Snowboarder charged with negligent homicide for deadly collision

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Originally Posted by Tippster

And in your opinion he's obviously guilty, right? No testimony necessary!

Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the rest of us, there's still a judicial process that will be followed. This armchair jurying before all the facts are out is ridiculous, and makes you guys look like idiots.

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What the hell are you talking about? Your a skier, aren't ya? Unless this woman fell off the chairlift into the path of this dope, he is negligent and guilty of something. Does the "downhill" skier sometimes do careless and stupid shit...yup! But, the written and unwritten rule has been the same since I started skiing. The "uphill" skier is responsible and must yield in every case.

Did you need a courtroom to tell you OJ was guilty when he was driving down to Mexico in a disguise, $10,000 in cash, and a gun to his head?

I see that the Court has spoken. Guiltier than charged - let's cut off his testicle.

I blame the SSX series of video games. In them, you actually get points for how many skiers/boarders you can knock down.

I say ban all video games and this kind of incident would never happen.

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Originally Posted by alpinedad

My kids do stupid shit all the time. As do I, although hopefully less frequently with experience.

The problem is, this kid didn't do something stupid. He didn't even do something stupid while engaging in an inherently dangerous activity. He didn't even just disregard obvious risks.

If the above descriptions are accurate, he straightlined down an open slope and still hit someone. That says to me that he failed to make the slightest effort to reduce the potential harm to others.

And in my book, that crosses the line.

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I know what your are saying. I just don't know what was going on in his mind and that is the problem. If he was going as fast as people are saying he was then maybe he didn't see her or she came up so quickly that he was just unable to avoid her. There most definitely needs to be some sort of stiff sentence but throwing kids in jail for accidental death, which I think it was, is not what I nor a lot of people in this country or world believe in.

I am also hesitant to believe eye witnesses at ski resorts. I have heard people complain about somebody going "fast" when, to me, they were skiing within a reasonable speed. This is where that video is going to be nice for one side or maybe even both.

I read about your kid's experience earlier this winter and am sorry to hear it has happened to both.

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Originally Posted by snow_slider

I blame the SSX series of video games. In them, you actually get points for how many skiers/boarders you can knock down.

I say ban all video games and this kind of incident would never happen.

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That's funny.

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Originally Posted by StaggerLee

I was in JHMR the week before this happened last year with my 5 yr old son and 8yr old daughter. I was horrified to hear the news...I do think that this kid needs to pay some retribution. Not sure if jail is the answer...More importantly, how can the lessons learned in this tragedy be used to deter this type of behavior?? Each weekend, I see TOO MANY asshole snowboarder kids exhibiting this same type of behavior at my local hill...I hate to discriminate, but I just don't see this type of behavior being exhibited by younger skiers...It seems pervasive within the snowboarder crowd. You can even hear some of these punks joking around in the lines about the skiers they took out. In the end, I think a zero tolerance policy needs to be implemented. Interested in hearing thoughts about how this experience can be leveraged to curb/eliminate behaviors like these that endanger the health and lives of others within the ropes...I am a firm believer in negative reinforcement - public beatings, etc...Make it as painful and publicly unacceptable as possible for the punks exhibiting this type of behavior. Not enough patrollers to deal with this issue. We need to self police.

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You're a piece of work Lee. You obviously don't get out on the hill that much because I see just as many dumbass twoplankers as I do snowboarders. Just because someone straps on a board doesn't suddenly make them an "asshole snowboarder" just looking for people to knock over. Really like your narrow minded mentality. Remind me the next time one of your kids runs in to me so I can adminster the public beating you think is necessary as part of self policing our slopes. I can't believe it took some one this long to come up with a solution to this problem. Thanks again Lee!

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Originally Posted by skiski

Jail also sends a message to other people to be more careful. THe kid did not mean to kill anyone, but he disregarded an obvious danger. It's the same reason we put drunk (or otherwise grossly negligent) drivers who kill someone in jail. Very few drunk drivers mean to kill anyone; they're just out for a good time. But everyone knows it's really dangerous. Jail may not be the best deterrent to criminally negligent behavior - it's like avalanches, everyone thinks that, even though there's some risk, they themselves will be alright. But if we told every drunk driver who kills someone not to worry about it, there would be more drunk driving. If you plant the seed in the mind of skiers/boarders that their stupid conduct may land them in jail, then in theory people will be more careful.

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Absolutely right. It seems to me that we have more and more dangerous behavior on the slopes every year and it needs to be adressed. Obviously there are way too many people out there that think nothing of recklessly endangering others. As a society we need to stand up and say it isn't OK. I just see so many people out there skiing fast through crowds and lots of other irresponsible stuff. Do ANYTHING you want when no one else is endangered but as soon as someone else is endangered you need to take a different approach.

I love skiing fast, too, and I get plenty of opportunities to do so without endangering anyone else. I don't have any sympathy for the idiots that don't seem to have any judgment in this regard and applaud when I see someone charged in a case like this one.

Whatever happened to that kid in Vail who killed the man. I believe he was 18. I don't think he did any jail time did he? If I remember correctly the man's wife did not push for jail time, subjective I know. I could be wrong though.

It's a terrible thing to see things like that happen on the slopes, but honestly, shit happens. For that woman, who got a huge impact in the first place, and then probably did not slide on her ass or her back like she could have, and for that kid who killed her. That kid may have neglected many risks, but I still think it is an accident. Unvoluntary therefore. And I am quite sure that having the death of a person on your mind for the rest of your life is a bigger punishment than anything a court could give, and he does not deserve to go to jail. A fine sounds very reasonable though, as well as community service.

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Originally Posted by Mybad!

Whatever happened to that kid in Vail who killed the man. I believe he was 18. I don't think he did any jail time did he? If I remember correctly the man's wife did not push for jail time, subjective I know. I could be wrong though.

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From an article I wrote when that happened:

January 31, 2001 - Most of us expected to see jail time handed down to Nathan Hall, after being found guilty of criminally negligent homicide in the death of Alan Cobb on a Vail ski slope. Few of us expected to see the judge only sentence Nathan to 90 days in jail, since the crime normally carries at least one year of time behind bars but Hall could have received up to six years. Judge Lass also told Hall he will have to complete 240 hours of community service and may not be found alcohol or illegal substances in his system during a probationary period where he would be subjected to random testing. Additionally, Nathan was ordered to pay restitution.

This afternoon, Nathan Hall stood before the Denver courtroom filled with relatives of the victim and expressed his emotions through tears. "I stand before you guys knowing I've taken a human life, a life obviously very special and valued by a lot of people," said Hall, "I in no way feel I've suffered even a small fraction of what I've put you guys through."

In a Dateline NBC special that aired Tuesday night, Nathan admitted that he was skiing too fast for the slushy spring conditions that day and had he been skiing slower, he may not have lost control and the accident would not have happened. "I wake up every morning with this," he said. "Despite my actions, I think about it every day."

Still, the sentence will be debated heavily. As many skiers fully understand the risks involved with the sport, others believe that Hall should be held fully responsible for his actions. "The sentence was lenient. In similar cases involving death in, for instance, traffic, or other circumstances, the sentence would be 1 year or greater," says Jim Chalat, a skier and Colorado attorney who specializes in ski related cases. To Chalat, the light sentence comes as no suprise since Judge Lass originally threw out the case against Hall in the first round. Although Lass said in his sentencing that it was a terrible tragedy but not an accident.

Amusing.... You guys want to hold your "rights" and "privileges" so close to your hearts, while making sure to keep your responsibilities at least arm's length away.

You can't have it both ways.

I guess we'll all just have to wait and see what the court says.

I really don't get this "accident" stuff. If you drive your car at 100 mph down a road, and kill a pedestrian, guess what? you're going to jail. Especially since this kid, according to all witnesses, did nothing to avoid creaming this woman.

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

I really don't get this "accident" stuff. If you drive your car at 100 mph down a road, and kill a pedestrian, guess what? you're going to jail. Especially since this kid, according to all witnesses, did nothing to avoid creaming this woman.

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Simple really. Did the kid think "I'm gonna kill this bitch" or not? If yes, he's a murderer. If no, it was an accident.

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

I really don't get this "accident" stuff. If you drive your car at 100 mph down a road, and kill a pedestrian, guess what? you're going to jail. Especially since this kid, according to all witnesses, did nothing to avoid creaming this woman.

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Driving 100mph is illegal. Straightlining is not.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

Driving 100mph is illegal. Straightlining is not.

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Reckless endangerment is. Criminally negligent homicide is.

Unfortunately, ignorance isn't. :rolleyes:

I wonder if this kid got going too fast and couldn't get the board back under control. Logic would say fall, but I've seen this before. Someone turns into a rocket and they freeze up and just keep gaining speed until they hit an immovable object. I doubt this kid just refused to adjust his line as the article suggests. It's self preservation. No one is going to take that kind of hit on purpose. It was probably going to be a tree but the woman got hit first, probably saving his life. Anyway lots of ???

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Originally Posted by seatosky

Simple really. Did the kid think "I'm gonna kill this [woman]" or not? If yes, he's a murderer. If no, it was an accident.

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Wow, that's a nice way to refer to a dead person, asshole. I won't even use the term you used in your response because I find that to be so incredibly rude to someone who lost her life at a young age doing something that we all love and through no fault of her own. Fire back your response about freedom of speech. Sure, you can say it, but you're still a dick for saying it.

Legally, the more appropriate question is "did the defendant consciously disregard a risk that he knew of or should have known of and was his act a gross deviation from the standard of care a normal person would observe under the situation." If yes, then he's guilty of criminally negligent homicide. If no, then he is not guilty. He's not accused of murder. As I stated earlier, there is a reason that we punish people for disregarding a risk that results in death - to deter others from disregardnig the same risk. No, it does not help this kid to throw him in jail, and it might ruin a second life. But it also might save lives if some other people realize that they too could have their lives ruined for negligently taking someone else's life.

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Originally Posted by BLOODSWEATSTEEL

Reckless endangerment is. Criminally negligent homicide is.

Unfortunately, ignorance isn't. :rolleyes:

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Roll your eyes elsewhere. Whether or not anyone was CRIMINALLY negligent remains to be determined.... by a Jury. But please, pontificate some more.

people who ski/ride motorcycles/board/drive cars too fast for conditions or beyond their abilities suck and are dangerous; and if they hurt someone else deserve serious punishment regardless of wether it was accidental. I say throw away the key.

Does anyone know where in Laramie bowl this was? Does anyone know exactly how it happened? Was the girl traversing? Did they (the girl and boy) have the skill to be there?

This stuff might seem irrelavent, but it helps to describe the situation better. I think that video is very important to knowing what went on. There are many situations where the blame is entirely on him and many others where it just turned out to be a shitty accident.

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Originally Posted by mookie blaylock

people who ski/ride motorcycles/board/drive cars too fast for conditions or beyond their abilities suck and are dangerous; and if they hurt someone else deserve serious punishment regardless of wether it was accidental. I say throw away the key.

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I hope you aren't applying this to this instance... because we don't know if any of those are correct.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

Roll your eyes elsewhere. Whether or not anyone was CRIMINALLY negligent remains to be determined.... by a Jury. But please, pontificate some more.

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I'll roll where I please.

As far as the court determining criminal negligence... well, I suppose we can agree there.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

Driving 100mph is illegal. Straightlining is not.

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....If things were only that simple. ;) Apparently you didn't understand what I was trying to convey. As far as pontification goes, a lack of absolutism or constants are pretty much a rule of law in this totally abstract world.

But I guess we'll save that for another thread.

whatever happens there better be a few lawsuits. This is America god dammit. When shit happens we get paid.

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Originally Posted by filthyfrenchbum

It's a terrible thing to see things like that happen on the slopes, but honestly, shit happens. For that woman, who got a huge impact in the first place, and then probably did not slide on her ass or her back like she could have, and for that kid who killed her. That kid may have neglected many risks, but I still think it is an accident. Unvoluntary therefore. And I am quite sure that having the death of a person on your mind for the rest of your life is a bigger punishment than anything a court could give, and he does not deserve to go to jail. A fine sounds very reasonable though, as well as community service.

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Isn't this the same argument that is made for DRUNK DRIVING! It doesn't matter what the snowboarders mindstate was, it his actions that are relevant. Same as if I drink 12 beers after a day of riding and I THINK I can drive - if I plow over some dumbass, French skier in my truck, then I am going to jail, regardless of my intent and what I thought.

This kid crossed the line and his actions led to the death of another person. Yes, I am a "law and order" type AND if he is proven guilty by the prosecutor; he should get a year in jail.

More importantly, what everyone has missed is that this kid is screwed after he gets out of jail for other reasons. Not because he served a year or missed a year of school but because the woman's family will bring a wrongful death action against him and win a huge judgment which he will be paying off for the rest of his life.
Is that too harsh...maybe for this kid. BUT, next time some asshole decides to straightline and THINKS they can stay in control at a crowded resort; they will remember what happened to that kid in JH and decide to take it into the backcountry