're not logical and making a leap that makes no sense. I answered your question logically. It's not my fault you don't understand.

Fat tire e bike just went by. Rider had a back pack. Perfect combo for a 50 - 100 mile a day 500 mile ride on this trail. It's not legal but no one cares so get it while you can and tell your grand kids about the time when you could ..........

Attachment 241990

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Originally Posted by klauss

I think his point was that decent riders are using these, having fun, getting creative with their riding and getting a good workout in. You know - mountain biking. There's a reason sales are taking off and it's not because people don't want to exercise when they bike.

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And my takeaway is that they make decent riders look like goons.

I've ridden two of them. They suck descending. For me that's the end of the story. Old man Jones from dirt who thinks orange dh bikes are/were the best thing ever and fabien barrel marketing for canyon changes zero of that. Go watch the video of kenny smith riding one of those monstrosities. He looks like a scared little chicken trying to peck his way around in the dark. kenny smith is not a scared chicken.

Which two have you ridden? Don’t know no Kenny Smith or old man Jones but okay. I am not even thinking about buying an ebike but the opposition in this thread just doesn’t match my experience on the one time I spent a day using one. Felt like mtb’ing to me but just more of it in one day.

Kenny Smith is one of them young rippers who came out of
PG

Ya Kenny is a ripper. He did look a little gripped on the last rock line. Burly line but I think he’s flash it on a lighter bike or his dh bike. Seems to be a popular sentiment that they take a bit extra to slow that added weight. To be expected. A lot of the ebikes while looking like there regular bike counterparts have crazy long chainstays too that also limits there playability(is that a word?). The lapierre Nico is on, and the pivot you tried Klaus, are a fair bit lighter and have short chainstays pretty much identical to the companies non e bike models. A lot of rave reviews on that pivot stating that . If that new fazua motor pans out neither the weight or the chainstays and placement for the main pivot on the swing arm should be an issue. It should be possible to have normal geometry, under 40lbs(currently they’re 50lbs) in aluminium for a decent price, and the ability to use it without the motor(just as a normal bike but with huge storage where the fazua motor and battery go) or with the motor where ebikes are allowed. One of those vids the fazua rep said a lot of companies are jumping on that system