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https://unofficialnetworks.com/2021/...y-tram-access/
Is this the beginning of the end for the mega pass battles?
Is big sky just trying to fill their pockets more, or are they trying to preserve the tram experience?
Will other resorts follow?
Is this good for us as the average skier or no?
# 1 thanks for making this a separate thread and not Thrunting up the MT thread.
A couple of thoughts
Total current Tram capacity is around 1200 passengers per day. When 2500 people on the mountain was considered busy that wasn't a big deal. Now a normal days is around 5000 and a LOT of them are MC/IKON passholders who came to ski the Tram. The line has gotten ridiculous.
Boyne could have just said fuckit and charged 10 bucks a ride at around $12K per day that would have added up to a nice chunk of change. Instead they developed this arcane system that is basically a money run for them and improving the experience "may" be a by product but I doubt it was the primary factor.
The people who have the cash will buy a Gold Pass and no skin off their ass. The rest will take their chances and buy whatever (the Blue pass is a bargain) and deal with a system where if they buy a pass this spring they really have no idea what the day cost for Tram Access will be. Right now the plan is, we will tell you in July.:the_finge
I have had a pass and skied Big Sky since 1991, I haven't skied there since 3/14 of this season after a frustrating day that left me wondering if I have it in me anymore to ski there, BB midweek is looking pretty good.
Big Sky has gotten too crowded and there are a lot of blind intersections that are dangerous as hell. They are installing a new lift out of the base area that will be more reliable (one the kinks are worked out) but which adds very little additional uphill capacity. Meanwhile if you ride any of the other main lifts you need to use that base area lift to reach them unless you are willing to ride Explorer to Challenger. The Main lift on the Moonlight side is at capacity and hell will freeze solid before Boyne will invest in that side of the mountain.
This has been extensively covered in the IKON thread and the title is misleading--they aren't "nixing" access, they're charging for it.
+1 On the crowding at Thin Sky, particularly the base areas. Only a few seasons ago tram lines on a sunny day would be 30-45 minutes and then there was the step change of MC/ICON and 75- 90 minute tram lines became the norm. The irony is that $80K of the resort tax is used to promote BS so the lift lines can get longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
One of the lessons from the COVID season for BS has been improved yield. Supposedly the number of visitors was down (hard to believe from the lift lines and parking lots), but by managing day ticket availability the resort likely substantially improved yield by forcing visitors to use resort accommodation bookings to ensure lift tickets would be available. It will be interesting to see what additional revenue streams can be developed beyond an up charge for tram access and the "early bird" hour to access Andesite like paid parking and "express lane" access to by pass the lift corrals.
While riding the Ram Charger one day a passenger at the other end of the couch says "I love this lift it is so much faster than the old chair." I pointed out that the haul rope speed is the same as the old lift and there are half as many chairs. He was quick to respond with "but each chair can carry eight people" and didn't want to hear the up hill capacity was about the same.
Leftyt and his group (maybe 40 people in a loose knit gang that visit Big Sky at the same time) are not planning to take anymore trips there due to the tram access charge. Just anecdotal but I found it interesting.
AwesomeQuote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
blockin their wifi acess would probably hurt mur and
it aint like theres decent huts accessed off the stupid beer can
and i wont be back
well unless the plaid clad ex mayor hooks us up again
:yourock:
FYI employees and their families will have to pay the tram up-charge, or so I was told.
Ew, that’s a bullshit move.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
I couldn't get over the fact they were letting patrol ski up and hop on by themselves. As in 1 patroller as in 1 person per tram .After waiting an hour and watching that happen twice I decided big sky was a bunch of overhyped billshit.
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I can see how that would grate on you.
To answer the OPs question:There are no longer what you refer to as average skiers. And no, I fear this is the start of "well if you can afford it, sure its available for a minor additional fee, swipe your card right here".Quote:
Is this good for us as the average skier or no?
According to skiresort.info you are correct about line speed. However, uphill capacity increased from 1800 to 3200. So yes fewer chairs but not by half. At least not at built capacity. Whether they use all of them on a particular day I cannot say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Talisman
That's the beauty of the RFID card, no need to swipe, just go through the gate - cha ching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
That was a bummer this year, even though the reasons for it are obvious, but once they all got vaxxed they went back to riding with guests. They also started filling up the tram cars with more people and relaxing the capacity restrictions. The last few weeks of the season the line was much quicker IMO, and that was nice. Just one of those covid things we had to deal with this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirVicSmasher
Big Sky is crowded now? Couldn't be more than BB.
Jackson hole needs to do this.
Tram lines have been retarded even before Covid.
https://bigskyresort.com/tram-access-faq
I’m not sure about that pricing. Big sky wants $20 to $80 a day for tram access. And if it blows down after one run there’s no refunds. Ouch.
No way to buy a day pass that includes the tram?
Missed opportunity.
Then you'll just have "retarded" gondola lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
The Gondi used to suck up a ton of people before CovidQuote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
And there’s always AV and Teton lift.
But the tram should be for tram addicts. And for sidecountry adventures.
PS. Look up the definition of retarded you “ retard”. It means slow
Be curious to see how they will manage the demand of the Scenic crowd.
Faced with an upcharge, I'm guessing a lot of those scenic riders will opt out.
One possibility would be to let scenics ride for free for 30 minutes after the tram closes to skiers. That might go a long way toward smoothing any ruffled feathers among that crowd. And I predict there will be a LOT of ruffled feathers next year as a result of this change. Think Bridger Schlashman's guy freaking out X1000.
Attachment 371955Quote:
And I predict there will be a LOT of ruffled feathers next year as a result of this change
One could only hope it gets rid of the scenics. They're half the line! I haven't been on that tram many times in my life because of that damn line.
Dude. Not even close. MAYBE 1/50th are scenic riders.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn
I have a hard time comprehending the oft-expressed line aversion. What is the fucking rush to ski the same old lower mountain stuff for the zillionth time? I mean maybe on a powder day, but on a regular old ski day? People would rather lap those lower lifts that than ski the amazing high alpine terrain on Lone Peak? I just don't get it man. Must be something wrong with me. :tongue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
While my gut agrees with IAS, I can't realistically see unlimited tram rides for employees & dependents being a thing with most passholders getting an upcharge for the same privilege and demand still exceeding capacity (which I'm guessing it will).Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
I'd hope they could find some way of allowing a certain amount of off-peak-time access—it would really sting to be there all year in a low-wage job and not be able to justify the cash to ride to the top at least a few times—but allowing unlimited access seems like it would adversely affect the guest experience. Employee and dependents are already (hopefully) used to avoiding busy times at F&B outlets, this seems to fall into a similar category (although, again, I'd really hope they end up allowing some level of access without an actual upcharge).
While I appreciate your old goat opinion, this is bigger than IKON, and the MT thread, and thus deserves its own thread because as bunion has succinctly expressed below:Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
And no, I fear this is the start of "well if you can afford it, sure its available for a minor additional fee, swipe your card right here". -Bunion 2020
Here comes the resort "add-ons". Fuck this noise.
I just hate standing in a line when it could be spent doing almost anything else and I'm not sure I've been to any resort where regularly waiting in a uniquely long line felt worth it, unless checking something out in particular or after completely exhausting other areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
It's not that I'm in a rush to go ski the lower stuff. I'm in a rush to get away from any substantial line, which to me is the worst part of skiing.
That’ll drop BS off the top of my list. BS is just OK without the tram.
Bet they dont like the numbers for lodging and such next year
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Oh, they'll do just fine.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp
BS, living up to its name.
We won't be going anymore.
I wonder if they'll ever do Ride for Jake again and if that will include the tram (and its line). lol
I don't see it helping the tram line much, the gold pass boomer tram rats will still be there and the ikon crowd will be like fuck it, basically skiing for free spent all the money to get here, what is another $80 bucks for a tram lap...
Personally, I find it a bummer, but also the crowds of the last few years and change in vibe are too. I often like to end the day with a tram ride, so won't do that if it cost $80 for 1 ride at 255pm. If it is skiing well and short line, I do love a day of tram laps. Last Monday I got 6, including 3 NSSF.
I also think a tram upgrade is a bad idea, just don't see how it snows enough for more traffic off the top. Quality over quantity, make everyone hike for it would be my vote. Scenic and patrol only on the tram or maybe 1 ride per day per person. But I'm not a good capitalist.
Agree it's not worth skiing there without the tram terrain. Headwaters is fun but you gotta hike for it and IMO it doesn't have the same variety of the terrain on the peak. I know some would vehemently disagree with me on that, but whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick
You may be right about the lodging and visitor numbers, only time will tell. I mean on the one hand, that's the point of this--to limit the numbers of skiers yet extract more money from the ones that do come. But if they go too far with it, and the blowback is too severe, then they could be shooting themselves in the foot. We may see them backtrack on themselves again like they did last year after their initial pass offerings. Early season pass sale ends 4/30, I'm guessing they're taking a hard look at the early numbers already. I mean who would seriously consider buying a pass and being denied tram access? Very few people, I think. It's kind of an insult, really, like you're being played for a sucker. The people who ride the tram every day will get the gold pass, of course, but really, that's a pretty small percentage of people. I practically could recognize every one of those people in the line, and it's just not that many. At least that's how it seems to me. I dunno. It took balls for them to attempt something like this, I'll give them that. And whoever said this is the beginning of ski area add-ons, like with the airlines, that could very well be true if it succeeds. Which will only happen if the people let it. Not people like me who will buy a gold pass regardless, but the people who come for a week and spend a lot of dough. There is going to be a severe decline in the amount of Ikon visitors, I would think. Most are going to look at this upcharge and just let it be the deciding factor in planning a trip elsewhere.
I think it's an interesting play and curious to see how it works out. Havent been down to the big dump in awhile esp after losing cheap frequency cards and employees hook ups. The thought of gapers paying 80 bucks to side slip liberty does make me chuckle.
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What was Big Sky like before Ikon? Was lodging regularly full?
As a passholder, it would be really hard for me to consider any resort where I felt like part of it was restricted, even if I might never actually use it. For instance, I only rode the tram at Jackson once or twice the entire week I was there but going without that option wide open would've been a lot harder to accept.
This really bums me out. I pulled the plug on my travel plans this season and had a couple in the works for next, BS was one of them, not anymore. Fuck that up charge for the tram, this is coming from an old BS tram rat.
This is why I am hoping that the rage and unrest here comes from within (the local passholders setting the place on fire...figuratively) This is a shit precedent to set, and I'm all for revolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp