Marker Duke PT 16 vs CAST Freetour Comparison

Hi,

I have two pairs of Duke PT 16s that I've been using pretty hard inbounds since January 2022 and they ski great. Have done 2 short tours on them. One pair is on 184cm 4FRNT Ravens, which I ski inbounds frequently. The second pair just got put on some 185cm Season Pass.

When I've been skiing my Duke PTs inbounds at Whistler I don't even think about them, they are solid bindings. No issues at all and I don’t even think about them when skiing hard inbounds.

Also recently bought a CAST Freetour set-up....for science.

Thought these 2 bindings (Duke PT and CAST) would be useful to discuss in their own thread....

Stated weight per binding set up (from the internet...not confirmed) is pretty similar:

Duke PT 16

•Uphill Mode (alpine toe removed): 1,050 grams

•Downhill Mode (alpine toe attached): 1,350 grams

CAST Freetour

•Uphill Mode (alpine toe removed): 1,000 grams

•Downhill Mode (all parts included): 1,525 grams

My thinking is that either one is a pretty good set-up for 50/50 skis...both weigh about the same when touring? Total weight is less important when skiing? Both make Shifts or Tectons less desirable to me.

Though I think you need an ATK for a lighter touring set-up to complement.

Thoughts/experiences with either binding? Pros (and why), Cons (and why)

I think the Duke is easier to mount? And is a bit cheaper?

CAST is cooler and has a smaller footprint on the ski?

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I like my PTs as well. I like that I don’t have to removed toes if I’m just lapping something short. I ski all marker so the fact that they share heel holes with royals is sweet, and already owning both jigs I need is another plus. I also like the ridiculously long heel track and ability to let other ski it or use different boots easily. I do make sure to spray my toe pieces with cooking spray. Keeps ice from building up.

2nd vote for Duke PT. I had CAST but sold it without trying but in general prefer delta and simplicity of Markers, normal adjustment range and that they don't look like it went through the grinder after a couple uses. Sure Pivots look cool, all the buzz about how damp and elastic they are but to me Marker is better everyday binding.
Oh, and Markers can be usually found cheaper.

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I look at CAST as a no-compromise alpine setup vs a more compromised AT setup strength wise and you will know which one you need

I have 2 pair of barons in rotation on the hill which always work fine other than they are hard to get into with a new ACL

I keep looking at duke pt's. Decent prices out there. Still listening go see of any problems when touring. From what i hear in the last shile they seem to be holding up.
I had cast v1.0's for solomons and i skied around the hill for well over 200 days with 30ish of those days slackcountry. They have some slop now, especially the tech toe plates but i was confident they could take the daily abuse of the hill without thinking. So i bought the latest version and theure still like new after about 100 days but ive only toured off the hill 6 or 8 times on these. I think they'll be more durable. Only changeover problem ive had is the one day i left my v1's in the back of my truck overnight after a deep day. Toes took some hammering to switch over the first time the next day. Maybe ill find an issue with the v2's as i havent toured that much with them bit they seem easier to change over.
I wohldnt mind duke pt's but maybe i just buy the partial cast kit to use on a 2nd set of skis. That can moderate the price a bit

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I have both.

The only issue I have had with the PTs is the brake sometime does not lock and it as a MFer to get it to lock. I would like to have two climbing post heights.

The Cast toes can be fiddly if the posts aren't spotless-for me anyway.

The Cast "feels" like it tours better. My OCD goes all haywire when the toes of either are squirreled away somewhere. Points for the Dukes to be able to just flop em over which is great for hot laps.

More style points with the Pivots in the lift line. Both are obviously bomber.

My next pair of skis (whenever that is) will have the Casts on 'em. That being said, I'd grab all the Duke PTs if the opportunity arose.

No experience with the PTs but have and like the current Cast as a no-compromise alpine setup. I don’t mind the weight for shorter tours but transitioning is super slow when with others on more traditional touring gear. Besides having to take your skis off to transition, I find the switch often gets frozen/stuck and takes some prodding to pop the toes off. Small gripe though, it s a rad option.

I haven't skied the PT, but one think I dislike about CAST is the brake retention. Pivot brakes already don't retract as much as some others and require the full downward pressure of the boot heel to fully retract. The CAST brake retainer doesn't fully stow the brakes--they kind of hang out a little bit and it's easy to catch them on each other while walking. Won't stop me from using CAST, but I'm guessing that the PT doesn't have this issue.

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While I haven’t used the PT’s, I’ve had a chance to play a little with them and they seem cool and robust. Way better option that a Shift for hard chargers. I have had a fair amount of time on my Casts.

I see there are three main advantages to Cast:
1. It’s fairly cheap to setup a quiver of skis for touring. $75 for the kit for an extra set of skis if you already have a pivot heel lying around.

2. For people who really like Pivots. For some of us, Pivots are the only binding we like. If you like Markers, cool (they’re always easier to find cheaper). However, my weathered knees feel a difference in the suspension on chattery snow and I can run a lower DIN without pre-releasing.

3. Better walking mode with multiple climbing heights. The ergonomics of the Cast touring toe are excellent. (I’ve heard less than stellar reviews of the Markers, but I haven’t had a chance to try).

Swapping the toes, and storing them is the biggest downside to the Casts.

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Originally Posted by kc_7777

I think the Duke is easier to mount?...

CAST is cooler and better (smaller) footprint on the ski?

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I've mounted a handful of PT's and a bunch of casts; neither is a difficult mount, just have a couple extra holes with the cast. However I do recommend tapping the toe holes for cast whether there is metal or not; with lighter weight skis with soft cores it would be easy to misalign the post screws enough to make swapping toes difficult.

Cast is a smaller footprint, which comes with zero adjustment range. I think it's a better setup for someone like me that already runs pivots on everything, and is only going to be making an existing resort ski touring-capable. The second ski option makes it pretty affordable, but it seems like if you're going to be using multiple skis for touring, you might be looking at objectives that would benefit from a much lighter setup. I have seen zero issues with PTs come across my bench, but there's not a lot of them in the wild down here.

Curious on if there's more thoughts on these 2 bindings. I'd figured TGR would have more discussion.

Both seem to be pretty solid bindings with a few minor complaints about both. Doesn't seem to be a clear winner

I do really like pivots but cost-wise Duke PTs make more sense (unless you're setting up multiple skis or already have pivots).

There are existing Cast threads but what more do you need to know than CAST is the NO COMPROMISE alpine binding ?

any AT binding including DUKE is a compromise to allow touring, the CAST is no compromise

My 2 pairs of Duke PTs are getting lots of duty inbounds. And a few short tours. Zero complaints.

Not sure why anyone would own Shifts (I’m not a Shift hater…have owned a few pairs of Shifts) with these two options.

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I sold my Shifts unused in favor of Cast, but I think I can answer that… I’m a Salomon guy through and through. My binding of choice is STH2 and before that S91x. I’ve hated Marker since probably the late 80s and still hold an irrational grudge. On the rare occasion I’ve used Marker (demos etc) I’ve been let down. I know I’m not giving them a fair chance but I deeply distrust the company. The Shift, on paper, is a perfect fit to replace my Guardians as a primarily inbounds binding that can do sidecountry laps. I got scared off by user reports of unreliability on the downhill (I viewed it as a safety issue).

I like Cast but transitions are slow and I would really prefer some Delta. The reliability, durability, and easy quiver sharing are worth the downsides to me at this point. Keep in mind this is from the perspective of someone also DD these inbounds. The major improvements on my wish list would be Pivot 12 compatibility (for lower weight and cost) or better yet a STH2 version. A simpler solution might be to just shim the heel but I haven’t dedicated the time to sort that out yet.

Edit: I’m lurking the thread because the Duke PT really does seem to be doing a lot of things right. Sharing a mount with its alpine siblings is amazing for instance.

Shift might be a good compromise for a travel ski. Little extra weight than a true pin tech binding for proper touring and a little less weight than a pure alpine setup. I dont want to ski pins on the hill and a day at rogers pass in CAST would kill me

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Originally Posted by grinch

Shift might be a good compromise for a travel ski. Little extra weight than a true pin tech binding for proper touring and a little less weight than a pure alpine setup. I dont want to ski pins on the hill and a day at rogers pass in CAST would kill me

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Given my extended time off, a day at Rogers Pass would do me in, even with the assistance of helium aided weight reduction ;-)

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Given my extended time off, a day at Rogers Pass would do me in, even with the assistance of helium aided weight reduction ;-)

... Thom

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Haa same boat here. I think about that every 300ft lap i do here on the east. My stock gpo's are at friends out west. They'd be a good candidate for me to just drag a set of shifts out west and mount up for a mixed bag of skiing. 8.5lb gpo and shifts would be fun everywhere

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Originally Posted by TexasGortex

I sold my Shifts unused in favor of Cast, but I think I can answer that… I’m a Salomon guy through and through. My binding of choice is STH2 and before that S91x. I’ve hated Marker since probably the late 80s and still hold an irrational grudge...

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Solly has had their failures too, as has Dynafit and every other manufacturer. Modern Markers are no better or worse than all the other big players; you should objectively give them another chance. I don't notice a difference b/w Marker, Solly 914, or Look Pivots when skiing (I know plenty of mags say they do, YMMV). When I was traveling overseas I chose Marker F12/F10 Tours for myself and my wife as a middle ground for reliability riding lifts and not *too* heavy to do some touring or side country. They worked well on a single ski quiver. If the Duke PT checks all your boxes don't let the Marker name hold you back. Ford has made some crap cars in the last 40y but I would still be stoked to have a new F150.

Another option would be to look around or ask on the forum you could try to get a Cast 1.0. They had different versions compatible with Pivots and also for Marker Lord bindings. In the case of the former, you could use your own Pivot 12s. Shimming the heel is also easy and I think you can buy premade shims from the race crowd?

It's pretty hilarious to see these cast threads and read about people speculating and judging the reliability and durability of the system.... Like it's literally a pivot 18, should we start making "are pivot 18's good bindings " threads? There simply is no comparison, the cast system is a goddamn pivot 18 and the pt is some untested marker abortion that to me does not warrant a second look. Besides that, you buy a cast and you support two brothers directly from our community, buy a pt and you support whatever conglomerate marker is. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by skis_the_trees

Another option would be to look around or ask on the forum you could try to get a Cast 1.0. They had different versions compatible with Pivots and also for Marker Lord bindings. In the case of the former, you could use your own Pivot 12s. Shimming the heel is also easy and I think you can buy premade shims from the race crowd?

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They also made the v1 for Salomon driver-style bindings. I don't know specifically if there's a fit difference between S91x and the newer STH/STH2 bindings and what would work with first gen Cast plates though.

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Originally Posted by pow314

It's pretty hilarious to see these cast threads and read about people speculating and judging the reliability and durability of the system.... Like it's literally a pivot 18, should we start making "are pivot 18's good bindings " threads? There simply is no comparison, the cast system is a goddamn pivot 18 and the pt is some untested marker abortion that to me does not warrant a second look. Besides that, you buy a cast and you support two brothers directly from our community, buy a pt and you support whatever conglomerate marker is. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

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Kohlberg & Co.
After Jarden merged with Newell Brands, the corporate group sold Marker and other winter brands to equity firm Kohlberg & Co. in 2017.

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Originally Posted by justo8484

They also made the v1 for Salomon driver-style bindings. I don't know specifically if there's a fit difference between S91x and the newer STH/STH2 bindings and what would work with first gen Cast plates though.

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I’m not a Cast expert. But fairly certain the STH2 will not work. I think only the 916/STH steel will work with the Cast 1.0 because they have metal base plates and are fucking rad.

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Originally Posted by justo8484

They also made the v1 for Salomon driver-style bindings. I don't know specifically if there's a fit difference between S91x and the newer STH/STH2 bindings and what would work with first gen Cast plates though.

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S900 918 etc is the same as sth. Sth2 is different. The v1 is for sth so s900 etc should work. It will come down to whether or not there is enough range in the toe height adjustment for those bindings to accept a lugged touring boot sole thickness. I still have my v1's with an ffg14(atomics rebadged sth14). Once i year i have to back my toe off the pedestal and apply some blue lock tite on the threads so tge toe height adjustment doesnt loosen off while skiing but its worked for years. The only weakness i found was the tech toe plate that the tech toe mounts to is shorter in length tjan the plate that the salomon toe mounts on to. That shorter plate developed play early. Much earlier than the salomon toe plate. The longer plate is more stable in the receptical so it didnt wear nearly as quick. It has a little slop after 200+ days as a daily driver. The new cast is much better but the old ones served me well so i cant compain

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Originally Posted by skisurfmirth

I’m not a Cast expert. But fairly certain the STH2 will not work. I think only the 916/STH steel will work with the Cast 1.0 because they have metal base plates and are fucking rad.

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Good to know. I wasn't sure of the specific differences with the STH2 since I don't work in a shop anymore and gave up on salomon bindings long again when I was skiing S912/914s and regularly snapping heel trays. Switched to pivots on everything and haven't looked back since.

Curious if anyone else has more input on comparing the two after finishing up the season and maybe some spring tours?

PTs seem nicely self contained and a bit less fiddly (obviously still somewhat though), easier to mount. Cheaper cost for an individual setup is obviously big. Minus for being kinda large and uggo lol.

Being able to mount up multiple sets of skis with just the CAST extra second ski kit is really appealing though after the initial upfront - especially cuts the cost if I can just use some of the Pivot 12/14 heels I have lying around. AFD swapping between alpine and gripwalk is a bit annoying but seems an easy process and no worse than adjusting the AFD screw. Seems a mixed bag about whether people experience icing or difficulty in the transition?