I tried on most of the new AT boots today

I just have to chime in here as I continue to tour in my factors and not touch my megarides. There is no doubt that I will tour in my megarides a bunch for super long tours but I have been stoked the more days I'm in the factor and some of those days good size tours with my freakishly fast touring partner. I think like srsosbro pointed out that many of the folks looking at these are coming from alpine boots and this is an alpine boot with dynafit compatability, rockered sole and walk mode and a great option for that crowd. For people like myself who have lighter boots I don't know that I would only have it and ditch the lighter AT boot but I love having the option of a far superior skiing boot for those certain days. The factor skis that much better than my megaride!!! I use booster straps on my megaride and plan on adding a power wrap liner shortly so maybe I will change mind but I think what stands out about the factor is the difference with the overlap design. I hate when you hit the tongue wall on the megaride and then the sides of the boot just deform and the lateral stiffness on the factor is far better!! The one place that the feeling of the tongue wall and deforming that really has been showing up is landing airs. I not a huge air guy but the factor is so smooth and comfortable landing where I hate landings and just don't air much on the megaride. I keep looking for air where normally I save that for my pure alpine boot. This brings me back to my point that these boots really do ski like an alpine boot. Some of the other things brought up is getting in and out of the boot. Once you do it a few times and pull the tongue way out you can get in and out fine. Part of this is that the heel pocket holds you in so tight that it can be tight getting in and out. The walkmode has been discussed a ton so I won't go into that but works great for my touring purposes and style. So there is no doubt that these boots are not for everyone but I think it represents what a lot of folks have been asking for which is a AT boot that skis like an alpine boot. Now if they can just make it 2 lbs. lighter you have a no brainer that everyone will love as long as it fits!!!!!!!

Thanks for that.

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Originally Posted by snoop

I hate when you hit the tongue wall on the megaride and then the sides of the boot just deform

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THIS ^^^ is why I have never bought AT boots, and this

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Originally Posted by snoop

this is an alpine boot with dynafit compatability...the difference with the overlap design... these boots really do ski like an alpine boot

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is why I'll be buying some now.

So that's what it takes to get UAN back. A detailed review of AT boots with slightly differing impressions :D

Give me a call man. I don't think either one of us are skiing too much these days.


The reason I'm even looking at boots is that I'm switching over to dynafits. I'm kind of tired of Fritschis. So in doing that I'm looking for the most alpine boot-esque option out there. My current adrenalins with intuitions are already not the lightest and I figure the wieght lost in bindings should even out a potentially heavier boot.

Over that last few years I've gotten to really appreciate a good alpine setup. I know a lot of people view that as a crutch but I don't have a decade or two worth of skiing underneath me like most people and I can definitely ski more aggressively with more foreward lean and a stiffer boot.

Switching back and forth annoys me......you know.....that whole phenomenon you avoid completely by always skiing in AT gear. ;) I'm not man enough to do that, all kidding aside.

The Factors were to me the stiffest of those three boots, no question. As hokey as that boa system is, it really did seem to give a very even compression and compact the upper part of the liner pretty well. I think this allows you remove any slop in the liner when you go to buckle up. I actually tightened it a good bit again after having the boots on for a while. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed that way to me, especially in comparison to the lace up liner on the Zzeus. That boa system is nothing new by the way. Snowboard boots have had that for years. Early versions did break, but later ones were solid. Hopefully BD did some homework.

I mentioned that I had them on and it was warm because I do think it's relevant. There's no question in my mind that my boots heat up after two hours of hiking, especially in the spring time. Are they going to heat up to room temperature while skinning up in two feet of snow? Probably not. But again the mention of it could also point to a potential error in my assessment at the very least. Point being: they were pretty warm when I was comparing flexes. If the Zzeuseseses stiffen up in the cold, that's a good thing.

I threw my adrenalins in my truck this morning and I'm going back to the shop to try on the factors again to get a better comparison to what I already own. I haven't skied since last June so I realize I may just be forgetting what my own boots feel like. I can say this though: I know they expand the foot box when flexed quite a bit, especially after having them on for a few hours. The radiums and the Zzeusseseses did this too, a lot more than the factors. Which again makes me think the factors will maintain their stiffness after some use a little better.

If I'm wrong in my thinking on any of this please let me know. I'm about to drop a crapload of money on one of these things :D

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Originally Posted by upallnight

i also wanted to call out woo's mention of the zzeus feeling ultra soft in a warm room. one reason i piped up was that i felt some could have the impression based on his comments that the zzeus was super soft and the factor much stiffer in comparison. i didn't experience that, and i'm not sure of the relevance of "once the boot warmed up". one good point: it did raise the sensitivity of that boot's flex to temperature, although i think it unlikely that people will use it in an environment where it will turn to butter.

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Oh yeah.....just to clarify. I didn't think the Zzeus was a soft boot in comparison to other AT boots, just softer than the Factor and softer than what I was expecting. I may try to downsize half a size today but as it stands from my comparison yesterday, the radium and Zzeus were pretty comparable. I tried on all 26s FWIW. A 25.5 might be a better indication. But either way, I'm looking for the best fitting stiffest dynafit compatible boot out there. So far the Zzeus seems not it.

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Originally Posted by snoop

I hate when you hit the tongue wall on the megaride and then the sides of the boot just deform

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Yup. Hate it. And unfortunately even the Scarpa Skookums, as stiff as they are, still do this - hit the tongue, flex forward, and the sides just bulge out. They don't do it nearly as much as my old Scarpa Vectors or Scarpa Denali TTs do, but they still do.

However. I tried the BD Factors on again yesterday. Honestly, I'm not too impressed about the flex. They're stiff as fuck once I reach the front, but I don't like that there's almost an inch of forward lean before I hit the stiff flex. It's just weird. The Skookums aren't as stiff overall, but they flex progressively all the way from the beginning.

Dunno. Still super undecided. Fortunately I don't need AT boots till late Feb / early March, plenty of time to try shit out and pick the perfect one. Unless I decide to go with the Factors which would mean getting rid of my alpine boots and keeping a one-boot quiver. Then again, the fact that the Factors don't come with the lugged Dynafit soles pisses me off - $750 bucks and shelling out another $50 bucks for the soles. Bwah.

The herd mentality. [ above post for srsosbso]

All overlap boots are better then tongue boots

Fritschis suck

Dynafits are for pansies ... oh wait ... Dynafits are rad-gnar

Riser bars are great ... oh wait ... flat bars are great

Baggy pants are the tits ... oh wait .... hip hugging Scholler is great ....

Not a specific knock on the Factor bandwagon. What's important is that it works FOR YOU [lots of emphasis added.

Kidwoo I can't compare to the radium and zzues as they just didn't fit as well as the factor did for my foot but thats one of the things that stands out about the factor to me is there ability to be flexed hard and not having that feeling of the plastic deforming and then creating a sloppy feel. They absolutely maintain great stiffness fore and aft as well as laterally.

Lots of good points in this thread. I finally settled on the Radiums and have skied them 12 days or so. Much stiffer in all respects than my stock Megarides with clapped out G-Fit liners, and much easier on my feetsies when driving bigger skis. But if I had fitted my Megarides with Powerwraps and good booster straps? Who knows? Probably could've gotten 85% of the performance for 85% of the weight at 30% of the price. Of course, that doesn't satisfy my inner gear whore quite as much as new Radiums.

If you already have an AT boot you like, the new boots probably aren't necessary, as UAN said. If you don't have AT boots or if you think your current boots are failing you, it's good to have the new options.

Anyway, I'll have some more impressions after a dozen more days. I like the Radium much better than the Megarides in most respects but as has been said previously, it's more evolutionary than revolutionary.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Fritschis suck

Dynafits are for pansies ... oh wait ... Dynafits are rad-gnar

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Moooooo


Wanna buy some freerides?

I was about 20 minutes from buying another pair a few weeks ago and just realized that with the price these things still cost, now is the time to switch.

My name is kidwoo and I want some ramp angle.

Snoop: Yeah I totally agree. I've got the older style adrenalins with the tab tounge thing that moves about half an inch and then stops the tounge and begins expanding the boot. It feels wierd. There's a little of that to the Factor but nothing like the older garmonts. Of course it looks like the newer adrenalines just use the megaride system now.....bummer for me. The factor still has that rearward lean slop before it hits the heel bar thing but again, it's better than most boots I've tried. Thanks for the input. Not too may people have actual ski time on these yet.

If I end up getting these things the first thing I'm doing is taking out the walk/ski mode bar and seeing if I can add a notch higher up so the 'ski' position is more angled. It might get rid of that slop and put you immediate into the spot where you're flexing the boot and not moving the cuff up to that point.

It looks like you can pull it out with some allen screws. Woot!

Kidwoo I agree that there is a little of that deforming with the factor but very subtle and way better than most AT boots. I think the only boot that I've used that doesn't do this at all are my Nordica Aggressor 150 and thats cause they hardly budge.

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Originally Posted by BurnHard

I tried the BD Factors on again yesterday. Honestly, I'm not too impressed about the flex. They're stiff as fuck once I reach the front, but I don't like that there's almost an inch of forward lean before I hit the stiff flex. It's just weird.

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I think, THINK, this might be a consequence of the boa system. I found that the boa system allowed me to feel like the boot was tight without, well, tightening the boot. So I was moving WITHIN the cuff. Once I cranked the cuff up tight, like it should be, and like I would have without the liner already feeling tight around my ankle, then I thought it flexed perfectly, like an alpine boot.

And ya, I'm one of those guys that think overlap boots are better. I've tried a lot of floating tongue boots on, and hated them all. Truth is, it was actually anti-herd, because lots of people I know and ski with like the tongue boots fine, but I didn't.

fwiw Dawson's site has a review of the zzeus up. The thing turning me off the zzeus is the low cuff height and the PU plastic. I can just imagine waking up in the morning and not being able to put my boot on if snow camping. After camping last april when it hit -25C, this could be a serious problem.

I'm personally not considering the factor as for me it weighs too much, but I might consider it in the future as a replacement for my alpine boot

the zzeus can be made reasonably light by tossing the heavy stock liner (328 grams each) and putting in intuitions (220grams each), making it 1850gms per boot (radium is 1880gms, factor is 2143gms)

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

So that's what it takes to get UAN back. A detailed review of AT boots with slightly differing impressions :D

Give me a call man. I don't think either one of us are skiing too much these days.

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i dunno...i've toured 30 days so far this year (well, since late october). :D (seriously)

love to ride with you sometime.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

The reason I'm even looking at boots is that I'm switching over to dynafits. I'm kind of tired of Fritschis. So in doing that I'm looking for the most alpine boot-esque option out there. My current adrenalins with intuitions are already not the lightest and I figure the wieght lost in bindings should even out a potentially heavier boot.

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i commented about how the great ankle articulation made the factors feel lighter on your foot than they feel in hand? well, with the dynafits you've got a similar effect: the fantastic stride makes them feel so light & natural. (add on the weight savings, too, and the effect is really mind-blowing. you'll never want to tour on anything else.)

[of course, perhaps all the nay-sayers are right, so the poor skinning stride of the factors might offset the dynafit goodness, just like the weight gain might offset the lightweight dynafits. ;-)]

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Switching back and forth annoys me......you know.....that whole phenomenon you avoid completely by always skiing in AT gear. ;) I'm not man enough to do that, all kidding aside.

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my point has always been that people are remarkably adaptable, but switching back and forth causes people to focus on what is missing in the setup (i.e., "these [AT] boots are so soft" or "these [alpine] boots are so heavy"). when you commit for an extended period of time, you adapt, stop drawing the comparisons, and learn to ski what you've got.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

As hokey as that boa system is, it really did seem to give a very even compression and compact the upper part of the liner pretty well. I think this allows you remove any slop in the liner when you go to buckle up.

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we agree on this point -- i think the BOA system creates a good fit, but i'm 99% confident it will break in my daily use.

also, i'm kind of worried about your 2nd statement. do you have slop in the liner after buckling your current boots? i don't have a BOA system (just intuitions), but there's no slop.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed that way to me, especially in comparison to the lace up liner on the Zzeus.

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to be clear, the BOA liner can go head-to-head with a thermo liner. laces don't do much other than keep the liners on your feet in a hut. so, i'd argue that the uncooked lace-up liner comparison isn't ideal.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

That boa system is nothing new by the way. Snowboard boots have had that for years. Early versions did break, but later ones were solid. Hopefully BD did some homework.

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re: snowboarding BOA liners... the people i've known who have broken BOA liners are snowboarders. :)

re: homework -- hope so. let's check in after a year of hard use (100+ days).

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

There's no question in my mind that my boots heat up after two hours of hiking, especially in the spring time.

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in your example, if they heat up in those conditions, great! they'll tour better on the uphill! :) assuming air temps when you start down are in the 40s (and assuming your feet are on the snow surface), i'd bet they cool down reasonably quick. so...i'd still say that a test of some hard work/flexing in a 70F store may not be relevant.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

I threw my adrenalins in my truck this morning and I'm going back to the shop to try on the factors again to get a better comparison to what I already own. I haven't skied since last June so I realize I may just be forgetting what my own boots feel like. I can say this though: I know they expand the foot box when flexed quite a bit, especially after having them on for a few hours. The radiums and the Zzeusseseses did this too, a lot more than the factors. Which again makes me think the factors will maintain their stiffness after some use a little better.

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definitely try them on side-by-side with your old boot. do your adrenalins have a thermo liner? pop them in each boot you try, to reduce one variable.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

If I'm wrong in my thinking on any of this please let me know. I'm about to drop a crapload of money on one of these things :D

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i think we're all trying to figure this out, and there's no one to attest to the performance and/or durability after 100, 150 days on snow. seems like we'll be the guinea pigs come spring.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Oh yeah.....just to clarify. I didn't think the Zzeus was a soft boot in comparison to other AT boots, just softer than the Factor and softer than what I was expecting. I may try to downsize half a size today but as it stands from my comparison yesterday, the radium and Zzeus were pretty comparable. I tried on all 26s FWIW. A 25.5 might be a better indication. But either way, I'm looking for the best fitting stiffest dynafit compatible boot out there. So far the Zzeus seems not it.

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i tried on 26.0s for all boots. i could not physically get into a 25.5 zzeus. i felt like 26 was right in all of them (albeit not all fit my foot well), for whatever that's worse.

interesting that while i won't sit here and write that the zzeus was super-stiff, i will say that i had equal disappointment in the soft-feeling fore-aft flex of the factors.

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Originally Posted by BurnHard

However. I tried the BD Factors on again yesterday. Honestly, I'm not too impressed about the flex. They're stiff as fuck once I reach the front, but I don't like that there's almost an inch of forward lean before I hit the stiff flex. It's just weird. The Skookums aren't as stiff overall, but they flex progressively all the way from the beginning.

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i found them soft, too. i'm not sure that i agree with someone else's comment after yours that maybe you didn't have the liners tight enough. i'm pretty sure i had put on the liners properly and still experienced what you did.

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Originally Posted by BurnHard

Then again, the fact that the Factors don't come with the lugged Dynafit soles pisses me off - $750 bucks and shelling out another $50 bucks for the soles. Bwah.

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i know what you mean. however, i know folks considering the factor for their only boot. they don't yet have dynafit bindings, but with the factor they preserve dynafit as an option when funds are available.

that said, aren't the factors around $50 cheaper than the US retail of the zzeus? [then again, european retail -- retail -- is $425.]

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Originally Posted by JoeStrummer

Lots of good points in this thread. I finally settled on the Radiums and have skied them 12 days or so. Much stiffer in all respects than my stock Megarides with clapped out G-Fit liners, and much easier on my feetsies when driving bigger skis. But if I had fitted my Megarides with Powerwraps and good booster straps? Who knows? Probably could've gotten 85% of the performance for 85% of the weight at 30% of the price. Of course, that doesn't satisfy my inner gear whore quite as much as new Radiums.

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joe -- you're one of the only people posting with some measure of "extended" experience. the old g-fit liners suck for alpine performance. i've said it then, and it was borne out when some people who initially praised them later reported on the marked difference between g-fits and intuitions.

after trying radiums on in store alongside megarides with intuition + booster + raichle tongue, i'd argue that the megarides had 95-100% of the feel of the radiums.

(note: lateral stiffness is hard to measure indoors, but the radiums didn't feel that much different.)

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Originally Posted by JoeStrummer

Anyway, I'll have some more impressions after a dozen more days. I like the Radium much better than the Megarides in most respects but as has been said previously, it's more evolutionary than revolutionary.

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it will be interesting for all of us to compare notes throughout the season. my pair of zzeuses are due on my doorstep tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Wanna buy some freerides?

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actually, i would! what have you got, woo? if they are lightly-used FR+ (small) and priced right, i might be interested. i need a pair for some skis that only see inbounds use.

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Originally Posted by upallnight

also, i'm kind of worried about your 2nd statement. do you have slop in the liner after buckling your current boots? i don't have a BOA system (just intuitions), but there's no slop.

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No slop in my current boots (intuition power wrap liners btw). I mentioned it because it took me a few lace ups to get the Zzeus linter as snug as the Factor liner. Like you said, I think the intuition and a tightened boa system are similar......nice and tight around your lower leg without too much work. And then once they're as compressed as they're going to be, it's easier to get your boot buckled to the point where there's the solid interface you look for.

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in your example, if they heat up in those conditions, great! they'll tour better on the uphill! :) assuming air temps when you start down are in the 40s (and assuming your feet are on the snow surface), i'd bet they cool down reasonably quick. so...i'd still say that a test of some hard work/flexing in a 70F store may not be relevant.

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Okay. I can believe that. :D

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actually, i would! what have you got, woo? if they are lightly-used FR+ (small) and priced right, i might be interested. i need a pair for some skis that only see inbounds use.

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I don't have any freeride pluses. Just freeride neutrals.

I didn't make it up to the shop today to compare with my current boots. I will tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

I didn't make it up to the shop today to compare with my current boots. I will tomorrow.

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be sure to swap liners -- or at least compare the zzeus/boots other than factors with an intuition liner.

"freeride neutral" works on many levels. nice, for the ramp-angle-hating crowd. :)

Just got back from trying on the Zzeus and Factor with my intutions. The Zeus actually has a stiffer flex with my liners. Just to make sure I wasn't on crack, I put the stock liner back in. Nope, it just sucks compared to an intuition and the boa liner.

I wish I had my video camera while flexing the Zzeus though. It makes funny sounds for sure.


So stiffer is one thing but the quality of flex still goes to the Factor in my mind. Part of it's just the boot material I think as the cuff slides over the lower part of the boot much smoother (and quieter). The Zzeus still felt kind of rough and clumsy where the Factor is more like a smooth oil damped suspension fork. The Zzeus still caused a lot of lower boot expansion when flexed....something I'm still not too stoked on.

Both boots with intuitions were a noticeable improvement over my adrenalins with intuitions so now that I have the Zzeus as a possiblity in my mind now, I think I'd be happy with either one. The Zzeus actually fit a little better than the Factor in terms of footbox width but it was pretty minor.
Some wieghts taken on a digital bike scale.

Stock Factor: 4.6-4.7lbs
Stock Zzeus: 4.2lbs
Adrenalin w/Intuition: 4.2lbs.

So I might actually get a lighter boot if I go with the Zzeus and an intuition. Something else to consider.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

the Factor is more like a smooth oil damped suspension fork.

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Nicely said.

I know a number of folks are about to make purchasing decisions, so I figured I'd post a bit of feedback after a couple hours on the Zzeuses. I'd normally refrain from posting based on limited information, but if you take it with the appropriate caveats it may be valuable.

Really quick...
1) Out of the box, the boots were pretty loud. However, walking around outside I really didn't notice anything that I've not noticed in other AT boots. Did I get used to it and tune it out as background? Do they make more noise at 70F than at 25F? Did the noise lessen after walking a bit/wearing down ever so slightly? Don't know. Not an issue, IMO.

2) Weight. I need to do a more careful measurement, but Zzeus + intuition weighed the same as -- over very close to it -- my Megarides + inutitions + booster straps. That was surprising, particularly given that the Zzeus felt stiffer fore-aft.

3) I skied for a bit in very firm conditions -- fast laps on a groomer where most of the snow was pushed off. The thing everyone cares about is lateral stiffness, and the only reliable test seems to be one done on snow. I felt these were significantly more stiff, laterally, than my Megarides. While not quite an alpine boot, in my opinion, these get quite a bit of the way there to a decent alpine boot's stiffness. (Not comparing them against race boots.) I have every confidence they can drive big skis and/or handle variable conditions -- though more time will be necessary to draw any real conclusions. I suspect the overlap feature to contribute significantly to the alpine-like feel. Note: Air temps were in the 25F ballpark, and we know that the Zzeus has a PU shell that should be stiffer in cold conditions than warm conditions.

4) While the ankle does not flex like the BD with buckles closed, I found that using the buckle extensions on the Zzeus gave me a good range of motion. Revolutionary? No. But at least as good as my Megarides and possibly a tad better. I had no complaints with the Megarides in this department.

5) Ski/Walk mode switch. Easy to engage and feel you're locked in. Need more time to test this, but I don't expect any issues.

Of course, it all comes down to fit, but given that (for me) both Factor and Zzeus liners are throw-aways, the Zzeus + intuition combo's lighter weight and comparable -- if not stiffer -- flex, as well as the competitive freedom of motion when buckles are undone made my decision easier. I would bet that either one will ski quite well and please the owner, but I believe the Zzeus will hike a bit better. In fact, I may retire my Megarides altogether, whch would be a bold statement on longer tours.

Last point: Years ago, as I found with my Dynafit Freeride Aero 4's, there was a small tab or "wing" embedded into the upper cuff such that when it contacted the lower cuff, it dramatically increased the stiffness of the boot. Back then, I felt that this spoiled the flex of the boot altogether -- it was like hitting a brick-wall and any further flex caused the lower shell to deform. One could grind that tab to restore even flex.

The Zzeus has a similar feature. I've attached a photo. "A" shows a raised plastic surface in the shape of 1/2 of an ellipse (vertical long axis) on the upper cuff. The line I drew is just to the right of a 2-3mm lip. This contacts the lower shell and affects flex. In my short experience on the hill, while this is a "brick-wall" type of thing, the lower shell flexed more evenly than that of the old Freeride Aero. I suspect that one may be able to grind down this lip in order to convert it into a ramp (to promote even flex), to move the hard-stop deeper into the flex, or to remove it altogether. At this point, I'm not interested in doing any of that, but I point it out as an option.

PS I see Woo's impressions above agree with mine: The Zzeus is both lighter and stiffer than BD's stiffest offering.

Just my experience, your mileage may vary, opinions based on very limited time on snow, etc., etc.

Its interesting how we can all have very different opinions/experiences with boots. I just came back from trying on the Zzeus, Factor, and Radium for the third time (only in the store time, no skiing). I put my Intuitions in all boots, and to me the Factor is very clearly the stiffest in forward flex, no question. The Zzeus and the Radium seem pretty similar in forward flex, with the Zzeus possibly being a bit stiffer. Zzeus seems to be the widest in the forefoot by a fair bit, but the Radium is taller in the forefoot if that makes sense. Tour mode is as everyone else notes, really smooth forward in the Factor without much rearward movement, pretty good in both directions in the Zzeus, Decent in the Radiums. Can't say much about lateral stiffness.

I'm in a similar situation as UAN, I currently have Megarides with stiff tongues and Intuitions. I'm just not sure how much of a step up the Radiums would be, for me I'm sure the Factors would ski the best, its just the weight and the lack or rearward motion in tour mode that deters me. I emailed Chris Davenport about the Radiums (obviously he could be a bit biases since he is sponsored by Garmont, but isnt he also sponsored by BD?). He raved about the Radiums, saying they weren't even in the same class as the Megarides, and he has skied plenty in the Factors but thinks they are more of a side country boot, not agile enough for ski mountaineering for him.

UAN - be careful about the overlap "flaps" on the ZZeus. The pair I demoed and wrote about for Wildsnow had the flaps folded and compressed. Someone had been a bit hasty getting into them and crossed them over - ie outside flap on inside and vice versa - the plastic's so thin that its easy to do so. Glad you like the boots

I figured I'd mention that i tried on a pair of Methods a few days ago. The BOA system felt great and the only downside was that a ski tech had to use pliers to pull the wire loose after the knob release malfunctioned. They're supposedly fully field serviceable and it could have been one in a million but worrisome all the same.

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Originally Posted by upallnight

The Zzeus has a similar feature. I've attached a photo. "A" shows a raised plastic surface in the shape of 1/2 of an ellipse (vertical long axis) on the upper cuff. The line I drew is just to the right of a 2-3mm lip. This contacts the lower shell and affects flex. In my short experience on the hill, while this is a "brick-wall" type of thing, the lower shell flexed more evenly than that of the old Freeride Aero. I suspect that one may be able to grind down this lip in order to convert it into a ramp (to promote even flex), to move the hard-stop deeper into the flex, or to remove it altogether. At this point, I'm not interested in doing any of that, but I point it out as an option.

.

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anybody done this ?A buddy just got these boots and wants to soften them a bunch ,I suggested dremeling out those lips and finding softer tounges

After going through the sizing / trying on game my size 28 Radiums are ordered and on the way. Almost went for Skookums but I get still get a lot of pain over the instep strap era with the tongue design. So I'll see how the Radiums go. Probably will shim them 0.5-1mm with some binder plastic on the bottom of the shell to increase overall fit and put some foam in to tighten up the heel. The 27.5 was just too damn tight and would have required too much $$$ in bootwork to make it ring.

Not that it matters. PNW is still raining & inversioned.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

A buddy just got these boots and wants to soften them a bunch

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Okay, call me stupid, but why buy the zzeus is he wants a softer boot? Next to the factor they are the heaviest new option out there. Is your pal a 25.5 or 26 by any chance? Tell him to sell me his zzeus's cheap and buy himself the zzero.

would you believe me if I told you We have a small local rather ecelectic group of hard boot snow boarders who have been rocking some old nordica AT boots for a great many years which are no longer available ,buddy got the clear red zzeros and he finds them kind of stiff ?