Electric Bike Thread

I’m a bit surprised , not entirely surprised, to see a fair bit of open minded posts. It’s been almost a taboo topic. Be careful where you bring the subject up. It kind of reminds me of the early days when bikes started to get more specialized and separated between xc and dh. When there was nobody riding bikes we could go anywhere. There were no signs and no closures. I could ride anywhere in the national parks and did. Just off the pavement surrounding the townsite I could see my tracks 4 days later or if tracks had gone over them I could know who’s they were from their tire combo(there were only 6 or 8 tire options then). Then people started to discover the sport and signs went up. Timing allowed us to poach selectively for a few years. Then more people discovered it and then we had freeride/dh bikes or xc bikes. Sierra club , environmentalists, horse back riders and the law were now looking at mountain bikes as terrorists out to destroy the world(in spite of similar outside pursuits). Then the xc demographic was accepted . They promoted themselves as respectable citizens as opposed to the ruffian dhers . A lot of the xc riders threw dh riders under the bus using the same excuses that they were discriminated for . I’ve always just thought of myself as a mountain biker. Dh xc whatever. I like bikes on dirt. I would discuss the dh biker hate with friends and acquaintances and they would say “but your a downhiller”. Funny because I’ve road as much or more xc but because they only road xc and/or we’re scared to ride dh, I was a dh’er and because they didn’t or couldn’t do it dh riding was bad/evil for the same reason all mountain bikers years previously were ostracized. It’s not identical but the e bike thing has a familiar ring. I think there’s a time and a place and it’ll need regulations and signage but there’s certainly worse environmental 2 wheel pursuits that I’m ok with. There’s been a slight boost in bike sales were e bikes have been excepted and there’s been more miles covered but it’s been far from an onslaught. Populations are getting fitter because of them along with seasoned riders and lbs’ have seen a similar slight tic in business and trails are getting built with/because of them. It’s give and take but seems like the big picture is positive. The great trails we have now are by in large a result of the great bikes we have now. I can think of about 7 or 8 local high mountain loops that could easily be linked with these. Place is great now, it’d be unreal with a few 5-7000ft up and overs surrounding the town

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Originally Posted by b-bear

Luckily for the e-bikers around here we have tons of dirt biking/ motorized access trails.

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Really? I wouldn't want to be sharing trails with fully-geared-up guys on 50 horsepower 2 stroke motocross bikes roosting gravel at me in my t-shirt and bike helmet going 5x slower with my electric mountain bike. Mixing dirtbikes with emtb's is a way worse mix than mixing ebikes and pedal bikes imho.

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Yeah, what happens when you are way the fuck in the middle of BFE and your battery dies? Riding a 40+lb bike back to civilization could be pretty fun. Will we see an increase in rescues of E-bikers?

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How would that be different than any bikepacking trip?

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

How would that be different than any bikepacking trip?

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Because if the 40+lb ebike breaks the rider has to push a 40+lb thing loaded with gear.

If a regular bike breaks, it's more likely to be fixable on the trail, the rider pedalled to where ever they are and wasn't counting on a battery to get them out and they only have to push a 20ish lb thing loaded with gear.

Not a reason not to take an ebike packing trip on motorized trails, but something to think about. When you make it easy people without the required experience are more likely to be there...

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

Really? I wouldn't want to be sharing trails with fully-geared-up guys on 50 horsepower 2 stroke motocross bikes roosting gravel at me in my t-shirt and bike helmet going 5x slower with my electric mountain bike. Mixing dirtbikes with emtb's is a way worse mix than mixing ebikes and pedal bikes imho.

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What about hikers that already feel this intimidation you speak of about pedal bikes? Now we want them to share with even faster bikes?

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

The rules weren't made for the technology we currently have. Trying to apply rules set up to distinguish between a 1985 Stumpjumper and a 1985 Honda CR250 to a pedal enduro bike versus an enduro ebike is just fundamentalism. It's "NO MOTORS OF ANY KIND" fundamentalism....which is just as ridiculous as any other kind of fundamentalism.

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It's like people who quote parts of the bible but not all of it. Like gun control, the thought of the automatic weapons that are out there now weren't even conceived. This is why we have 80MPH speed limits in some areas because the automotive technonoly is safe at that speed. Laws need to adjust for the technology at hand.

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

Now we want them to share with even faster bikes?

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Yup. I want them to do that, and I don't even think it's that big of a deal.

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

Yup. I want them to do that, and I don't even think it's that big of a deal.

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But you don't want to share with motos?

At least where I live, there's a significant difference between walking my dog where there's moto use and where there is ebike use. The whole moto situation is people just hauling ass who just run stuff over at speed. They'll just run you over and kill you with a snowmobile or an atv. Ebike riders aren't really in the habit of just running over stuff that's in their way.

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

What about hikers that already feel this intimidation you speak of about pedal bikes? Now we want them to share with even faster bikes?

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Now, you are concerned about the hikers. E-bikes max out at 20MPH which is slower than any novice to expert level rider can hit on down hills and even some flats. I have been riding one off and on for the past few weeks along with a acoustic bike. On a hill climb, it was faster but still not as fast as what the top 20 are on Strava. So, if speed is the issue...how do we control fast riders? Start monitoring Strava? What about the horses on the trail, horses are fast, they scare hikers. A horse is more likely to get spooked and go faster and scare hikers and bikers more than an e-bike can.

What else do you got?

A Honda motocross motorcycle is so much different than a pedal-assist bicycle.

Can anybody else who has ridden dirtbikes back me up on this? It's not the same thing.

Closed to motorized is closed to this:


pedal-assist bicycles are not the same.

1. They can be modified to go faster.

2. Lots of multi use trails allow bikes to go up climbing trails but not down for safety reasons... pedal bikes climb pretty slow, rarely much faster than jogging. Sure, a few outlier, xc riders are super fast because they worked to get there. Ebikes will make Joe nextdoor who is reasonably fit but never rode a mountain bike just as fast. This is dangerous for hikers... and trail access.

3. There is limited enforcement of any rules on trails. If one ebike is allowed, all ebikes will be there and they will get faster and more powerful.

4. Human power is a thing. We spend our lives in cars, with cell phones, houses with TVs and appliances and computers that suck up resources and power and everything else.

Having places that you have to use your own body's energy to get to is good for everyone.

5. Emountain bikes are not the same as pedal mountain bikes and should not be treated as such.

fundamentalism

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

1. They can be modified to go faster.

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So can the gearing on a acoustic bike. So can a PED enhanced rider. Since you are going to bring up extremes, lets get them all out.

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

2. Lots of multi use trails allow bikes to go up climbing trails but not down for safety reasons... pedal bikes climb pretty slow, rarely much faster than jogging. Sure, a few outlier, xc riders are super fast because they worked to get there. Ebikes will make Joe nextdoor who is reasonably fit but never rode a mountain bike just as fast. This is dangerous for hikers... and trail access.

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I have been passed by trail runners. How do you know Joe has never ridden a mountain bike? How do you know it's more dangerous..I am sure you have the stats to back it up.

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

3. There is limited enforcement of any rules on trails. If one ebike is allowed, all ebikes will be there and they will get faster and more powerful.

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There are designated classes for these bikes set by the manufacturers, I seriously doubt that they will be designed to go faster, in fact I am guessing that might see them dropping back to 20KhM at some point for off trail specific bikes.

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

4. Human power is a thing. We spend our lives in cars, with cell phones, houses with TVs and appliances and computers that suck up resources and power and everything else.

Having places that you have to use your own body's energy to get to is good for everyone.

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And yet you are on your virtual soap box telling others how to live their lives.

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

5. Emountain bikes are not the same as pedal mountain bikes and should not be treated as such.

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And this knowledge comes from the many miles you have logged on one, right?

Put me on the list of want. Something to commute to work year round, hauling the kiddos gear to the beach, grabbing a few groceries on the way back from work, etc. Studded fat tires in winter, and 29ers in the summer. I think they would be the bomb for deer hunting the older grown-in forestry roads, nice and quiet. Maybe next spring, 10 months to appeal to my wife’s generous side...

Speed and distance increase impact.

On trails, on humans, on wildlife.

Human powered and battery power is not the same.

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Originally Posted by Flexon Phil

So can the gearing on a acoustic bike. So can a PED enhanced rider. Since you are going to bring up extremes, lets get them all out.

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human power has human limits.

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I have been passed by trail runners. How do you know Joe has never ridden a mountain bike? How do you know it's more dangerous..I am sure you have the stats to back it up.

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Speed always increases danger.

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There are designated classes for these bikes set by the manufacturers, I seriously doubt that they will be designed to go faster, in fact I am guessing that might see them dropping back to 20KhM at some point for off trail specific bikes.

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Who will monitor this? Home mods or just a different sticker makes it impossible to enforce.

You can buy kits and make just about any bike an ebike...

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And yet you are on your virtual soap box telling others how to live their lives.

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No, I disagree with your opinion that electric powered bikes are the same and belong in the same place as human powered bikes. I could care less what you ride provided you don't bring motors on non motorized trails.

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And this knowledge comes from the many miles you have logged on one, right?

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I'm not sure why I need to ride something to see how fast it goes and know it has a motor.

I'm sure they are a riot. They still are not non motorized vehicles. They still should not be classified as "bikes".

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

Speed and distance increase impact.

On trails, on humans, on wildlife.

Human powered and battery power is not the same.

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So, how fast are riders allowed to ride? How far are they allowed to ride?

No, they are not the same. These are an assist and do NOT work unless the rider is actually pedalling.

https://media.giphy.com/media/7z60uukpYWFLG/giphy.gif

conservative fundamentalist opponents of progress

The real question here is whether or not Mormon missionaries can ride an ebike. Or the Amish!

Ebikes: where Mtngirl becomes bedfellows with the Amish.

Interesting comparison between young super fit rider and middle age so so fit.


A family that plays together stays together eh

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

No, I disagree with your opinion that electric powered bikes are the same and belong in the same place as human powered bikes. I could care less what you ride provided you don't bring motors on non motorized trails.

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OK - great we all know your opinion. Now why don't you go start your own thread on that subject instead of endlessly repeating yourself otherwise selfishly hijacking this thread to satisfy your own self interest?

My brother and I rode our ebikes just the other day!

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Always a competition with bros. Not sure bike riding is their comp though. Sweet flannels!!

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

1. They can be modified to go faster.

2. Lots of multi use trails allow bikes to go up climbing trails but not down for safety reasons... pedal bikes climb pretty slow, rarely much faster than jogging. Sure, a few outlier, xc riders are super fast because they worked to get there. Ebikes will make Joe nextdoor who is reasonably fit but never rode a mountain bike just as fast. This is dangerous for hikers... and trail access.

3. There is limited enforcement of any rules on trails. If one ebike is allowed, all ebikes will be there and they will get faster and more powerful.

4. Human power is a thing. We spend our lives in cars, with cell phones, houses with TVs and appliances and computers that suck up resources and power and everything else.

Having places that you have to use your own body's energy to get to is good for everyone.

5. Emountain bikes are not the same as pedal mountain bikes and should not be treated as such.

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1. Cars can be modified too. But we don't ban all cars. We simply trust people and ticket the obvious ones.

2. Lots of paved bike/jogging paths in the area where peds and bikes get along fine. It's called slow down when it's not safe. Also, no one has ever been scared by a rider grunting up the trail hahaha.

3. There is limited enforcement of all rider behavior: skidding berms, going too fast, not yeilding etc. But we don't ban all bikes, we just say that person is a dick and realize most folks are good trail users.

4. Get off your machine and go hike then. Oh, you forgot that you are using a machine to climb and descend? Looks like Sierra club had it right all along!

5. DH bikes are not the same as xc bikes and should be treated as such. Did you know that DH bikes hold Strava KOMs at galby? Did you also know that the speed you carry on a DH bike and way you ride it is more destructive to a trail than ebikes? Should we ban all DH bikes to?

Where does this fit?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JLZ1s2NHcVU

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

Really? I wouldn't want to be sharing trails with fully-geared-up guys on 50 horsepower 2 stroke motocross bikes roosting gravel at me in my t-shirt and bike helmet going 5x slower with my electric mountain bike. Mixing dirtbikes with emtb's is a way worse mix than mixing ebikes and pedal bikes imho.

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nah it’s fine we share a lot of the off the beaten path mtb trails with them already. you can hear them from far away and there’s a shit ton of area to get away once they pass. still low population here so we’re dealing ok for now

^^^ Yeah, Yeti's old stomping grounds in Ogden have a bunch of trails where anything goes. Bikes, motos, horses, scout troops. Some of the rides are burly and the scenery is as good as it gets. It all seems to work too but I wouldn't want things to be like that everywhere.

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

A Honda motocross motorcycle is so much different than a pedal-assist bicycle.

Can anybody else who has ridden dirtbikes back me up on this? It's not the same thing.

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Not the same thing. Yet.

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Originally Posted by ACH

OK - great we all know your opinion. Now why don't you go start your own thread on that subject instead of endlessly repeating yourself otherwise selfishly hijacking this thread to satisfy your own self interest?

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Ok but we all get you disagree, too? It's always like this. Shut up if you are in opposition to the majority...?

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Originally Posted by Flexon Phil

So, how fast are riders allowed to ride? How far are they allowed to ride?

No, they are not the same. These are an assist and do NOT work unless the rider is actually pedalling.

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However fast/far they can go without a motor assisting them.

My point is that this is why electric mountain bikes are different than human powered mountain bikes so they need to be considered separately.

Realizing that it is a big and diverse world in both flora and geography would work maybe.

e bike would do this.

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The real free for all was in rural New Mexico. It's such a free for all there that I regularly rode dirt bikes on the highway because I knew even if some sheriff tried to stop me I'd be in the next county before he even had a second unit there to assist....and they knew it too so they didn't even bother.

I rode all kinds of forest service trails, never even checked what was officially what. Same as many friends. That place was the same as where I grew up, off-road meant you could run into whatever, so nobody got their wads in a bunch if they saw some other kind of recreation taking place. That all changed in 20 years while I was gone, I came back and there's tons of mtb trail now, but they closed it to anything except mtb and hikers. One set of people gets their way, the other has to sell the house and move somewhere else I guess. Basically here, everyone who used to like dirt bikes and atvs moved to another town, and now the doctors and dentists with the $5000 bikes have a cutesy little exclusive club.

I imagine some of the heartburn about ebikes has to do with the possibility that somebody not in the fancy little spandex club might get to enjoy the trails as they used to 20 years ago before the Big Yuppie Trail Lockdown.

Might be the other way around. Good ebikes cost as much as good MTBs but then add on 2-3k for the motor.

it stinks of elitism. I can't be precise but I sense it.

Somebody who's not a Serious Cyclist in a Lycra Racing Jersey full of Sponsorship Logos might actually enjoy riding uphill faster than a snapping turtle....**gasp**

fuck it.

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Originally Posted by muted

Huh, I'm surprised it would be used for training because they are so heavy on the DH and would therefore handle differently.

But I'd like to try one and see what I'm missing.

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That’s what I was thinking too. One of the vids I posted comparing an e bike and regular bike, the e bike was nice and stable jumping but they gave a slight edge to the normal bike on super tech riding because of less weight. Some companies have very similar bikes in their line up . Lapierre has an almost identical e and non e bike with that fauza motor. It’s only 39lbs .Take the motor and battery out and it’s a 29lb normal trail bike 140rear and 150front full suspension. I keep looking at the Commencal . Great price and similar to there enduro bike except longer chainstays and 12 extra lbs. hoping they have a model with the fazau motor in the future. Great price on their bikes. Commencal supreme sx with a fazua motor would be my ideal choice

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

The real free for all was in rural New Mexico. It's such a free for all there that I regularly rode dirt bikes on the highway because I knew even if some sheriff tried to stop me I'd be in the next county before he even had a second unit there to assist....and they knew it too so they didn't even bother.

I rode all kinds of forest service trails, never even checked what was officially what. Same as many friends. That place was the same as where I grew up, off-road meant you could run into whatever, so nobody got their wads in a bunch if they saw some other kind of recreation taking place. That all changed in 20 years while I was gone, I came back and there's tons of mtb trail now, but they closed it to anything except mtb and hikers. One set of people gets their way, the other has to sell the house and move somewhere else I guess. Basically here, everyone who used to like dirt bikes and atvs moved to another town, and now the doctors and dentists with the $5000 bikes have a cutesy little exclusive club.

I imagine some of the heartburn about ebikes has to do with the possibility that somebody not in the fancy little spandex club might get to enjoy the trails as they used to 20 years ago before the Big Yuppie Trail Lockdown.

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A lot of this is about population.

20 local guys riding dirtbikes all over isn't a big deal. 1000 is different.

Dirtbikes, ATVs, 4wheeling are all extremely distructive.

Groups that can co-exist and cause less impact get more space, especially when there are more of them.