Electric Bike Thread

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Except he's trying to make some semantic point about the morality of using a motor to get to the top. It's a terrible argument. Shuttleable descents are a small subset of the total pool of non-motorized trails, and ebikes don't change the percentage of descents accessible by vehicle shuttles. Whereas, 100% of trails are accessible to ebikes.

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I was speaking more towards Mtngirl, and where she lives probably 1/3 up to 1/2 of all the mtn bike trails are unsanctioned shuttle trails that get hammered by DH bikes which blow up the trails far more than an average e-bike.

I was also questioning why she was such a proponent of keeping wilderness areas only open to those willing to get there 100% under their own power without the need for technology... but oh yeah, its cool if you use a $4000 machine to get there too, because she currently owns one... but its not cool if you use an extremely similar machine because she doesnt have one.

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Originally Posted by alias_rice

Outside of Park City and maybe some Moab trails, I wonder if this is enforced at all in Utah. Hell, other than some citizen policing by mtn bikers, I doubt there’s much ebike enforcement at all. I’ve seen ebikes on Crest a few times and on Big Water just a few weeks ago. I bet none of the riders had any clue they were breaking the law.

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I've never seen a USFS ranger anywhere in the Wasatch, or anywhere else for that matter. Hell, people swim in Cecret Lake with near impunity and that's the easiest, most no-brainer place to issue citations to people flagrantly ignoring the law. That's what makes this so scary. They will justify closing everything based on the fact that they do not have the resources to conduct enforcement.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I was also questioning why she was such a proponent of keeping wilderness areas only open to those willing to get there 100% under their own power without the need for technology... but oh yeah, its cool if you use a $4000 machine to get there too, because she currently owns one... but its not cool if you use an extremely similar machine because she doesnt have one.

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Mtngirl's bike doesn't cost anywhere near $4k, not even close. The gal drives a bus for a living. I've also seen pictures of her before she took up riding. A genetically gifted uber athlete she is most certainly not.

I think the scenario of viewing ebikes as a lower impact version of shuttle riding or Moto is great. I don't think they should be allowed in wilderness or non-motorized multiuse trails. I think they should be allowed on trails specifically meant for them, on freeride/dh specific trails or on unsanctioned "grey area" trails that are currently being shuttled by dh bros. And definitely allowed on FS roads like plated dirt bikes are. I think if they are viewed as a weird place between bikes and Moto's a place can be found for them.

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

When these things get totally dialed in, like say, ten years from now. I’ll be 63 years old with shit knees. I am so totally buying all four flavors. Road, Gravel, MTB and Fat. Future so bright.
Go on now

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The dialing in part is happening pretty quickly. There are some really nice, affordable, sub 40 pound bikes now and even a handful of sub 30#ers. Many of us that have been trail builders and advocates for the last 30 years will be in the same position.

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Originally Posted by Flexon Phil

But these laws were written before these were even conceived. Yes, to the letter of the law they are motorized, but to the spirit of the law, they are a bicycle.

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This.

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Yeah, same here. When they get the MTB’s dialed in with long travel and semi-light weight. I’m in. Think how fun it would be on the worst stretches of class 4/snowmachine trails. Nobody rides those things in summer. Way too gnarly, endless steeps on technical lines. Go for six hour backwoods tours, fuck yes. I’m so pro-ebike. I’ll be riding when I’m 80+

Edit:throttle is not what is is, it’s pedal assist. And the first time you try it, you will laugh out loud. It makes perfect sense, what city will be the first to jump all in? And build an infrastructure dedicated to a new way of living.

Future so bright

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I just put in my order for a 150/160 travel sub 40# bike that I'll ride anywhere I'm not risking arrest next year. I totally look forward to getting out to places like you mention here, I can think of so many all around the northeast.

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Originally Posted by Flexon Phil

Laws need to adjust for the technology at hand.

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You keep saying what I'm thinking. I'm going to borrow some of these quotes ;)

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

in any case if a bike has an electric motor its motorized and there are all kinds of places to ride something with a motor besides the non-motorized trails

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Not everywhere. I mentioned earlier that in some states, like NY where I live, there are NO legal places to ride an OHV on public land anywhere in the state. Same thing below >

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Originally Posted by GoldMember

I didn't realize this but e-bikes are banned from public land 'natural surface' trails in Washington. This law was recently passed through the WA legislature and signed by the Governor. It provides for local land managers to use as they see fit.

https://nsmb.com/articles/washington...-bikes-trails/

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Originally Posted by concretejungle

I checked out the bike b-bear linked to but they don't have any for the lanky individual. Recommend me something for a four mile commute on roads and bike paths.

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Norco VLT S2 comes in an XL.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Of course rogue builders drove the sport. I was a rogue builder. Then went full official. Then got screwed by the trail org I founded so am now full rogue. I get that.

My point is if you (meaning ebikers) want to get sanctioned then they've got the do the work themselves. Someone else in this godforsaken thread made that point. Whining about on here isn't going to do shit.

And if ebikers don't want to be sanctioned and just want to poach then do it. Don't whine about it on this thread. Just poach.

I'm off to get some KOMs/ Strava comes first

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I have tried to advocate a little bit and got asked to leave several meetings because my line of thinking didn't fit theirs. They said that they don't need to listen to what I have to say. At this point I probably won't be a part of trying anymore locally because I'll be the guy poaching and I don't want them to know me as the guy that chooses to break the rules after being told I'm not welcome.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Mtngirl's bike doesn't cost anywhere near $4k, not even close. The gal drives a bus for a living. I've also seen pictures of her before she took up riding. A genetically gifted uber athlete she is most certainly not.

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Which misses the point i was making about her stance on humans using machines to travel efficiently in the mountains/wilderness.

As I previously said, I road one at a demo day here where they are currently allowed. The trail system is steeper with designated up and down trails. People also shuttle this area. The Pivot ebike also has a 10k price tag, and while heavy, I had a really good time on the downhill, but also the uphill. Sure, I can get down a bit faster on my standard bike, but I was jumping the ebike, using the built up features, and having fun. The weight on the ebike is really low on the frame. Overall a really fun time riding it.

I don't plan on buying an ebike anytime soon, but in systems where it is steeper and already is setup for car shuttle, these make sense to me. Think ridge lines with long approaches and steep descents - designated up and down trails. While meandering 2 way XC trails along rivers and such, not so much.

I got as good as or even a better workout on the ebike than I typically do at this area because much more ground was covered in the same amount of time.

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Originally Posted by gravitylover

Not everywhere. I mentioned earlier that in some states, like NY where I live, there are NO legal places to ride an OHV on public land anywhere in the state. Same thing below >

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If it's the same as you quoted then you have it wrong. E-bikes being banned from "natural surface trails" does not mean no place to ride them, it means they have to stick to motorized trails. Which absolutely exist in Washington, where Goldmember is. He's referenced a moto park in this thread and there are lots of others. If e-bikes are taken to deserted FS roads there are tons of places you can go, even ignoring motorized singletrack.

I wonder how “fireroads only” will work. Should be no problem
#kummmmbiyamf #namasteyo

Still waiting for confirmation that that exists someplace; either NY is the same as WA or it isn't.

Specifically in WA state, the wording allows local control so some public natural surface trails could be used as dictated by local authority.

"Generally, a person may not operate an electric-assisted bicycle on a trail that is designated asnonmotorized and that has a natural surface, unless otherwise authorized by the state agency
or local authority having jurisdiction over the trail."

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/bienni...20APH%2018.pdf

There's some wiggle room for use on dirt but I haven't seen anything specific to our local trails that would supercede this new law. Time may allow some trails to be opened to e-bikes but since this law only came into effect two weeks ago, it's pretty quiet so far.

i really disagree that bikes and ebikes share the same spirit, one of the main core aspects of cycling is being human powered rather than having a motor, it completely changes the dynamic of the sport

would a laser guided ball still be baseball? what about extendable go go gadget arms for basketball? or maybe running with robot legs?

ive ridden ebikes, im not against having fun on 2 wheels, but piggybacking off an established sport and trying to rewrite the rules seems like bs to me, sometimes you need to call a spade a spade


my other concern is for the groms
many of us love bikes because they gave us our first taste of freedom, our ego and confidence was directly tied to them as we grew up, ive watched shy timid kids get on bikes and discover who they are and grow confidence that translates into other aspects of their lives, its rad, and it creates quality human beings, which is important for society as a whole
if groms are charging up batteries before blasting around the block, if the size of the battery pack becomes more important than the skill and give'r attitude, then what will happen with the future generation and how they view society? that concerns me...

im all for getting kids off of couches, but putting them onto battery operated toys is a step the wrong direction imo

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

You say the darndest things


Attachment 241720

People travel specifically to glacier to ride that trail. It's awesome.

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Not only is this a great moto trail, it is also a fun bike ride. You know what happens when bikers and motorcycles meet up there? They say hi awesome trail, have a great day. They smile,And they ride on.
You know why, because it is hard and weak people can’t ride it. As in no Whiney ass bitches. You know what would happen if a motorcycle or Mt biker encountered an ebike, same thing. Strong people are strong of mind and body. They are not threatened by others being stronger than themselves, they know it is an inevitable fact of life.
The don’t make up weak excuses like too much trail impact or environmental degradation on any other bullshit. Weak people take it personally when they get passed so the make up fucked up rules to protect their fragile egos.

When horses fuck up my trails, I get a rake and shovel and fix them it’s that simple.
I don’t have an ebike , but they seem sweet to me.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I was speaking more towards Mtngirl, and where she lives probably 1/3 up to 1/2 of all the mtn bike trails are unsanctioned shuttle trails that get hammered by DH bikes which blow up the trails far more than an average e-bike.

I was also questioning why she was such a proponent of keeping wilderness areas only open to those willing to get there 100% under their own power without the need for technology... but oh yeah, its cool if you use a $4000 machine to get there too, because she currently owns one... but its not cool if you use an extremely similar machine because she doesnt have one.

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There are also a lot of unsanctioned trails you have to pedal for. Also lots of legal trails you have to pedal here and nearby.

Those are the trails I'm concerned about..

Shuttle trails, moto trails, ebike away.. i don't give a fuck.

Also, my nearly 4,000 dollar (full retail) bike was stolen. Current hardtail, 1500, used.

And I'm actually opposed it bikes in designated wilderness almost all the time. I might support a loophole to have a few connector trails to complete long rides or allow a pass through in a large wilderness area, mostly, I just don't think bikes belong in wilderness areas.

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Originally Posted by El Kanone

Not only is this a great moto trail, it is also a fun bike ride. You know what happens when bikers and motorcycles meet up there? They say hi awesome trail, have a great day. They smile,And they ride on.
You know why, because it is hard and weak people can’t ride it. As in no Whiney ass bitches. You know what would happen if a motorcycle or Mt biker encountered an ebike, same thing. Strong people are strong of mind and body. They are not threatened by others being stronger than themselves, they know it is an inevitable fact of life.
The don’t make up weak excuses like too much trail impact or environmental degradation on any other bullshit. Weak people take it personally when they get passed so the make up fucked up rules to protect their fragile egos.

When horses fuck up my trails, I get a rake and shovel and fix them it’s that simple.
I don’t have an ebike , but they seem sweet to me.

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It's also very lightly used and so it's easy to share.

Try allowing motos on a busy trail system and it doesnt work so well.

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Originally Posted by El Kanone

Not only is this a great moto trail, it is also a fun bike ride. You know what happens when bikers and motorcycles meet up there? They say hi awesome trail, have a great day. They smile,And they ride on.
You know why, because it is hard and weak people can’t ride it. As in no Whiney ass bitches. You know what would happen if a motorcycle or Mt biker encountered an ebike, same thing. Strong people are strong of mind and body. They are not threatened by others being stronger than themselves, they know it is an inevitable fact of life.
The don’t make up weak excuses like too much trail impact or environmental degradation on any other bullshit. Weak people take it personally when they get passed so the make up fucked up rules to protect their fragile egos.

When horses fuck up my trails, I get a rake and shovel and fix them it’s that simple.
I don’t have an ebike , but they seem sweet to me.

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Word!!!

Amazing when you meet and work together with different user groups. All of a sudden they aren’t the boogie man. In Banff I’d always say hi to the horse back riders. They were rude at first then by the end of the year they’d recognize me. After a particular long loop that I ran out of light in a storm, they recognized me and put me up in the dood cabin and fed me. Freaked their NY clients out when they came out on the porch after supper to discover a loan shivering rider in the middle of nowhere, waiting for the rain to subside.It was an annual thing every year with the new horse guides. Same result. Say hi and let them pass goes a long way.
Interesting to see Jeremy Jones on one. He doesn’t have to prove he’s a bad ass climber. Nothing to prove. Just go have fun and probably gets the same workout(more than most). Others look for excuses to discredit e bikes while simultaneously flexing in their speedos on why they don’t “need” them

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Originally Posted by forty

my other concern is for the groms
many of us love bikes because they gave us our first taste of freedom, our ego and confidence was directly tied to them as we grew up, ive watched shy timid kids get on bikes and discover who they are and grow confidence that translates into other aspects of their lives, its rad, and it creates quality human beings, which is important for society as a whole
if groms are charging up batteries before blasting around the block, if the size of the battery pack becomes more important than the skill and give'r attitude, then what will happen with the future generation and how they view society? that concerns me...

im all for getting kids off of couches, but putting them onto battery operated toys is a step the wrong direction imo

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Kids have been cruising around in battery operated toys for a long time. Seems like a decade or so ago those electric scooters were all rage. I don’t think ebikes are gonna make our kids any fatter than video games.

Ya those metaphors are wack. Extenda arms in basketball? Really?
That goal would be to win. Ebike is just to get the feeling. More turns. No competition. The by product is a good workout.
With kids, it can be hard to get them off the coach. They live to go out and play but some times...... people are saying they ride more with ebikes. On their regular rides they ride more ,or precisely , more of a workout because more turns equals more reward. Some days they aren’t feeling it and it would otherwise be a day off but they can jump on there e bike and go get a short la in. Sounds like kids would get out more if that’s the case. Also kids being kids they would inevitably run out of battery or forget to charge or try and short the charge and get by. They’d end up pedalling a heavy bike or learning a valuable lesson

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

There are also a lot of unsanctioned trails you have to pedal for. Also lots of legal trails you have to pedal here and nearby.

Those are the trails I'm concerned about..

Shuttle trails, moto trails, ebike away.. i don't give a fuck.

Also, my nearly 4,000 dollar (full retail) bike was stolen. Current hardtail, 1500, used.

And I'm actually opposed it bikes in designated wilderness almost all the time. I might support a loophole to have a few connector trails to complete long rides or allow a pass through in a large wilderness area, mostly, I just don't think bikes belong in wilderness areas.

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To summarize, you are against E-bikes because you don't think they work hard enough to earn their descents and general mountain experience, because they beat up trails more than mountain bikes currently do, and because rules are rules and they need to follow the rules regarding motorized bikes. Is this about right?

do some of you really not feel that bicycling by its very nature is an activity that does not involve a motor and requires self propellant?

it just seems so obvious to me... its the core defining aspect of cycling in my eyes...

that isnt me saying ebikes are wrong or bad, its saying its not cycling and shouldnt piggyback off cycling culture and should develop its own framework and identity outside of the established long held cycling roots

i also dont think convincing kids to get on bikes by video gamifying them is a step that will lead anywhere beneficial and only moves our culture further into spending money rather than putting in effort

i feel like some of you are the first to bitch about participation trophies, but arent seeing the connection here, in my eyes this is the same shit, put in work, get reward, thats what makes bikes so radsauce, thats what makes skiing so radsauce, thats what makes things like watch collecting not radsauce, its pay to win encouragement culture imo

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

If I ever see one up there they're getting an earful.

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Yeah! Give those whipper snappers a piece of your mind!!!

Kids these days... No respect...

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!

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Originally Posted by forty

do some of you really not feel that bicycling by its very nature is an activity that does not involve a motor and requires self propellant?

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Yep. I like riding riding lifts. I also like pedaling.

There is no doubt these machines are pretty cool tech and will open up new riding adventures. However, in the near term these guys are going create a shit ton of controversy and user conflicts in the semi to crowded riding areas near more urbanized locations. These areas do not need more conflict. Its already happening in Marin. The bike industry is, of course, all in because more sales, more $$. Wait until they start changing the standard axles sizes , battery attachments etc. each year on the new models. Specialized loves this. These guys are going to be huge and my guess is ebikes going to be the next major growth market for them as long as they can figure out how to squash them little pesty start ups. Local bike shops are pushing these guys like crack to the well heeled urbanite. New shops specializing in ebikes are sprouting up. We are doomed and most certainly headed for more constant whinning and finger pointing on all sides (its already started in this forum). I have lost a lot respect for Jeremy Jones, just another corporate promotion slut now or maybe always was but I was ignorant of that behavior.

If you live in more uncrowded rural riding areas, enjoy!. My guess is that the conflict will be sorted out by the time its starts to impact you.

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Originally Posted by forty

do some of you really not feel that bicycling by its very nature is an activity that does not involve a motor and requires self propellant?

it just seems so obvious to me... its the core defining aspect of cycling in my eyes...

that isnt me saying ebikes are wrong or bad, its saying its not cycling and shouldnt piggyback off cycling culture and should develop its own framework and identity outside of the established long held cycling roots

i also dont think convincing kids to get on bikes by video gamifying them is a step that will lead anywhere beneficial and only moves our culture further into spending money rather than putting in effort

i feel like some of you are the first to bitch about participation trophies, but arent seeing the connection here, in my eyes this is the same shit, put in work, get reward, thats what makes bikes so radsauce, thats what makes skiing so radsauce, thats what makes things like watch collecting not radsauce, its pay to win encouragement culture imo

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Land managers and non biking groups see that an ebike is motorized. Because they're the actors with which sanctioned trails must coexist they're the important point of view.

Anyone else here arguing that ebikes are different from motos is just wind in the air. It's the LMs and other user groups to which you'll have to make that difficult sell

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Originally Posted by klauss

As I previously said, I road one at a demo day here where they are currently allowed. The trail system is steeper with designated up and down trails. People also shuttle this area. The Pivot ebike also has a 10k price tag, and while heavy, I had a really good time on the downhill, but also the uphill. Sure, I can get down a bit faster on my standard bike, but I was jumping the ebike, using the built up features, and having fun. The weight on the ebike is really low on the frame. Overall a really fun time riding it.

I don't plan on buying an ebike anytime soon, but in systems where it is steeper and already is setup for car shuttle, these make sense to me. Think ridge lines with long approaches and steep descents - designated up and down trails. While meandering 2 way XC trails along rivers and such, not so much.

I got as good as or even a better workout on the ebike than I typically do at this area because much more ground was covered in the same amount of time.

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On easier, naturally faster less technical trails to me the ebikes weight wasn't a big deal.

On technical slow trails the ebikes weight was quite apparent. Lots of weight shifts and body english required to make that bike work.

What kinds of trail were you riding the Pivot? Never tried one yet

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I was also questioning why she was such a proponent of keeping wilderness areas only open to those willing to get there 100% under their own power without the need for technology... but oh yeah, its cool if you use a $4000 machine to get there too, because she currently owns one... but its not cool if you use an extremely similar machine because she doesnt have one.

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Maybe that is because it is the current battle a lot of us are fighting. The difference between and E-bike and any human powered bike is painfully clear.

The groups we are fighting, yes fighting, would love nothing more than to be able to say, "Look it has a motor".

We already get lumped in with Motorcycles a lot of the time and it requires a lot of patience and education to counter that.

They have already fucked the motorized users over big time here and we (Mtn Bikers) are also getting hosed, again.

So, again. It depends on where you live and what your access issues revolve around.

Here we have areas that have been open to bikes for years being closed as RWA, we have areas designated as WSA up to 25-30 years ago now being managed as Wilderness and we can no longer ride there. Then there are the regular USFS trails. Some now have black out days where no bikes are allowed, it is a Shared system except there are no days with no hikers or horses. Even in a State as huge as Montana, access is a big deal and this isn't going to help things.

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Originally Posted by forty

do some of you really not feel that bicycling by its very nature is an activity that does not involve a motor and requires self propellant?

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I'm mostly driven by the propulsion from gravity really. In fact I've geared most of my life around coasting, aka, being lazy and letting another force do all the work.


But then again I'm a mountainbiker, not a dirt cyclist. The pedaling is always just a means to an end. That end being the coasting part. Same with skiing. We do it for coasting, which is using another force. Nobody gets into that shit for the skinning. Well maybe a few do but those people™ are fucking weirdos and should be discouraged. :D

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Originally Posted by Redsmurfer

my guess is ebikes going to be the next major growth market for them

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it already is a huge driver of growth for the bike co's and even the downstream co's like Fox, bc it was a category that basically didn't exist prior

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Originally Posted by b-bear

it already is a huge driver of growth for the bike co's and even the downstream co's like Fox, bc it was a category that basically didn't exist prior

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aand that's reeeaaaallllly what it's all about.


Like bags said, those things ride like shit going downhill. All they really do is make biking easier for people who didn't really have an interest in biking. Or a waning interest.

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Originally Posted by Mountainman

Yep. I like riding riding lifts. I also like pedaling.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

I'm mostly driven by the propulsion from gravity really. In fact I've geared most of my life around coasting, aka, being lazy and letting another force do all the work.


But then again I'm a mountainbiker, not a dirt cyclist. The pedaling is always just a means to an end. That end being the coasting part. Same with skiing. We do it for coasting, which is using another force. Nobody gets into that shit for the skinning. Well maybe a few do but those people™ are fucking weirdos and should be discouraged. :D

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im all for lifts and shuttling, i ride with guys on ebikes, i would let them tow me up if the motors would do it, i hate pedaling my mtb, thats what road bikes are for...

but by the definition of bikes that ive always known they dont have motors, thats been the standard since the beginning and changing it now has consequences that i dont think are nearly worth it when they could simply create their own culture from the ground up

just like slapping a motor on a bike seems like a really shitty engineering answer, someone should design an electric 2 wheeled offroad transportation device that doesnt rely on bike crap and really kick ass, the fact that the industry is trying to sneak in on an already established market and change the game is bullshit to me, its not the product, its the way its being marketed that i have beef with

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Originally Posted by Not bunion

Maybe that is because it is the current battle a lot of us are fighting. The difference between and E-bike and any human powered bike is painfully clear.

The groups we are fighting, yes fighting, would love nothing more than to be able to say, "Look it has a motor".

We already get lumped in with Motorcycles a lot of the time and it requires a lot of patience and education to counter that.

They have already fucked the motorized users over big time here and we (Mtn Bikers) are also getting hosed, again.

So, again. It depends on where you live and what your access issues revolve around.

Here we have areas that have been open to bikes for years being closed as RWA, we have areas designated as WSA up to 25-30 years ago now being managed as Wilderness and we can no longer ride there. Then there are the regular USFS trails. Some now have black out days where no bikes are allowed, it is a Shared system except there are no days with no hikers or horses. Even in a State as huge as Montana, access is a big deal and this isn't going to help things.

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Ive agreed whole-heartedly with this point many times in this thread so far. In fact, i think it is the one singular point that has logic and truth to it, and doesnt rely on some misplaced jealousy.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

I'm mostly driven by the propulsion from gravity really. In fact I've geared most of my life around coasting, aka, being lazy and letting another force do all the work.


But then again I'm a mountainbiker, not a dirt cyclist. The pedaling is always just a means to an end. That end being the coasting part. Same with skiing. We do it for coasting, which is using another force. Nobody gets into that shit for the skinning. Well maybe a few do but those people™ are fucking weirdos and should be discouraged. :D

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That's weird. I love skinning.

This is a nice summary of eBikers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rp8Jy8ab24

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

That's weird. I love skinning.

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Check the battery on your sarcasm meter.

OK then. I needed PR relief and though I'd start a thread in a new room. How did that go for me

A dog bit me a couple days ago while riding my Schwinn. What are you guys packing? Squirt gun with a water/amonia spray. Airsoft pistol? Once bitten twice shy?

I was/am pretty anti-ebike but a have seen a good argument for the other side. I've got an ex coworker that is in his late 50's, has had two heart attacks, and is missing one leg below the knee from a climbing accident long ago. He likes riding bikes, but it's harder for him now. Now he gets to ride to work, and hit some mellow trails on the way if he likes. Hard to argue against that.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

On easier, naturally faster less technical trails to me the ebikes weight wasn't a big deal.

On technical slow trails the ebikes weight was quite apparent. Lots of weight shifts and body english required to make that bike work.

What kinds of trail were you riding the Pivot? Never tried one yet

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That's a good point. The trails I rode were mostly high speed flow trails with high berms and moderate jumps. With some other more DH chunk stuff mixed in. Nothing very difficult or very technical. blue with some black. On the few chunkier slow sections or the handful of drops to tighter turns/sections and log stream crossings where balance matters I didn't feel very overwhelmed by the weight, but I could see that coming into play on real gnarly technical stuff.

To me these bikes are more like lift skiing, except the uphill is much more fun than a chairlift and you are still getting some exercise while the downhill is pretty much like my standard bike but a bit heavier. I wouldn't care to ride these things where I ride my dirt bike.

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Originally Posted by Get.Kronk

I was/am pretty anti-ebike but a have seen a good argument for the other side. I've got an ex coworker that is in his late 50's, has had two heart attacks, and is missing one leg below the knee from a climbing accident long ago. He likes riding bikes, but it's harder for him now. Now he gets to ride to work, and hit some mellow trails on the way if he likes. Hard to argue against that.

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The ADA is like the mob... actually, I don't think even Mexican drug cartels would take on the ADA.

As soon as precedent is set that disability can allow motors into non motorized areas then all terrain wheelchairs are going into the wilderness...

http://youtu.be/EzoYiLxk-34

And the ADA has strict privacy laws. If someone says they are disabled, they are disabled.

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

The ADA is like the mob... actually, I don't think even Mexican drug cartels would take on the ADA.

As soon as precedent is set that disability can allow motors into non motorized areas then all terrain wheelchairs are going into the wilderness...

http://youtu.be/EzoYiLxk-34

And the ADA has strict privacy laws. If someone says they are disabled, they are disabled.

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Tell us more about your experience with disability and the laws surrounding protections.

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Originally Posted by forty

im all for lifts and shuttling, i ride with guys on ebikes, i would let them tow me up if the motors would do it, i hate pedaling my mtb, thats what road bikes are for...

but by the definition of bikes that ive always known they dont have motors, thats been the standard since the beginning and changing it now has consequences that i dont think are nearly worth it when they could simply create their own culture from the ground up

just like slapping a motor on a bike seems like a really shitty engineering answer, someone should design an electric 2 wheeled offroad transportation device that doesnt rely on bike crap and really kick ass, the fact that the industry is trying to sneak in on an already established market and change the game is bullshit to me, its not the product, its the way its being marketed that i have beef with

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I don't even shuttle or ride lifts that much. I'm fine climbing whatever it's just not why I'm out there.


I hear you on the half assery of e-bikes. They're like dual sport....not really good at either.

Both of these iterations look way more fun

the real thing
https://www.altamotors.co/

the lightweight option
https://www.electricbike.com/sur-ron/

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Originally Posted by Get.Kronk

I was/am pretty anti-ebike but a have seen a good argument for the other side. I've got an ex coworker that is in his late 50's, has had two heart attacks, and is missing one leg below the knee from a climbing accident long ago. He likes riding bikes, but it's harder for him now. Now he gets to ride to work, and hit some mellow trails on the way if he likes. Hard to argue against that.

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This needs some respect the same way bikes should be allowed where they're appropriate for the trail (W or not) and the same way the disabled should be allowed to get out there by whatever means they need to use. Just because a lot of able bodies ride bikes shouldn't stop bikes from being used by people whose disabilities leave them with the ability to ride. Nor should anyone have to justify the level of their disability to get out there. The current system is if you have a bad knee and can't hike anymore you're supposed to sit on your couch and take courage from the fact that other people are hiking--but only hiking--in your favorite Wilderness. That's bullshit. The guy with one bad knee has just as much right to be there as anyone else and denying him because it's more convenient to ban people by class (as long as you aren't in that class) than to let a few more impede on "your" solitude is the height of American hypocrisy.

Mtngirl isn't up to speed on all the facts, so I'll give her a pass, but to correct one simple thing: the ADA allows electric wheelchairs in Federally Designated Wilderness. Already. The only stipulation is that the electric wheelchair has to be suitable for use indoors. Know what isn't suitable for use indoors? Gas engines. Pretty much anything else goes. That's the law today.

I am 100% on board that an e-bike avalanche on non-motorized trails would be a disaster (by design). But when the jackasses on their couches finally die and the system can be fixed, the use of bikes and e-bikes by those who wouldn't get out otherwise should not be denied.