WWMD: Carbine 275 vs Mojo HDR 650b

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Originally Posted by robnow

Really, you found the Bronson to be a quicker climber than the Mach 6? I believe the BlisterGear review also insinuates that.

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No question the Bronson is quicker on the ups than the Mach 6. By the numbers, those two bikes look like they should be somewhat similar, but the Bronson is definitely more "trail" friendly. The Mach 6 feels like it was built to go down nasty trails really fast, with all other attributes being secondary. I mean, it still pedals pretty well and will go uphill just fine, but it's really at home going down something steep. The Bronson loses ground on all out descents, but in all other respects is the more well rounded bike.

that's my $.02, for whatever its worth.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

No question the Bronson is quicker on the ups than the Mach 6. By the numbers, those two bikes look like they should be somewhat similar, but the Bronson is definitely more "trail" friendly. The Mach 6 feels like it was built to go down nasty trails really fast, with all other attributes being secondary. I mean, it still pedals pretty well and will go uphill just fine, but it's really at home going down something steep. The Bronson loses ground on all out descents, but in all other respects is the more well rounded bike.

that's my $.02, for whatever its worth.

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I was probably assuming the DW would be reactive/efficient like my HD. I also read somewhere that Chris Cocalis changes the CTD settings often on his 6.

I rode a Bronson and a Pivot Firebird 275 back to back. I have only ridden the mach 6 for such a short stretch that I don't feel that I can comment on it (but, my wife did, and she preffered the Bronson up and down over the Mach 6). I could not descend nearly as fast on techy or fast flowy stuff on the Firebird as I could on the Bronson. I'm chalking it up to crap tires and poor set-up as I still really want to like the Pivot's, but I just could not come close to maintaining the same speed as I did on the Bronson. This is all FWIW and very much IMHO. I'm starting to think I have some out there preferences on bikes. I remember when everyone was raving about Knolly Endorphins, then I got one. Damn, I hated that bike, flipped it within a month.

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Originally Posted by hick

I rode a Bronson and a Pivot Firebird 275 back to back. I have only ridden the mach 6 for such a short stretch that I don't feel that I can comment on it (but, my wife did, and she preffered the Bronson up and down over the Mach 6). I could not descend nearly as fast on techy or fast flowy stuff on the Firebird as I could on the Bronson. I'm chalking it up to crap tires and poor set-up as I still really want to like the Pivot's, but I just could not come close to maintaining the same speed as I did on the Bronson. This is all FWIW and very much IMHO. I'm starting to think I have some out there preferences on bikes. I remember when everyone was raving about Knolly Endorphins, then I got one. Damn, I hated that bike, flipped it within a month.

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Firebird and Mach 6 are fairly different bikes, for whatever that's worth. Mach 6 has a revised DW link that's substantially different, and the geometry on the Mach 6 is much more "modern" (i.e. lower, slacker, longer)

But I owned a Firebird and liked it just fine, so ymmv.

Like toast said, I imagine the Firebird feels like my HD, a little shorter and taller compared to the lower and longer Bronson/Mach 6.

Particle, maybe wait for the new Nomad? Some talk on nsmb.com speculating a 165-170 27. The next April 1 bike???

who can actually afford these bikes?? especially teh carbonz...

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Originally Posted by donkeykong

who can actually afford these bikes?? especially teh carbonz...

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Those who have sold their souls to "the man"....

I've ridden most of the bikes in this category--except the Mach 6. The Carbine is an example of a somewhat bastardized / klugey 27.5 adaptation--the Alu tracer rode better since it was designed as a 27.5. But is heavy and flexy by modern standards.

The HDR is pretty limited on rear tire size. Deal breaker for me; yMMV.

The Bronson rode the best of all the ones I tried. Has the crisp climbing efficiency out of the saddle I normally only find with DW link bikes. If you ride a lot, don't overlook the bomber SC pivot design w/ zerk fittings. Stellar, and an advantage over the Pivot if you plan to keep the frame for years.

The rear shock choice is a factor. Ie most mach6 reviews are with a piggyback float X whereas the demo Bronsons I've seen had just the float...the CCDB air/Bronson is supposedly outstanding.

Pm sent to tech tonics. Any thoughts on where the Norco Range falls into here? Looks to be more on the burly/Mach 6 end of the spectrum but can someone compare who has ridden both? Looking at these bikes as well for next season and could be persuaded to buy this fall if someone is looking to unload... Missed out on phall's spitfire but maybe someone else is holding.

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Originally Posted by deft_funk

Pm sent to tech tonics. Any thoughts on where the Norco Range falls into here? Looks to be more on the burly/Mach 6 end of the spectrum but can someone compare who has ridden both? Looking at these bikes as well for next season and could be persuaded to buy this fall if someone is looking to unload... Missed out on phall's spitfire but maybe someone else is holding.

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Range felt more well rounded than the Mach 6 (i.e. Mach 6 feels more like a mini dh bike that is out of its element on slower speed, non-gnarly shit). For a 160mm travel bike, Range felt pretty comfortable on everything; jack of all trades, master of none. Not as uphill friendly as the Bronson, not as downhill friendly as the Mach 6, not as freight trainish as the Enduro 29, but it didn't suck anywhere.

Deft_funk sorry you missed out! Had a local guy buy it, and I got to keep my XO trail brakes! score. Anyways, I'm torn between the Bronson, Solo, and Yeti SB-75 at this point. The Bronson/Solo debate comes down to travel, since they will both end up weighing the same, why not have more travel, right? but at the same time, the general SLC area trails don't really require a big bike like that, but it would be nice for the Moab trips.

THIS:

http://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/...o/range-alloy/

It comes in carbon, too.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Mach 6 feels more like a mini dh bike that is out of its element on slower speed, non-gnarly shit.

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This is exactly what I'm looking for. My SB95 goes uphill just fine. Might have to see what I can do about that Mach 6. Bronson is definitely on the table now as well.

And robnow, I hadn't heard about the new Nomad, definitely tempting. Sounds awesome. Also looking into the new Genius LT.

You were gonna spend Intense money, so spend it on a Turner Burner. Still made in the USA, only without all those pesky frame mis-alignments.

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Originally Posted by 50degrees

Those who have sold their souls to "the man"....

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I sold my soul to "the man" and I STILL can't afford one of these bikes. It bums me out that a decent, non-crap-kit (Shimano LX or better, for example - I don't need or want XTR) trail/AM bike starts over $3K now, more like $5K for carbon. I understand that the technology is super advanced and the bikes are better, but still - if you want to spend $2K or less on something new, you're basically riding a Wal-Mart bike now. And for a lot of us, even $2K is a lot of money to spend on a toy (especially with all the other toys that need buying too - skis, guitars, Big Green Eggs...).

The only bike in this thread I've ridden is the Bronson C, and it was a beast (in a good way, mostly). Only issue was that it feels more oriented towards DH than XC, and I spend a lot of time on mostly XC trails with just a couple of rocky bits so it may be too much bike for me (and it sounds like the Mach 6 would be an even worse fit, since it's apparently even more oriented towards the DH side). But damn, the Bronson was fun to ride over the rock gardens I did hit and generally felt super-confident on the downhills. Sticker price was about $6500 - yikes.

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Originally Posted by bagtagley

You were gonna spend Intense money, so spend it on a Turner Burner. Still made in the USA, only without all those pesky frame mis-alignments.

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Sure thing, homer-boy ;) That thing is made of metal! WTF.

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Originally Posted by Pegleg

I sold my soul to "the man" and I STILL can't afford one of these bikes. It bums me out that a decent, non-crap-kit (Shimano LX or better, for example - I don't need or want XTR) trail/AM bike starts over $3K now, more like $5K for carbon. I understand that the technology is super advanced and the bikes are better, but still - if you want to spend $2K or less on something new, you're basically riding a Wal-Mart bike now. And for a lot of us, even $2K is a lot of money to spend on a toy (especially with all the other toys that need buying too - skis, guitars, Big Green Eggs...).

The only bike in this thread I've ridden is the Bronson C, and it was a beast (in a good way, mostly). Only issue was that it feels more oriented towards DH than XC, and I spend a lot of time on mostly XC trails with just a couple of rocky bits so it may be too much bike for me (and it sounds like the Mach 6 would be an even worse fit, since it's apparently even more oriented towards the DH side). But damn, the Bronson was fun to ride over the rock gardens I did hit and generally felt super-confident on the downhills. Sticker price was about $6500 - yikes.

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Shop around. I found a Pivot 429, Carbon XT build, end of the season Demo for $3350. Lots of places dumping end of the season 2013 stock or demos. Or wait for used.

Uh, a demo is a used bike.

FWIW I have a fair amount of time on the new WFO. Solid ride. Least 29er feeling 29er I've ever been on. It is actually playful (gasp!).

However, overall the WFO showed me just how silly this wheel size debate really is. Yeah, its marginally better and worse in certain places but overall it hasn't had me going "woh this is amazing" through chunky rock gardens the same way it hasn't had me going "woh this is awful" through tricky corners. That is both a good, and bad, thing.

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Originally Posted by JeffreyJim

FWIW I have a fair amount of time on the new WFO. Solid ride. Least 29er feeling 29er I've ever been on. It is actually playful (gasp!).

However, overall the WFO showed me just how silly this wheel size debate really is. Yeah, its marginally better and worse in certain places but overall it hasn't had me going "woh this is amazing" through chunky rock gardens the same way it hasn't had me going "woh this is awful" through tricky corners. That is both a good, and bad, thing.

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Yeah agreed completely. I'd put the WFO and Enduro 29 in the mix as well as they both fill the niche I'm looking for.

You already own one of the blingiest top 5 Enduro race bikes money can buy...w/29" wheels it rides basically like a 140-150mm 650b bike...you are not going to ride faster on those bikes and I question if you will even find them more fun. Your bike is pretty pimp and playful with the Enve's.

I'd think you should get more travel or you are just ending up with two massively overlapped rides which I bet you end up whittling back down to one in 8 months. 170mm 650b was fun in the Genius LT...If racing was my goal that bike might win for it's combo of fun and speed after flipping the switch, but you are stuck with that Fox suspension :(

You know my vote toward the Enduro 29, which would feel super comfy trading from the SB95, but the Enduro 26 Evo might be the fun ticket you are really looking for...they can be light, and strong enough for Rampage as was proven last weekend.

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Originally Posted by Particle

Yeah agreed completely. I'd put the WFO and Enduro 29 in the mix as well as they both fill the niche I'm looking for.

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I've been on the Enduro 29er for about a month now and it's crazy fast. Loves to bulldoze the chunky stuff on the way down.

i vote for no 650b. 130 or whatever with the wagon wheels is pretty money for all of utah. for more vert shredding (if you must), get a pedal/thrash-able 26 inch metal bike with 160-180.

now that i think of it, that sounds like a sweet quiver. mmm, enduro evoo...

Test rode a Mach 6. O. M. G. It's like a mini-DH bike that shreds climbs too. Sold.

P.S. Who wants to buy my 2010 Sam Hill limited edition Demo 8? (Schladming champ)