Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

But hey, I'm just a contractor and not the designer..get it.

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I knew that. Just making conversation.

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Originally Posted by hutash

Speaking of design ideas, I highly recommend not doing a breakfast bar like the above picture.

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Totally agree...went from a breaky bar to all the same height...much better.

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Originally Posted by old goat

The designer will think of a lot of things you won't, will know about options, materials, etc you've never heard of.

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Good point. I used to have a friend who was a professional designer. She had entire walls of catalogs full of materials I've never seen before, would have never thought of otherwise, and certainly are not available through your local retailers. If you want to get really specific with what you're doing and not just have the cookie-cutter, sub-par quality crap everybody else has, then a designer can be worth the money. What shocked me was how cheap they can get a lot of those materials for you, which could help offset some of the costs of using a designer in the first place. Just don't let them push their own tastes on you, which designers are notorious for doing. Make sure they're just helping assist you in doing what YOU want.

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Originally Posted by DBdude

I can't imagine that it is cheaper to remodel than to sell and buy something you like - it just doesn't make sense

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In some areas that is certainly true. For example, if you lived in Dayton, Ohio, it would be a complete waste of money to do a major remodel. Just sell your home for 50k and go buy your already pimped out McMansion for 200k.

However if you live in a place where homes are expensive, remodeling is the obvious choice. Let's say you bought your home for 500k back in the day, but a similar home remodeled or built to the way you want it costs 1M, then dropping a couple hundred into it is the obvious choice. Especially since selling your outdated, 1973 time capsule will only get bottom dollar. Now, remodeling and trading into that 1M dollar house is certainly an option, but only after you make yours comparable first.

It would help to see what was there before in each of Foggy's pics. Did it involve moving walls and completely reshaping the rooms? Or did the remodel keep the original layout and just update the finishes/appliances? Are we including the cost of the floor (which obviously goes beyond the kitchen)?

My $.02 on the design: I dislike that the floor, walls and cabinets are all different but similar colors of wood, and I agree that the counter and backsplash clash pretty badly. This does seem like a case where the homeowners picked out each element in isolation (since they're all fine on their own) and didn't consider how they'd all work together. When I was remodeling my living room, we really wanted to go with some of the really cool interesting woods for the floor, but eventually realized that if the room looked completely different from the rest of the house it would be weird. In hindsight, our choice (matching the rest of the floors as closely as possible) was boring but works the best for the overall appearance.

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Originally Posted by hutash

Speaking of design ideas, I highly recommend not doing a breakfast bar like the above picture. We planned on that, but our GC suggested otherwise (we started with a designer, but it was not a good experience.) We went with his suggestion and made the whole counter the same level, making the peninsula a great work space. My kids did home work at it, my wife sews and bakes on it, and I use it for cooking/food prep. It is the single best thing about our kitchen, which is now going on 12years ago?

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I also agree 100%. Our last house had just a giant single slab of granite. Makes for MUCH more usable space. Our new house has the bar. When we remodel, we are definitely going back to the single level counter. It will make for a hudge counter top, as opposed to the way it currently is, which is a pretty big bar, but barely any space around the kitchen sink. The split-level counter tops are actually a very inefficient use of space.

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

The only reason i poke you about this is because the audience of folks (TGR) who really have no idea what architects, interior designers & decorators do.
And you are presenting a pretty limited perspective...
(and pimping your wife's business while you're at it...coincidence?)

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Heh - of course I am! Someone's gotta support the lifestyle I deserve!

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I mean, fuck...in almost all states, you only need a structural engineer's stamp to permit new construction or additions; and the homeowner can own all the design decisions. No need for any design input whatsoever. [PE's, no intended offense on structural design]

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Well someone has to draw them. My wife does a whole bunch of structural shit, mainly additions but also raising roofs and (re)moving load bearing walls. She does the drawings then takes them to get stamped. The SE trusts her to the point that he barely looks at the work. 20 years in the biz gets you that tho, along with many acronyms after her name.

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Architects routinely provide services during construction
They do kitchen and bath remodels
They do interiors

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That would depend on the remodels and interiors, no? ;)

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Originally Posted by brice618

Tipp is right here. Small residential remodels are really tough to make money on as an architect. It's likely they've already over'd the budgeted timeline for a job in just meeting with the bat shit wife who hasn't realized that her 100 grand doesn't mean shit to someone who could also have 10's of millions of dollars worth of work on the boards or in the field. The result is this - good architects, who do deliver good drawings and administer a job well, are entirely too busy to put up with you or your wife's bullshit. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.

So in my opinion, having worked both as a contractor and now an architect, leave the architect out of it on a finishes only or minor space changes.

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See - I don't always talk out of my ass. :D

Yeah, re-reading what you said you're doing, I take back my previous comments regarding an architect - probably not needed.

It's so difficult to estimate expense because of materials. Nice porcelain tile is going to cost a lot more than most ceramic tiles, for example. +1 to what everyone said about custom cabinets - about the same cost and much nicer.

I think the key, as mentioned previously, is to nail down what you want. Changes can be very expensive.

Nice call on "while you're at it" - I laughed, so true.

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Originally Posted by H0G

It depends on your scope of work & the price point of your home. Since you are in the Republic, maybe $400k-$500k priced home, you could probably be under $20k for the kitchen, if you shopped around, & $5k-$10k for the baths. It really depends on if you are moving plumbing/electrical etc.

Exterior house paint can be all over the map. You can have a crew come and spray it, or a better crew scrape, caulk, etc. Assuming you have heat, then to add AC shouldn't be too bad (sub $5k).

Make a list of everything you want done and come back to us. If you need some local subcontractor's info, I can help. It isn't that hard to GC it, but you have to know what to look for & have the time to do it. Also, put the people under contract & require insurance, etc. I have a blank one I can send if you want.

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Thanks for the info. We don't intend to move much/any plumbing electrical. I mean, an outlet may need to get moved or a showerhead may need a slightly different placement (guessing), but overall our intent is to keep the existing bones/layout of our bathrooms and kitchen, And we do have forced air heat so there is already ductwork in place.

No way I try to GC this, even if I had the time (I don't). I know my limitations and I need someone with skills, experience, and contacts.

As for a list of things to have done, it obviously depends on cost. Some items are on the wish list but may get scratched.

• Bathrooms need complete remodel, so new vanity, toilet, tub/shower, etc. But how high quality we go depends on cost.
• Kitchen at a minimum needs new cabinets, counters, sink, lighting, and while the flooring is fine (tile), we'll need new flooring after this is all done. Wish list includes knocking down the wall between the kitchen and living room making one giant open floor plan. Wish list also includes taking out the door to the back yard and putting in french doors.
• Central AC
• Exterior Paint (some siding needs repair)
• Sprinkler system (not expecting the GC to handle this)
• Convert garage back into a garage (it was ghetto/un-permitted converted to a guest bedroom sometime before I bought the house)
• Add a wall making second living room into a bedroom

I live in Tabernash, USA but do travel fairly frequently for work. I charge white guy mountain wages and I don't know how that compared to Boulder.

"not the designer" comment not directed at anyone only meant to highlight the fact that ultimately the homeowner is the only one that needs to love the design.

Bar top/ single height counter. Pluses and minuses, some people like the big work area others like the definition between the kitchen and living space. You dentists wouldn't care for chicken juice and flour all over your rolex and i-phone you just put on the counter.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

^^^
I don't disagree. But hey, I'm just a contractor and not the designer..get it. In all reality, this is a great example of some people need a design professional, some don't. Homeowners picked the counter and the splash and they love the product and the installation. As I tell my customers, I'll give you my opinion on design, but it is your house. I'll guide you and let you know if something is stupid, but ultimately the design a budget of finish materials is on you.

Danno, I wouldn't accept a job as a project manager in Boulder because I don't have the contacts or relationships with the subs and material providers. That is probably 50% of the job and how a good PM can make there services pay for themselves. How, if you end up needing a trim carpenter, tile setter and/or flooring installer, let me know.

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Thanks for the info, and I'm certainly hoping that the GC we hire does give us that kind of advice. It IS our house and we know that we'll make the final decision, but I do want someone to tell me when something is stupid or when a different design may be a better choice.

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Originally Posted by iceman

I learned that you won't win, no matter how much taste you may have and how practical your ideas may be and how much sense you may make. So don't even think about it. You're in charge of the bones, she's picking the paint and hanging the curtains.

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When I was even dumber, I tried to finish off a bathroom remodel while my wife was out of town. I picked a color and painted the damn thing as the final touch. She came home and said the color looked "bathroomy." Apparently this was a bad thing.

So she picked a color that looked exactly like the one I picked and I repainted it.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Thanks for the info. We don't intend to move much/any plumbing electrical. I mean, an outlet may need to get moved or a showerhead may need a slightly different placement (guessing), but overall our intent is to keep the existing bones/layout of our bathrooms and kitchen, And we do have forced air heat so there is already ductwork in place.

No way I try to GC this, even if I had the time (I don't). I know my limitations and I need someone with skills, experience, and contacts.

As for a list of things to have done, it obviously depends on cost. Some items are on the wish list but may get scratched.

• Bathrooms need complete remodel, so new vanity, toilet, tub/shower, etc. But how high quality we go depends on cost.
• Kitchen at a minimum needs new cabinets, counters, sink, lighting, and while the flooring is fine (tile), we'll need new flooring after this is all done. Wish list includes knocking down the wall between the kitchen and living room making one giant open floor plan. Wish list also includes taking out the door to the back yard and putting in french doors.
• Central AC
• Exterior Paint (some siding needs repair)
• Sprinkler system (not expecting the GC to handle this)
• Convert garage back into a garage (it was ghetto/un-permitted converted to a guest bedroom sometime before I bought the house)
• Add a wall making second living room into a bedroom

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Nothing on your list sounds all that complicated to the point of needing a to hire a GC, or an architect, if little to no electrical/plumbing/structural work is planned.

Prioritize the wish list in terms of what you'd like done first, kitchen, bath, etc and be realistic about how much you are willing and able to spend to make upgrades.
Do you love your current home, current location? Time frame to envision staying at current location? All play into the move vs. remodel aspect.
Work with Mrs. Danno on what she envisions the remodeled space to look like. Stay away from fashion trends and focus on what YOU like. Especially if you plan on staying for any length of time 6-10+ yrs then remodeling with resale in mind vs. what makes you happy is not so important.
If you both are incapable of making decisions then seek outside help from a designer.

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Nothing on your list sounds all that complicated to the point of needing a to hire a GC, or an architect, if little to no electrical/plumbing/structural work is planned.

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Que?

"Wish list includes knocking down the wall between the kitchen and living room making one giant open floor plan."

Danno: "That wall's ok to take down?"
Mexican Hammer Monkey: "Jes, I take wall down."
Danno: "No, I asked if it was ok to take down."
MHM: "Jes, Mr. Danno, I take wall down. Rodrigo, 'obtener martillo toma de pared hacia abajo'"

https://rookieswithsledgehammers.fil...9/collapse.jpg

If you hire someone who does remodels for a living and is bonded and insured, and cannot identify a load bearing wall, then you get what you pay for.

^^ That was pretty funny.

http://youtu.be/xCc-RWIp7XU

Sounds like the scope is substantial enough that you should get it drawn up and at least some design consultation. You will need to communicate with several entities and most will need a plan to help with their portion of the process, provide better numbers and provide other ideas and alternatives.

From memory, the cost of that kitchen is as follow:

Deconstruction 500
Frame/DW 750
Plumbing-rough/trim/fixtures 1000
Sparky-rough/trim/fixtures 1500
Cabs/Crown 10000
Appliances (no refer) 1500
Backsplash 1000
Granite 2500
My labor 3000

Total $21,750

That might be high or low, didn't check my invoices. Point is, $20K don't get you the worlds best kitchen. You start going level 3 granite, leathered finish, sub zero, $20/sq. glass mossaic shit gets out of hand quick.

So Danno, get the graph paper out. Draw up the kitchen with the wall removed and the appliances where you want them. Make your preliminary decisions from most expensive and permanent and expensive backwards. This means your cabinets and counter top will drive all your other choices. Go to some stone warehouses (Arizona, DalTile, Stone Collection etc.). Get me a graph paper drawing of the kitchen and some stone choices and I'll get my granite guy to estimate. Make an appointment with a designer at a cabinet shop (home depot or lowes will do at this point although I think there cabinets and design services suck). Get to the point where you can figure out what you like and ball park the price of the kitchen materials. If you ain't willing to do this, you need a designer or a design/build contractor. You will pay a shit ton in pre-construction if you have no vision.

Start looking into permitting. Did you know that the EPA requires environmental tests if more than 32sq. ft. of floor or wall are disturbed. The fines for contractors are stupid.

Oh...could you guys give me the names of the custom cabinet shops that compete price wise with semi-custom production cabinets? I could give those shops a ton of business.
Total

Pimpest double wide in Boulder? You should call Chouinard and hire a Patagucci designer.

Tenkara faucet fixtures.

My advice: don't do granite countertops or tile floors. Both suck ass.

P.S. I did an undermount sink in my reclaimed wood countertops solely because Foggy called me a pussy.

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

In my defense, the cabinets looked like Brazilian Rosewood.

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so post the address and you can rip them out and sell to guitar builders.

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Originally Posted by RootSkier

My advice: don't do granite countertops or tile floors. Both suck ass.

P.S. I did an undermount sink in my reclaimed wood countertops solely because Foggy called me a pussy.

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I absolutely love our granite "slab" counters and would do them again in a heart beat. Easiest counters to maintain and still look great 10+ years later.

As for estimating costs, it is tough. At the end of our job we picked out knobs and pulls, and I think it quickly added up to over a grand:eek: Those little fuckers add up fast.

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Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

so post the address and you can rip them out and sell to guitar builders.

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Dear Mr. Gibson,
Hi. I have something you might be interested in. Meet me down by the river, near the bend under the railroad bridge at 10 pm.
Code word "Foggy Goggles."

Yours truly,
Timber

Hugh, I think he said they were alder...not sure if that's gonna be the same.

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Originally Posted by RootSkier

My advice: don't do granite countertops or tile floors. Both suck ass.

P.S. I did an undermount sink in my reclaimed wood countertops solely because Foggy called me a pussy.

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I've been trying to change my terminology to "solid surface" and "natural stone" so basically I'm saying no laminate or tile counter tops. Some people don't like traditional gloss granite with movement, some love it. Go to a big stone yard, the variety is staggering. I just did some 6cm matt black granite with a chiseled edge. Looked pretty sweet. I'm generally not a tile in the kitchen guy but it's far from wrong or stupid.

p.s. I bet than undermount looks sweet and your proud of it

This was my original response that I forgot to send and timed out on.

I was pretty close:

I am guessing the tile work alone on that kitchen job was over $2k.
Granite another $3k
Cabinets already mentioned at $11.5K
Fixtures and electrical- $3k
Plumbing and Kohler, $2k
Appliances- $2k

Bathroom, under $10k, depending what was done.

How'd I do?

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Originally Posted by RootSkier

My advice: don't do granite countertops or tile floors. Both suck ass.

P.S. I did an undermount sink in my reclaimed wood countertops solely because Foggy called me a pussy.

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I would love to see pictures of that. How did you support the sink? Stainless?