network setup - router/mesh for gigabyte fios

Just had fios gigabyte installed. the issue is it is setup through ethernet and house is not really wired.
right now the router was installed in the garage. which is fine for most of our stuff except my gaming PC is in our office which is on the second floor.

Since we had some dead spots in our wifi coverage i was thinking of setting up a mesh router system. I was between the google system and the eero. there is an amazon deal for the eero and google

eero + 2 beacons is 200

3 pack google is 220.

the issue is the ethernet wiring. i can "easily" do some wiring to get from garage to the pc but it will take some time.

though gwifi has ethernut access that would allow for me to just plug that in to the pc for now until i get to wiring. eero does not so would require wires to office

i currently have my old plan still so not immediate rush but hassle is hassle.

thoughts?

Just out of curiosity - why are you considering *any* ethernet? Just go full wireless for all devices. Unless I'm missing something.

gaming pc wants the fast

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Originally Posted by crackboy

gaming pc wants the fast

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I mean... I hear ya. But does it *need* ethernet-fast? Check into PCI-based wireless cards. They're getting pretty damned fast.

I have the google. One unit. 1700sf 2 story. My TV / Nintendo Switch setup is upstairs opposite side of house than the Wifi router. No issues, with streaming, gaming, and multiple devices at once.

With the google you could place one unit at your wired connection -> Ethernet to other unit at gaming setup -> Ethernet to gaming setup. Then just place the other unit wherever makes sense.


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Originally Posted by crackboy

gaming pc wants the fast

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If this is your need, hardwired is the only true answer. Your ping will thank you.

I've typically landed the modem/router in the room with the PC, and wifi is the secondary consideration. If you can't do that, you will want a higher end wifi router that can prioritize traffic to the PC.

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Originally Posted by DJSapp

If this is your need, hardwired is the only true answer. Your ping will thank you.

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Just out of curiosity - why? I'm asking because I've got 3 teenage boys on 3 different devices (2 "gaming" PC's, and an XBox) that are generally simultaneously being used to play some dumb online game, and I've not gotten much complaining.

Maybe they don't know how it could be? :D

For the record - we have a "shitty" slow innertoobz connection (70Mbps).

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Just out of curiosity - why?

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"Gaming PC" is a euphemism for "download massive amounts of porn."

"gaming" is nothing to do with bandwidth at all,
wifi, both 2.5ghz and 5ghz, adds a huge amount of latency, jitter and packet loss to your connection. enough that even noobs like me can notice it.
worst still, someone loads up stranger things on a wifi tv running netflix and itll preload the entire series at 4k, even tho the tv is only 1080p. it probably won't use all available wifi bandwidth on modern wifi setups, theyve got heaps of bandwidth available, but heavy use will cause even more packet loss and random lag spikes and weird delays than if you're using it solo. using repeaters/chaining wifi has the same effect, only compounded.
scrolling through instatindermyface and pay to win 30fps tetris tbagging on your overpriced glass robotfruit isnt gaming.

professionally speaking; for me, working on a wifi connection is frustrating also. typing away on black and white ssh terminal windows all day, frequently whatever you're typing/reading is delayed and has to catch up.

subtle improvements is one of those things us squishy beat bags aren't good at measuring, but we're great at noticing when shit gets worse. so the best way to test is to get accustomed to using ethernet (like 2-3 weeks worth) then switch back to wifi, suddenly you notice how good it can be and what you're missing out on.

i pull cables through in single storey houses no problems. multi story is like voodoo black magic to me, its more an art than a science. and for the effort it takes, its often cheaper than you expect to get someone in to do it. adds value to a house anyway if you need to argue it with the "boss".

if you want to go cheap, perhaps experiment with ethernet over power devices (not to be confused with power over ethernet), your house is most likely single phase. its a semi decent stop gap measure.

i don't understand op's comment about being on an old plan. are you using mobile internet or something?

Ive run cat 5 LAN cable from main router to a 2nd router on the other side of the house to work as a hard wired range extender/switch/hub. 2nd router wifi even has it's own network name totally different than the mother ship router which is connected to the modem. Kitchen appliances (fridges, freezers, and microwaves) cause dead spots. Need something on both sides of the kitchen to get good wifi on both sides of the kitchen or 3 sides of the kitchen if need upstairs/downstairs.

I’ve been thinking about doing this or running LAN Cat 5/6 directly to 2 TVs with Apple TV. I’m a JONG with wiring so does this make sense?


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I can explain the intended set up better if need be.


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Originally Posted by anything

i don't understand op's comment about being on an old plan. are you using mobile internet or something?

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old plan as in we switched providers but i didn't cancel my old one yet.

Pulled the trigger on some eero pro stuff

2 pros and 1 beacon. ended up slightly more than the google, far cheaper than orbi for more or less the same amounts of connections.
one pro in basement by ONT box, one upstairs and the beacon on the first floor opposite side of the house.

will eventually run cat5e to the upstairs but this gets me going for now

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Just out of curiosity - why? I'm asking because I've got 3 teenage boys on 3 different devices (2 "gaming" PC's, and an XBox) that are generally simultaneously being used to play some dumb online game, and I've not gotten much complaining.

Maybe they don't know how it could be? :D

For the record - we have a "shitty" slow innertoobz connection (70Mbps).

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For purposes of this discussion:
'Large' = maximum bandwidth - _XXX_ Mbps - the fastest you can stream a single download
'Fast' = Ping (aka latency) - _xxx_ milliseconds (no ISP will talk about this as it can vary wildly)

In more basic terms than what Anything wrote: gaming relies on the fastest connection to send small amounts of data to the game server. Gaming doesn't actually take large data transfers of GB's, it needs FAST transfers of tiny packets. 70Mbps is plenty large. The more switches, processes and physical distance between your device and the game server, the slower performance will be. Game servers have processes to handle this latency, but some games handle it better than others.

Wifi is a complex process that adds time. Most wifi routers don't have beefy enough processors to handle multiple streams quickly enough without being noticeable in gaming. So as anything mentioned, you can go from gaming just fine to the shits once someone fires up Netflix because the router CPU slows down. More bandwidth from the ISP isn't necessarily the answer either, most of the time the wifi router is the weak link, especially the POS that your internet company rents out. There are more expensive gaming routers with better processors and firmware that can handle multiple devices and prioritize whatever you want it to. The difference is quite noticeable.

Hardwire is a much simpler process that doesn't eat the CPU of a basic wifi router, and doesn't require a $200 router.

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Originally Posted by DJSapp

For purposes of this discussion:
'Large' = maximum bandwidth - _XXX_ Mbps - the fastest you can stream a single download
'Fast' = Ping (aka latency) - _xxx_ milliseconds (no ISP will talk about this as it can vary wildly)

In more basic terms than what Anything wrote: gaming relies on the fastest connection to send small amounts of data to the game server. Gaming doesn't actually take large data transfers of GB's, it needs FAST transfers of tiny packets. 70Mbps is plenty large. The more switches, processes and physical distance between your device and the game server, the slower performance will be. Game servers have processes to handle this latency, but some games handle it better than others.

Wifi is a complex process that adds time. Most wifi routers don't have beefy enough processors to handle multiple streams quickly enough without being noticeable in gaming. So as anything mentioned, you can go from gaming just fine to the shits once someone fires up Netflix because the router CPU slows down. More bandwidth from the ISP isn't necessarily the answer either, most of the time the wifi router is the weak link, especially the POS that your internet company rents out. There are more expensive gaming routers with better processors and firmware that can handle multiple devices and prioritize whatever you want it to. The difference is quite noticeable.

Hardwire is a much simpler process that doesn't eat the CPU of a basic wifi router, and doesn't require a $200 router.

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Thanks for the detail. Sounds like I shouldn't let the kids know that things could be better with a cable. They shall remain blissfully ignorant. :D

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Thanks for the detail. Sounds like I shouldn't let the kids know that things could be better with a cable. They shall remain blissfully ignorant. :D

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unless you're playing against them. thats when you bust out the big guns ;P

The TLDR; version is:
Wired will always be faster/more-reliable with less latency than wireless. [That doesn't mean that wireless can't be reliable, it can. But there are a myriad of ways wireless can get whacked, and you won't have the same problems with wired connections. Wired problems are generally much easier to diagnose and fix, etc. etc. etc. Wired is "better" generally - but more effort to put in place.]

-- Longer version ---
I've not compared a lot of wireless devices, but IMO, it's _really_ hard to beat Ubiquiti Unifi devices. [AC-Lite is one of the best for the money, IMO.] It's generally far better than any "consumer" grade equipment. [DLink, Linksys, etc.] And while I'm not completely thrilled with UBNT's approach toward security, they are *wildly* better than the same consumer-grade junk. (See DLink's repeated FTC penalties for insecure stuff - or simply watch the FullDisclosure mailing list. That should make you fear consumer-grade trash.)

While it would cost more, the way I'd do any of the above setups is this:
Wire any PC/devices which will be doing stuff that requires lots of low latency bandwidth. Cat5e is good enough. Cat6 is perhaps better. [If you can, preserve the access routes with pull-string, so 30 years from now, you can pull in whatever comes next. Conduit would be better, if it's new construction.] Running on the exterior isn't a bad idea - sometimes it's a lot easier. Use indoor/outdoor cable though - the jacket is UV stabilized.

If you know a 40-60 year old electrician, see if you can trade for beer [just just cold cash] and have them help you run cable through walls etc. Those guys usually know their stuff, and will find seriously ingenious ways to get wiring through places where you'd have ripped down the whole wall with your sawzall. They'll do it with a tiny cut in the sheet-rock in just the right place to get past that cross-blocking, etc.

For less intense bandwidth/latency needs, put in wireless unit(s). Unifi AC-Lite is a good choice, and fairly cheap.
5Ghz spectrum will give more bandwidth, but will propagate less well. 5ghz spectrum is usually less congested too.
2.4 will carry further, in general.

Don't use repeaters if you can avoid it. I'd generally say *NEVER* use repeaters, but there are probably a few corner-cases where it's appropriate - I've just never seen one. Run a wire to the a second location in the house and put in a second Unifi unit. [These are configured and work together well. Far superior, IMO, to individual stand-alone units.

And were it me, I'd be using a dedicated non-consumer router. PFSense or EdgeRouter. [Or if you like abuse, you can go Mikrotik.]

Those things will give you a "modular" system where you can tinker/upgrade one piece without destroying the rest. Need to replace the router/firewall? Sure, you don't have to also screw with the wireless system.

Yeah, I work in the tech space, but most of that is something the a-bit-above-average tech-savvy consumer can do. And there are lots of people willing to help if you get stuck somewhere.

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Originally Posted by gregorys

<snip>Wire any PC/devices which will be doing stuff that requires lots of low latency bandwidth.

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I think I can agree with your post.

Just would add that people should be *realistic* about that "requires" word.

In my house, I've concluded that we have NO devices which "require" lots of low latency bandwidth. And I'm lazy. And the kids on their gaming PC's can fuck right off with their "low latency" bullshit. :D

Never done any gaming, but had some wireline/powerline equipment in the past. Never checked ping times through those units, but it might be an option. Looks like it is supporting up to 2gbps these days.

https://www.tp-link.com/us/home-netw...l-wpa9610-kit/

I'm on tplink's mesh at home and it works well... Again, not for gaming.

Seth

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Netgear has mesh access points that can connect to any router, like the ex8000.

Also, if you have any concern regarding your own privacy, do not use the Google hardware at all.

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Originally Posted by johnnyg82

Also, if you have any concern regarding your own privacy, do not use the Google hardware at all.

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If you have any concern regarding your own network security, do not use the Netgear hardware at all. :)
In case you're in doubt - this should explain things a bit: https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey...eyword=netgear

[I'm mostly giving you a hard time, but I am serious about not using Netgear, or most any other consumer grade router or network-hardware.]

I’ve got dd wrt and a vpn setup on that at home.

Google WiFi and run Ethernet wherever you can 100%

I ran a unifi lite off a unifi router and the damn wap quickly melted. Apparently overheating is a common issue. It was warrantied immediately but I’m a little apprehensive to put the new one in.