the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

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Originally Posted by mntlion

Do you want the rear cuff to be taller?

or is the shell/walk mode flexing?

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I think the rear cuff being taller would help a lot, especially considering how soft the stock liner is (it’s super light and has no plastic). Here are some pics. Thanks mtnlion.

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yup, that will also push you forward a bit more (not sure if that is good or bad for you?)

if you want a similar F lean, you can use a thick plastic food container, bolted to the upper cuff. Will stiffen the boot rearward, by making it taller, and will not change the F lean.

Right now I’m just using that spoiler because it’s the largest I have. Will experiment with reverting to the smaller stock one with less forward lean once I try that food container style mod. Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

Best method for increasing rearward support on a Salomon QST pro 130, this one?

Currently running stock liners.

Ideas- I put in a beefy racing spoiler from a plug liner, put it as high up on the liner as I could and that helped a little. Considering trying my intuition luxury liner with them, but they’re packed out as hell. Already planning to add Pulse Proflex, but that shouldn’t help with rearward stiffness.

Can provide more pics. Love the way the boot fits, fine with how it walks, fine with the way it skis besides the rearward support which is useful to have on occasion.

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Answered another thread with this but thought i'd post just for posting's sake.


Coupla basic conceptual ideas came to mind. No clue if they'd really work in the real world.

1. An easily re/re external rigid rod that spans from a mounting point on ski topsheet to upper boot rear cuff area. See pics for an rough idea of what that would look like. Something like a section of hollow alu or carbon ski pole could be a light material to use? Real world effectiveness would be influenced by ski flex obviously...so perhaps only valid for skis with stiff underfoot to tail flex patterns? Dunno, it'd be cool to try it out and see.

2. Using a very rigid material, a curved 'exoskeleton' or some sort of removable rigid rear brace than extends from boot heel shelf to top rear of cuff. Obviously would work best if the shelf is totally free and exposed as a mating surface such as when using tech binders...could probably mold something to fit in the recess of the boot/binding heel piece attachment point if required too though if using dh binders.


In pic i just used a piece of coat hanger to illustrate the basic concept...

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Originally Posted by Sashka

Today I noticed that I’m using Tour Wrap size 25 in shell size 24.5. According to Intuition size chart Tour Wrap should be round down. But that little trick (using bigger size liner) gives me room in toe box. When I try both liners without shell Dalbello Intuition liner doesn’t have enough room and length in toe box as the Intuition Tour Wraps.

So now I have following questions:
1. Could liner gain some length during molding process?
2. I’m wondering if I can do the same trick - using bigger size liner in lower shell for my dalbello boots? What Intuition liner should I check? The ones that has almost same characteristics as Tour Wrap- like 4mm sole + round down size - or the others that should be rounded up?

Ps I want a new liner for kryptons because i don’t want to beat up touring liner in resort

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I'm not sure that the liner stretches during the molding process, but a toe cap while molding will push your heel further back and also create more room in the toe box which, in my experience, allows for a great fit when in "race fit" shells.

I've always rocked a 26 Intuition in 25.5 shells (both Kryptons and XT Frees) with great success. If you're in you smallest possible shell size, I'd definitely recommend rounding up a half for your liner. Although, after molding, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between a 25.5 and 26.0 liner. YMMV.

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Technica Mach 120 LV & shin bang--Better to go with a tongue shim or Booster strap as a first step?

The lower works but the cuff is too big. Regardless of how tight I buckle the boot I can still create space behind my leg & deform the boot.
I am tall 6'1 170lbs & 27.5, skinny & have no calves.



I can finally get my feet in the boot & ski for a day. Taking them off is another story.

try a booster, also try it between the liner and the shell?

eliminator tongue might help

smaller volume shell (plug boot) might be the best answer?

Paging mtnlion.

Picking up new boots. Salomon S/Max. Need some punching and work but they fit great. Trying to decide between 120 and 130. With the stiffener plate on the back flipped to stiffer the 120s seemed like enough. Will I regret that over time, and wish I had picked up the 130s and softened them up? The 130s have an adjustable stiffener plate also.

I'm 185lbs, getting older than I was. No massive airs, not looking for pure speed on groomers any more - I ski fast but not cranking high 50s all the time or anything. The steeper and more technical the better, plus I love very steep bumps. A perfect day is filled with fast, technical, hard skiing and playing all over the mountain. Think the North Face and High Lift at Crested Butte. I have some speed skis but more and more I'm drawn to playful skis with stiff tails. Looking at those Nordica Enforcer 104s to pick up, and I have some line Sick Days 110s I like. Maybe steal the K2 Marksman from my teenager now and then. So not speed machines.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm torn. I feel like without cranking racer turns all the time I don't need the 130s. But I really don't want to be folding these things either.

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Originally Posted by beece

Paging mtnlion.

Picking up new boots. Salomon S/Max. Need some punching and work but they fit great. Trying to decide between 120 and 130. With the stiffener plate on the back flipped to stiffer the 120s seemed like enough. Will I regret that over time, and wish I had picked up the 130s and softened them up? The 130s have an adjustable stiffener plate also.

I'm 185lbs, getting older than I was. No massive airs, not looking for pure speed on groomers any more - I ski fast but not cranking high 50s all the time or anything. The steeper and more technical the better, plus I love very steep bumps. A perfect day is filled with fast, technical, hard skiing and playing all over the mountain. Think the North Face and High Lift at Crested Butte. I have some speed skis but more and more I'm drawn to playful skis with stiff tails. Looking at those Nordica Enforcer 104s to pick up, and I have some line Sick Days 110s I like. Maybe steal the K2 Marksman from my teenager now and then. So not speed machines.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm torn. I feel like without cranking racer turns all the time I don't need the 130s. But I really don't want to be folding these things either.

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FWIW, I found the 130 to be the softest boot in the 130 club. YMMV

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Originally Posted by iriponsnow

FWIW, I found the 130 to be the softest boot in the 130 club. YMMV

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That’s interesting. All the reviews say it’s the stiffest 130 out there. Huh.

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Originally Posted by beece

Paging mtnlion.

Picking up new boots. Salomon S/Max. Need some punching and work but they fit great. Trying to decide between 120 and 130. With the stiffener plate on the back flipped to stiffer the 120s seemed like enough. Will I regret that over time, and wish I had picked up the 130s and softened them up? The 130s have an adjustable stiffener plate also.

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I'm skiing softer boots these days. I find them easier to articulate my ankles in. Skis are so easy to turn now that they don't need to be bludgeoned with stiff boots. Plus 120 from one manufacturer is 130 from another. Buy what feels best and remember, when its 10-20 degrees F outside, shit stiffens up.

get stiffer, and make softer when/if needed

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Originally Posted by mntlion

get stiffer, and make softer when/if needed

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Yup. Thanks. Agreed. I bought the 130s. I was overthinking it too much.

Much better now though.

If i plan to get a new pair of boots, should i use my current custom footbeds, or allow new ones ($$$) to be made by the bootfitter?

Why dont boots come stock with a company specific Booster Strap? Seems like a cheap way to improve the fit of boots, or do they not help that much?

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

If i plan to get a new pair of boots, should i use my current custom footbeds, or allow new ones ($$$) to be made by the bootfitter?

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See how the old ones fit into the boot, and how the support is for you. Odds are they are fine still

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Why dont boots come stock with a company specific Booster Strap? Seems like a cheap way to improve the fit of boots, or do they not help that much?

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cuz money, more stuff = more cost = less poeple and stores will buy that brand/model of boot.

Yes, works well for some people (skinny legs and lots of flex) but not for all. Add them if needed

bump: cuz its that time of year again, when people want new boots, or have new boots, but no snow, so over think things.

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Originally Posted by mntlion

bump: cuz its that time of year again, when people want new boots, or have new boots, but no snow, so over think things.

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That funny because it’s true. I was the poster child for this just a few weeks ago. Well said.

Small calves: eliminator tongue shim or spoiler? Only about forward lean or anything else?

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Originally Posted by jhyatt

Small calves: eliminator tongue shim or spoiler? Only about forward lean or anything else?

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F lean shim will push you forward

Eliminator will keep you more upright.

both will fill up volume

use what ever feels better, or gives you a better stance/balance

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Originally Posted by jhyatt

Small calves: eliminator tongue shim or spoiler? Only about forward lean or anything else?

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Somewhat relevant to this discussion...kinda/sorta.

I have low volume calves, smaller circumference lower shin/above the ankles area. Ski in the Dynafit Vulcan boots and am experimenting with this mod for more even shin contact and better volume filling/even liner wrap/pressure on lower legs with a different concept of tongue for liners. My hypothesis is by having a 2/3rds, one seamless piece of foam reinforced by plastic, that front and lateral pressure input to skis will result in feeling better connection with front of skis and subtly enhanced steering control.

Also looking for a more progressive, damped forward flex of boots. Feels good in the basement, won't know how real world performance will be until the snow flies. I'll take 'em out for a few gravel ski laps but the results will only hint at how the boots will feel for 2D snow conditions. 3D snow is a different beast, IME. I started another thread on the project here in tech talk and will update as testing/refinements continue.

At this point, another point of interest is discovering where exactly the optimum connection area of fit tension is in the lower leg. Is it the full distance from ankles to upper tibia, or a distinct sweet spot zone that is smaller in area of contact/fit tension lower on the tib towards ankles? I will start running the plastic bucket tongues full length for height and pare them down if real world inputs suggest cutting plastic and foam will produce better results. I've always found through experience with the 7 pairs of ski touring boots that I've owned over the past 30 years is that they've all felt too short in height, particularly in the front 2/3rds of boots. I ski with a lot of forward pressure so having boots that felt a bit shorter in the rear didn't seem to be an issue.

Thus far one of the unintended positive benefits is fore and aft rom in tour mode... compared to stock liner and the stock Intuition high volume luxury liners I was running: much more resistance free while skinning on grass in my back yard. Who knows what new pressure points/other weird emergent issues will present themselves but hopeful the good feelz translate to real world on/in snow skinning/dryland hiking/bootpacking, etc...


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Eliminator tongues are mush. Too soft to properly fill volume.

Somewhat related to your experiment, swissiphic, I cut the tongues off the original Falcon based Salomon ghost liner. They have a hard plastic outer shell. Probably stiffer than bucket plastic. I added them to my khion liner and they skied damn well for the 10 days it took the liner to pack out everywhere else. Anyways it was pretty annoying to deal with two tongues in the morning. Zipfits also have very stiff tongues.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by swissiphic

Somewhat relevant to this discussion...kinda/sorta.

I have low volume calves, smaller circumference lower shin/above the ankles area. Ski in the Dynafit Vulcan boots and am experimenting with this mod for more even shin contact and better volume filling/even liner wrap/pressure on lower legs with a different concept of tongue for liners. My hypothesis is by having a 2/3rds, one seamless piece of foam reinforced by plastic, that front and lateral pressure input to skis will result in feeling better connection with front of skis and subtly enhanced steering control.

Also looking for a more progressive, damped forward flex of boots. Feels good in the basement, won't know how real world performance will be until the snow flies. I'll take 'em out for a few gravel ski laps but the results will only hint at how the boots will feel for 2D snow conditions. 3D snow is a different beast, IME. I started another thread on the project here in tech talk and will update as testing/refinements continue.

At this point, another point of interest is discovering where exactly the optimum connection area of fit tension is in the lower leg. Is it the full distance from ankles to upper tibia, or a distinct sweet spot zone that is smaller in area of contact/fit tension lower on the tib towards ankles? I will start running the plastic bucket tongues full length for height and pare them down if real world inputs suggest cutting plastic and foam will produce better results. I've always found through experience with the 7 pairs of ski touring boots that I've owned over the past 30 years is that they've all felt too short in height, particularly in the front 2/3rds of boots. I ski with a lot of forward pressure so having boots that felt a bit shorter in the rear didn't seem to be an issue.

Thus far one of the unintended positive benefits is fore and aft rom in tour mode... compared to stock liner and the stock Intuition high volume luxury liners I was running: much more resistance free while skinning on grass in my back yard. Who knows what new pressure points/other weird emergent issues will present themselves but hopeful the good feelz translate to real world on/in snow skinning/dryland hiking/bootpacking, etc...


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Wow that's ghetto. I love it. Any diy spoilers?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jhyatt

Wow that's ghetto. I love it. Any diy spoilers?

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Lol...ghetto....Ghettowerx is the name of my basement lab. Complete with two litter boxes...which kinda sorta inspired using plastic buckets as raw material motherships for harvesting cheap plastic.

As for spoilers, yup, working on that as well. With the better wrap of front 2/3rds of lower leg in effect, I noticed the rear contact area isn't as seamless with the fit tension...i'll post results after fabrication.

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Originally Posted by daught

Eliminator tongues are mush. Too soft to properly fill volume.

Somewhat related to your experiment, swissiphic, I cut the tongues off the original Falcon based Salomon ghost liner. They have a hard plastic outer shell. Probably stiffer than bucket plastic. I added them to my khion liner and they skied damn well for the 10 days it took the liner to pack out everywhere else. Anyways it was pretty annoying to deal with two tongues in the morning. Zipfits also have very stiff tongues.

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Awesome, thanks for the data points. For basement testing at room temps, the plastic bucket material actually does support sufficiently. I think the U shape of the plastic gives it the rigidity. But of course, all bets are off 'till i ski 'em. Was thinking, though, if stiffness isn't up to snuff, other easy, "off the (basement) shelf" options are double it up, or, just simply add the external Vulcan tongue.

Aren't you concerned all the extra stiffness in the tongue will limit the ROM? I been thinking to replace intuition liner tongue with a zipfits tongue. Zipfit have equal weight distribution on the shin but they are to stiff for touring.

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