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I'll admit it, I'm 33 and still have yet to invest in much of a portfolio aside from a retirement package I signed up for at a job I had for 9 months, but most of my life I've been of the mind set that I try to not buy things that will continue to hold value if not increase in value. So I'm curious, what is it that you guys blow your expendable income on justifying it by saying, "Well, at least I won't lose money on this"?
Rental property. Firearms. In most cases cars (ymmv).
If I had more money I'd be flipping cars and motorcycles too, although I'd focus on sweet spot affordable vehicles like my 01-06 Lexus LS 430's, Land Cruisers, 06-08 turbo Subarus, and things along those lines instead of your exotics, but I'm pretty decent at not losing any money on vehicles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer Drinker
Big fan of first maxing out 401k, leaving it the fuck alone, index to S&P 500. 529 plans after that. Gets $$ outside the US tax system. Granted, I always worked for the man.
gotta pretty good-sized chunk of cash now. Not fuck you money yet, but getting there.
Re-read that sentence. I know what you're getting at but it threw me for a loop at first glance - I seriously doubt you're looking to avoid investment vehicles that keep or gain value ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by guroo270
If you're looking outside the usual (what MT posted should be your baseline) then rental/vacation property and relatively liquid alternatives. Things like wine and baseball cards rarely pan out (although you can hold such items in an IRA - plenty of trust companies around to help) . WSJ did a piece on such things not too long ago if interested.
"Investing" in stuff is for suckers. While some things do go up in value, those are things nobody yet thinks are valuable. By the time a "collectible" becomes known for going up in value, it's already stopped going up in value. Just ask anyone who bought a pre CBS Stratocaster 10 years ago. OTOH the appreciation of my 64 Strat has been 200% per year, but I bought it used in 1969, when nobody was thinking about investing in guitars, including me. I just needed a guitar. My wife doubled her money on a 65 mustang she bought new, but I guarantee you the guy who bought it didn't. My uncle did pretty well buying and selling Lalique glass before it became a thing; once people starting cataloging every piece and values were well established he lost interest and sold his whole collection. So buy stuff you like and need; maybe some day you'll be surprised to find that something you own has become valuable, but probably not.
Cars are not an investment. Most material things we buy and justify the purchase by selling at or near the purchase price are not an investment. Don't use that word. If you continue down that road, you'll be that guy with grey hair living in a crappy rental, or your Moms house, driving a fifteen year old Porsche with a bad exhaust.
-Max out 401K at $24K/year
-$500/mo for kid's section 529 college fund (figure $250K to put her through college)
-Pay an extra $1000/mo on mortgage (guaranteed non-payment on 3.75% interest or an after tax return of 2.5% with no risk)
-Invest $1500/mo in a spread of mutual funds/ETFs
- $150/mo in section 125 plan for health care/dependent care
- $250-$500/mo for emergency fund or to accumulate cash in advance for large purchases
- no credit card debt - pay off every month
The above is pretty liquid.
Next step - take $100K, and buy some rental property I can rent out and create a cash flow that's not directly tied to stock markets.
If you're in a low tax rate, and have many years before you retire, a Roth IRA is a good idea
I've thought of flipping cars and stuff, but the above keeps me pretty busy.
Just invest in new skis and travel. You might not see a monetary return, but the experiential gains are off the charts.
Of course you should probably do this after setting up what 54-46 said.
^This is what I do. In my opinion, you don't need to "beat the market." Just bet on capitalism with index funds.Quote:
Originally Posted by MARSHALL TUCKER
Because....
^This. You need inside information, or you need to be lucky. Everything else is already adjusted to its value.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Curious on the rental property front. Are we talking long-term rental near/in a city/job center or vacation stuff?Quote:
Originally Posted by 54-46
Of course, you need an extra $65k/year after all normal expenses to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ULLRismyco-pilot
collecting stuff may or may not pay off I never collected anything, not sure if collecting really pays off compared to investing in something you can't see or RE that you can see
Its not really rocket biology just spend less $$$ than you make, diversify & hang on
I have made a lot of money for not alot of effort from the basement suite
Or 18.5, or whatever the max this year is, if you aren't as old as 54-46. There's a $5500 or so catch up additional allowed if you are 50+.Quote:
Originally Posted by 54-46
I'd add that if you have a high deductible health plan, with an HSA, I think maxing out the HSA is even more advantageous than that same money in an IRA or 401k. Not taxed going in, can invest while in the HSA, not taxed coming out (if used on qualified medical expenses, but after age 65 (I think) it can be withdrawn like from any IRA. IIRC, HSA contributions are $6550 max for a couple for 2016.
But if you can't max out all your tax advantaged options, start with 401k and contribute up to the matching max, at the very least. It's free money from your employer.
Buying cars or guitars or wine or whatever tangible items are unlikely to generate returns.
For cash flow, I'd be looking at something more local and having stable LT renters. There are some tax advantages as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Dunfee
I've thought of the vacation market but that seems riskier to me.
Rudy Kurniawan did alright. Kinda jk since he's in jail, but if you don't know the story I highly recommend watching Sour Grapes on Netflix. Super fascinating story and very telling about who this country cares about protecting.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chupacabra
I made 45k selling a 911. Explain that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Air B&B is creating a real sea change in vacation markets, worldwide. But, requires constant management, so, very close by.
Give me the numbers, and, be truthful. Taxes, insurance, parts, labor, and garage costs. Garages cost money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer Drinker
This:And this:Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
If you have the requisite skills, some tools can yield multiple returns on investment, e.g. with the right skills a $1000 table saw can save you thousands over the long run if you make your own stuff rather than buying it, cheap hand tools to change your own oil, skills + a few tools to do your own wiring, etc. etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by MARSHALL TUCKER
Why not call it $40k so you don't have to believe him and quit yer bitchin'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Last Tuesday, I drove to a guys house and paid him 451,000 for a 2017 911R, and then Sold it Friday for 496,000.
I am a dealer, and wholesaled it, so no taxes. Car stayed at my house for 6 days.
I'm waiting to hear from my dealer friend, and might do it all over again, with a black one.
It's fine if y'all want to keep thinking there is no money in it though.
Yeah, income is a major issue - we see a lot of articles talking about cutting out the $5 coffee but increasing income is way more important than cutting out $5 here and there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
Then again, I've been married to the same woman for 18 years, I don't have student loan debt, I don't run up credit card debt bigger than I can pay off, my newest car is a 2011, we only have one kid, we live in a 2BR/1BA 1255 sq ft house, and we cook a lot of meals. Don't own any boats, sleds, vacation property, etc. (Probably spend about $10K a year on skiing tho) Other folks have more complicated and more expensive situations.
OH, well, sure. You're a dealer of high end cars, and you flipped. Hardly the subject at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer Drinker
The guy that bought the car originally for 220k made 230k.
He titles them in MT, and pays no taxes.
That's sweet, but, the trading of expensive assets by high end dealers sent what this is about. I mean, nobody's even driving these things until they settle into the real market. Your quick flip stories pretty much prove my point. But, hey, go ahead and buy that steel, and have a fun retirement! Life is short, drive German!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer Drinker
You know this isn't a reasonable nor scalable strategy for everybody. You have inside knowledge, not the illegal kind, just the right kind of connections because it is your fucking job. It would be like saying "Investing is easy. I just bought a company for $100 million, gutted it, loaded it up with debt and then sold it for $200 million. Why can't everybody do this?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer Drinker
I'm at a different level than most, but it's pretty easy to flip cars and make 2-3k each. That's how I got started.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsquared
I also put "ymmv" in parentheses. Rental properties are way easier.
Yeah, passive investing is a different animal than running a biz buying and selling things. Similarly, some people who buy a rental property soon learn that it too is running a biz. There's nothing wrong about making your money running a biz if you got the knowledge and skills to actually make money doing it, but acknowledge that running a biz is not "investing" as that term is most commonly used.
The original guy who's utilizing the MT shell corporation for registering his vehicles is likely taking part in a tax scam. This wouldn't be TGR is a thread weren't derailed by someone bragging about their prowess though.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsquared
yeah, people can make money flipping cars/guitars/wine/skis. scalability/liquidity/correlation to overall economy opinions are up to the reader.
Possibly. It is also pretty easy according to some friends of mine to make a pretty good supplemental income by selling Advocare. YMMV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer Drinker
my wife says packrattin tools ski and river gear aint investin
Somewhat tangential to your question, but I have a ski condo that my wife and I use 60+ nights a year, and we rent it out if we have availability between our stays. It doesn't make money, but it also doesn't cost us much either - rental income fell short of expenses by less than $1k last year. So assuming it appreciates in value, you could see it as a tangible investment, though it's one that takes low-grade maintenance (managing rentals, communicating with renters etc.).
The condo I rented in Dillon the last few years was purchased in the 70s for nothing. The dude was 87, and renting it for almost 3 grand a month until the daughter got wise to Air B&B and Home away and took it off the monthly market. Ca ching.
This is a good option if you can afford it and can learn to manage a rental. It isn't everyone's thing. Airbnb/vrbo has really opened this kind of thing up. We have a few rental properties that usually break even at year end, but their values have appreciated a lot over the last few years. I'e thought about moving into a van and renting our place out but the wife won't let me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravenmorhead
I got the hard press one Thanksgiving about some pyramid scheme juice plus shit from my in laws as an "investment"Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsquared
I excused myself to go drink bourbon on the porch till I couldn't see straight - a solid investment.
IME you want to have RE that a lot of people want to rent right where you can keep an eye on it so you don't have hassles so IME close to town or the uni, the more well set up a basement suite is for rental (separate entrance/laundry/ good sound insulation / good parking) the less intrusive the LL and tenant are to each other, I've only had 2 tennants in >6 yrsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Dunfee
you might make more $$$ from an airbnb if you wana change bedsheets and stuff
its pretty easy for anybody to do, I'm betting high end sports cars or wine ... not so much
Nobody has mentioned art and stuff like that, I dunno Amish furniture.... shit that you can keep around you house to make it look nice that doesn't depreciate. Stuff that will keep up with inflation rather than be totally worthless shit sitting around you house. Granted, its not an 'investment' but maybe that's why in quotes...
https://www.49dollarmontanaregistere...ion/exotic-carQuote:
Originally Posted by dunfree
In ski country (or better winter and summer use) this can be good option. My buddy had a home in Tahoe City that he rented infrequently (holidays in winter, but rented most of summer). He charged a premium for it on VRBO. Less wear and tear than places with more turn. He ended up cash flowing it for a few years. It was work though and he had to be able to trust his housekeeping. Now, he lives in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ULLRismyco-pilot