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Split the difference! Just bump the clock a half hour ahead year round. I'm sure everyone will love that.
(But yeah, I'm in the dst year round camp. In the dead of winter it's dark when I go to work, and it's dark when I leave work, but with dst it'd only be dark when I go to work.)
https://aasm.org/advocacy/position-s...tion-statementQuote:
Originally Posted by Flounder
"However, when temporary, year-round DST was adopted in response to an Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) oil embargo, increased fatalities among school-aged children in the morning were noted between January and April."
"DST results in more darkness in the morning hours, and more light in the evening hours. Both early morning darkness and light in the evening have a similar effect on circadian phase, causing the endogenous rhythm to shift to later in the day. There is evidence that the body clock does not adjust to DST even after several months.26 Permanent DST could therefore result in permanent phase delay, a condition that can also lead to a perpetual discrepancy between the innate biological clock and the extrinsic environmental clock, as well as chronic sleep loss due to early morning social demands that truncate the opportunity to sleep. The chronic misalignment between the timing of demands of work, school, or other obligations against the innate circadian rhythm is called “social jet lag.”27 Studies show that social jet lag is associated with an increased risk of obesity,28 metabolic syndrome,29 cardiovascular disease,30 and depression.3"
"Existing data support the elimination of seasonal time changes in favor of a fixed, year-round time. DST can cause misalignment between the biological clock and environmental clock, resulting in significant health and public safety-related consequences, especially in the days immediately following the annual change to DST. A change to permanent standard time is best aligned with human circadian biology and has the potential to produce beneficial effects for public health and safety."
I'm starting to get annoyed with people's insistence that we switch to permanent DST despite all the evidence showing its probably a terrible idea for society at large and will likely cause far more issues than are caused by the switching we do now.
Wait until you hear about all of the jurisdictions that don't have any recycling pickup. Or about the ones that have no recycling capabilities at all!Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
Yeah, why wouldn't they just lock it in at standard time?Quote:
Originally Posted by evdog
Oh, right--it's about the money. It's always about the fucking money.
"And the biggest argument for this approach may be an economic one. The idea is that having more light in the evenings encourages people to go out and do things — i.e., spend money.
The nation's convenience stores, for example, told a congressional subcommittee that they see an uptick in spending when clocks are set to daylight saving." from NPR
Fuck those kids, we want to ride our bikes in the evening!
We’re doomed because of the asshats that only care about their selfish desires and not what’s good for everyone. It’s not conjecture that standard time is better, it’s backed up by facts, you know, statistics that show DST increases accidents and workplace errors.
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Let's get annoyed at something that really matters. I find Meghan and Harry to be pretty fucking annoying.
mint toothpaste
Well, my kids want to ride bikes in the evening too. I asked them and they said they're willing to risk it for permanent dst. They're very brave children.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
I'll take a couple days of discomfort for a couple months of more daylight after work. Hit the sack a little early tonight and won't even notice the time change by Tuesday...I will notice having time for a ride after work in the coming weeks.
We can barely fund the government reliably. You guys think a change with how we keep time is likely enough to debate the pros and cons of it?
My kid had volleyball. Team was too big so they split it midseason and ended up with a good team and a bad team. The good team got better with the season and the bad team just lost all will to even try. My poor kid was on the bad team, and I’m not saying she didn’t belong there, she has my genes. But they never rebalanced the teams and never pulled the bad team out of the dumps, and it was painful to watch and made for a pretty sad experience to watch for my kid. Maybe it’s character building but I’m not really sure that’s what it was.
On the flip side, I’m back home after today’s tournament and the good team parents are all still hanging out in a middle school gym, so….
Many also have the choice to not change their normal routines relative to what it says on the clock.
Again, I think safety concerns backed by statistics trump recreational opportunities. You live in Kalispell? It’ll still be light until almost 2100 in June on MST.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
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The parents who are complaining about this would never let their kids walk to school to begin with. So they can STFU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder
My junior high school started at 8am, so in winter the walk to school was pitch dark for a couple months. No one cared about that (an no kids died), but everyone hated having to get up an hour earlier.
Yeah, it's like Churchill's famous quote that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other forms of government that have been tried. Switching the clocks twice per year sucks, but it's better than either permanent standard time or permanent daylight time. The original premise is shockingly still valid: move the clocks forward an hour in the spring to better align sunlight with the time the most people are active. Move it back in the fall so it doesn't stay dark for too long in the morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder
Back in my restaurant workin days, we had the opposite experience. We saw a definite decline in biz when daylight savings kicked in. People didn’t want to go out to 5 or 530 dinners while it was still light out. During the winter, those tables were booked solidQuote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
I seem to recall that a big part of the issue is kids waiting for the bus getting hit by people driving to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by evdog
Personally, I think splitting the difference makes sense, but that you should redraw time zones to better reflect the "ideal" permanent time. There's a damn big difference between permanent DST and standard time on the east and west ends of the time zone.
what we need are 48 time zones. problem solved.
Somehow or other this country managed to thrive without DST until WWII, when it was instituted so that people would use less electricity for lighting in the evening.. Up to then the idea that the days are longer in the summer and shorter in the winter was somehow dealt with. Anyway, my gripe is not so much about DST as that the ski areas for the most part don't adjust their hours to adapt to conditions. And I wouldn't mind not having to stay up until 10 on July 4th to watch the Donner Lake fireworks.
I lived for a year in AZ. I never heard anyone complain that they didn't have DST. Of course in Tucson outdoor recreation in the summer was before work, not after.
So your anecdotal experience is more valid than facts that show switching time and DST causes more accidents, errors and lost money? What a selfish shitty take on the topicQuote:
Originally Posted by evdog
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Seems like DST vs standard time needs to become the defining issue of the 2024 presidential election.
Try waiting until 1100 for it to be dark enough for fireworks just south of 49Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...02db0a3023.jpg
“…it’s mostly the morning crowd that would benefit from abolishing DST”
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...64ec452f49.jpg
^yellow showing where DST time changes are done
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...072692db45.jpg
^most of Arizona does not observe DST
Many schools in my area have just gone through an adjustment to make HS start times later to accommodate the sleep science which says waking up teenagers to go to school in the dark is a bad idea. So my assumption is that they will response to permanent DST by just moving the school start time later thus negating at least some of the afternoon/evening recreation in the light thing anyways.
Living just south of the 49th and at the far western end of a time zone, I vividly remember kick ball games in the street until 11pm as a preteen.
Yeah, one of my earliest memories was being told to go to bed and then my dad would go out and mow at 9pmQuote:
Originally Posted by Mustonen
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Wow, I was all hung up on the science, but here are two other great reasons the sun should go down early. :)
It’s not a reason to abolish DST but there is data that supports abolishing it
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What kind of psychopath decided a 6pm cutoff is reasonable for sunsets?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennymac
After DST kicked in Telluride used to open a 10AM & shut down 4:30-5pm, but stopped doing it because it affected the worker's schedule relative to their partner's and kid's schedules, among other conflicts.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Well, it doesn't matter as much at 32 degrees north as it does at 47 degrees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder
^that^
Fucking cars with no oil or ATF dipstick. Had the ATF changed and it is acting wonky due to be under filled per Rennlist. Now I get to spend a few hundy taking it back in. :cussing:
mint toothpaste
I'd be good with that. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Flounder
Sorry for your loss, of fluid?Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
But srsly I’ll agree , are we not able to be trusted checking our own oil? Wtf!
Probably someone who lives somewhere like Maine, maybe in the shadow of a mountain, and is used to watching the sun disappear at 2:30 pm in January (when it's not too cloudy to see it at all).Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
That basically describes my house. 48 degrees north and a big hill to the north / west of me. And yeah, cloudy 95% of the winter. The sun goes down early in the winter, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum
I'd be pretty alright with it being dark until 10 am in the morning if it meant I got a 7pm sunset in December. Would mean I could get a post-work skinning lap without dicking around with lights.
I don't think either guy cars. Biden in bed by 7. Trump stays up all night tweating and sleeps during the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
go originalist and be against time zones we didn’t need them until after the war of northern aggression!. Or be a detroiter and want your own time zone back againQuote:
Originally Posted by old goat
I don’t care which time we use but I would be very happy if we stopped switching twice a year. I feel like shit right now