Chargey, Damp, but Surfey Hardpack Ski?

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Damp, chargey, hardpack and surfey don’t coexist.
Damp, chargey, harpack, lots of options.
Damp, surfey, chargey, options there.
All of those combined? Nope.
Nothing that’s going to charge hard pack is going to surf well or at all.
Muggy, do you mean easy to break out of a carve on firm or soft’ish snow, throw them sideways to shut them down?
If so a lot of skis can do that if detuned properly and you can feather the edge in a turn.
I believe you are in fact looking for a firm snow trencher that you can break loose on firmer now with some effort, I sure as shit don’t want a firm snow trencher that gets loose easily.
Quite a few of the skis mentioned will do that. If you are a smaller guy, the HL R99 AM would fit that bill. The tip is to soft for charging softer or heavier snow if heavier and/or taller. If you can hold out for a bit I’ll have the Comp build hopefully by the weekend and will drop a review. With that said, the AM is a great ski and does a lot of what you want.
The M102 gets high praise by buds who rip, DJ included.
Honestly you may be looking more at a Dynastar mfree99 or Mpro99 or the Menace when you say,” but the ability to make quick turns and more importantly, smear and pivot quickly is also a must”.
Really you are looking for a unicorn that I don’t believe exists.


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Again... E110. It's a wide ski, but damn if it isn't a quiver killer for me. Great carving hardpack ski. Great pow ski for a lighter guy like me (6' 155lbs). Steeps, bumps and trees. I mounted them +1 because I generally prefer progressive mounts. My ONLY complaint is that they're heavy when I'm jumping off of stuff, but I'm getting used to that. I have about 15 days on mine now.

Also thinking Mfree 99.

I wonder about the E104.... I haven't met a lot of people that didn't like something from the Enforcer line. That's why I bought mine.

OG Cochise is a really good option.

Enforcer 110 is fine if you are lighter, but it’s not a true charger IMO, especially if you are heavier. Skied the 191 for two years. Great on groomers and very loose, especially in fresh snow. They just didn’t have enough backbone in crud and variable, at least not for me. But, a lighter weight skier may see it differently.

Regarding the E104, it’s another close option, but it’s not loose and smeary.

I have limited time on MFree99, it certainly is loose and does surprisingly well on soft groomers, but it’s no charger.

Which, if you disregard the M102 suggestion, brings us to that other Dynastar everyone is tired hearing about that has a “108” in its name.

Like some others said, pretty impossible combo to have, but I'll throw my vote in for commander 98s.

I just picked up a pair of 188s from gear swap and have a few days on them now. If you're looking for a stiff AF, damp, chargey ski that rips hardpack but that still breaks free predictably and isn't too hard to slide around, this is it. I was a bit intimidated by them at first when I realized just how long and heavy they were in hand, but turns out they are super intuitive and easy to ski for how hard they charge. I can finesse them through bumps and tight spots way more easily than I expected. Granted, I do enjoy the "ease of the west;" these are Utah bumps not Vermont bumps. I think with more detuning or greater base angle they could become even more surfy, at the expense of hardpack grip of course.

Hmm, good points all. I suppose the “want it all” stems a little bit from the way I feel about my Quixotes. They charge hard, bust through crud, can lay an edge, and smear/pivot/shut down on command and let me slink through bigger soft bumps. Definitely not “dead feeling”

I suppose I’m looking for a narrower version of that, with some metal (presumably), that carves better on hardpack (medium-small radius turns perhaps) and is a lot less work in harder/tighter bumps than the 118mm Q waist.

I maybe should have prefaced that I probably place more emphasis on mogul performance than carving hard on ice and hardpack. I won’t be laying any GS turns down. Although want something damp and heavy enough that it doesn’t get deflected much in the chunder we get here.

I’m 5’10 200 lbs these days, I skiing pretty fast this season. Definitely more of a power than finesse skier.

The OG Cochise is what you seek.

Since you asked for 80-100mm suggestions I’ll throw in the Kendo 88.

Haven’t skied it myself, but will pick it up for use on those days I don’t need the width of the Mantra 102s

It’s supposed to ski like a narrower Mantra, and the 102 combines those abilities you mention; seamlessy pivoting or smashing through bumps, and carving as hard as you like if wanted. The radius makes it pretty easy to avoid GS-speeds if you don’t want or need it. If you want it the 3D-radius helps you with that

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Originally Posted by Bandit Man

Which, if you disregard the M102 suggestion, brings us to that other Dynastar everyone is tired hearing about that has a “108” in its name.

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Presumably this meant to read the other “Volkl” ski.

I really want to try that and the Cochise as they seem they do everything in the chargy, carvy, crud, (kinda) surfy(?) and stability category. But what if the bias is towards bumps?

I absolutely love the m102 in A 184 but I’m not sure I would call it a mogul ski. Maybe if you mount 1cm forward.

I moved to it from the OG 180 bonafide (and even the 187 bonafide) because I wanted something less pivoty/surfy. While the 180 felt a little too pivoty (for me), it in reality was very well composed in spite of its (lack of) length and a really fun ski in almost any condition. Plenty of metal in that ski to hold up in the crud.

So…while I also initially read your post as a unicorn request…I actually think based on my experience and your preference to bias toward bumps, the 180 bone might be exactly what you’re looking for. My only question is your 200#. I’m 6’ 185# so maybe it’s just right. Worth a try IMO.

I have no experience with the ski but based on what I’ve seen out of a friend riding around on commanders, it also came to mind as an option to check out given your ideals…seems that tracks with conventional wisdom here…




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New Rossi sender 104. Very underrated ski. I wasn’t really aware of them till our rep dropped some off for us to try. It rips. I’m a faster, directional type but never really liked the m102 for some reason. The sender 104 felt way more intuitive and fun while still being able to charge and hold a great edge.

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

Hmm, good points all. I suppose the “want it all” stems a little bit from the way I feel about my Quixotes. They charge hard, bust through crud, can lay an edge, and smear/pivot/shut down on command and let me slink through bigger soft bumps. Definitely not “dead feeling”

I suppose I’m looking for a narrower version of that, with some metal (presumably), that carves better on hardpack (medium-small radius turns perhaps) and is a lot less work in harder/tighter bumps than the 118mm Q waist.

I maybe should have prefaced that I probably place more emphasis on mogul performance than carving hard on ice and hardpack. I won’t be laying any GS turns down. Although want something damp and heavy enough that it doesn’t get deflected much in the chunder we get here.

I’m 5’10 200 lbs these days, I skiing pretty fast this season. Definitely more of a power than finesse skier.

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Ok, this makes more sense. I have the Q 188 4 flex Enduro core.w veneer tops. Agree with your description of it, but while an incredible carver for 118 underfoot (due to the long inside edge w minimal taper compared to the tapered asym outside edge ) and very stable through crud, it doesn't have the dampness or true edgehold of a true laminate charger like the Cochise and such, and is a bear in frimer larger bumps or very firm set up snow due to the width.

I'm also looking for a similar ski in a more manageable width for travel without new storms on the horizon and EC fresh but shallow days in trees and bumps with the inevitable firmer hardpack The Enforcer 94 rails hardpack , is decent in bumps provided you stay off the tail , and can release from a carved turn on hardpack just fine, but is a totally different feeling ski navigating shallow pow and bumps / tight trees. Once its in the snow it's a lot more work to whip the tail around in tighter spots, and generally more work in 3d snow, although it is capable with an older more active unweighting style.

Based on what you are saying , I don't think you are looking for a Cochise. I haven't skied the newer Mantras so don't know how they do in bumps an tighter terrain. I'm struggling with looking for a similar.ski, bc what I found that fits this bill is generally the 105-110 widths, but since the Q is so good in any measurable fresh over a few.inches, I don't know how often I would need that width, but it's hard to get the maneuverability off piste with the narrower heavier bottom feeders.

Demoed a few at Jackson in a couple fresh inches over a soft base when my bag was delayed. Thought I would like the Mfree 108, it was fine but a little less stable on groomers and more truly soft snow biased than I wanted. The Rustler 11 was pretty solid for this but wider and a touch softer than I wanted , never tried a 10 but heard it's way softer less stable . The mythical R10.5 would probably be great, but doesn't exist.

Skis I want to try for this tweener slot; stable lower tide ski that can rail groomers and be fairly quick in tighter spots

Nordica Unleashed 108
Black Crowes Corvus (although I generally don't want full rev camber, have found the.lack.of camber in bigger skis to feel very harsh on bumps and ruts right underfoot w/o the camber to absorb some.imoact)
Maybe a E104 free but I think lots of overlap e the E94 despite the way looser tail.

Maybe Praxis.MVP108 but that may be too soft snow biased.

Movement DW 104.

This list may not make sense but there you go.

I know it doesn’t get love here but the 188 QST 106 of the last generation. Way more chargey than this generation. Surprisingly surfy, I found them very stable, can tail turns on them. I mounted a cm back.

My Corvus are a close match to what you’re saying but not nearly as surfy. The feel more powerful but in reality you can charge just as hard through chop. The Corvus is more fun to carve. Since you said hardback, I guess this is a surfy ski for how well it carves.

My take is you can’t have it all. A one ski quiver needs to surf for me. The Corvus doesn’t really surf, the qst106 does. You can tail turns on groomers on hojis fwiw

I have the 180cm Bonafides the red ones I think OG when they were still 98 underfoot and stiff. I bought them for a low tide Tahoe ski specifically for firm snow. They worked well. Fine in bumps as long as you stay off the tails. Can make short turns. Stable and damp for the length. Shut downable, but i would not call them pivoty.

At 5'9" they have always felt a littje short to me; would have preferred 184 or so. 188 would have been too long for my purposes. I rarely ski them anymor, living in the east as I've been playing around with the quiver more and skiing less (kids.) Firm snow here rewards a narrower ski for quicker edge to edge making the bonafides feel a little more like a 4x4 vs a dirtbike.

While they ski corn and slush/mash bumps fine, I'm sure there are more surfy and playful skiis for those conditions, that still hookup on firm.

Fwiw. Not sure this really helps or is even accurate since the last time I skiied the bones was twice last winter.

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Originally Posted by Bandit Man

OG Cochise is a really good option.

Enforcer 110 is fine if you are lighter, but it’s not a true charger IMO, especially if you are heavier. Skied the 191 for two years. Great on groomers and very loose, especially in fresh snow. They just didn’t have enough backbone in crud and variable, at least not for me. But, a lighter weight skier may see it differently.

Regarding the E104, it’s another close option, but it’s not loose and smeary.

I have limited time on MFree99, it certainly is loose and does surprisingly well on soft groomers, but it’s no charger.

Which, if you disregard the M102 suggestion, brings us to that other Dynastar everyone is tired hearing about that has a “108” in its name.

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It is very funny how we all discuss skis without much variable because height, weight and where we ski play a massive role. Some skis change flex and weight based on size, others not as much. At 6' 155 (wet), I find the 185 E110 to be a very stable, stiff and chargeable ski. I couldn't imagine going heavier or stiffer. If anything. It's a tad heavy and not quite as loose as I'd like, but it makes up for that with hard snow performance. It's probably the only ski (at +1) that I've skied that could be a single quiver ski, for me (and that's saying a lot). I could give up some hard snow performance and trade it for surfiness by going with the M-Free 108, but as has been covered, there's always a compromise.

As for ski width, different years require different skis. I lived on 100's last year (Bent Chetler's at +3), but have only ridden my 100's twice this year (4FRNT Switch). I started the year on SFB's and have been riding the E110's for the last month (wildly different skis).

I'm already on the lookout for next year's skis (186 Devastator???).

Anyhow, a big part of the fun of skiing is trying new gear (for me, anyway).

Oh, we didn't even start talking about tunes....

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Originally Posted by Duffman

Ok, this makes more sense. I have the Q 188 4 flex Enduro core.w veneer tops. Agree with your description of it, but while an incredible carver for 118 underfoot (due to the long inside edge w minimal taper compared to the tapered asym outside edge ) and very stable through crud, it doesn't have the dampness or true edgehold of a true laminate charger like the Cochise and such, and is a bear in frimer larger bumps or very firm set up snow due to the width.

I'm also looking for a similar ski in a more manageable width for travel without new storms on the horizon and EC fresh but shallow days in trees and bumps with the inevitable firmer hardpack The Enforcer 94 rails hardpack , is decent in bumps provided you stay off the tail , and can release from a carved turn on hardpack just fine, but is a totally different feeling ski navigating shallow pow and bumps / tight trees. Once its in the snow it's a lot more work to whip the tail around in tighter spots, and generally more work in 3d snow, although it is capable with an older more active unweighting style.

Based on what you are saying , I don't think you are looking for a Cochise. I haven't skied the newer Mantras so don't know how they do in bumps an tighter terrain. I'm struggling with looking for a similar.ski, bc what I found that fits this bill is generally the 105-110 widths, but since the Q is so good in any measurable fresh over a few.inches, I don't know how often I would need that width, but it's hard to get the maneuverability off piste with the narrower heavier bottom feeders.

Demoed a few at Jackson in a couple fresh inches over a soft base when my bag was delayed. Thought I would like the Mfree 108, it was fine but a little less stable on groomers and more truly soft snow biased than I wanted. The Rustler 11 was pretty solid for this but wider and a touch softer than I wanted , never tried a 10 but heard it's way softer less stable . The mythical R10.5 would probably be great, but doesn't exist.

Skis I want to try for this tweener slot; stable lower tide ski that can rail groomers and be fairly quick in tighter spots

Nordica Unleashed 108
Black Crowes Corvus (although I generally don't want full rev camber, have found the.lack.of camber in bigger skis to feel very harsh on bumps and ruts right underfoot w/o the camber to absorb some.imoact)
Maybe a E104 free but I think lots of overlap e the E94 despite the way looser tail.

Maybe Praxis.MVP108 but that may be too soft snow biased.

Movement DW 104.

This list may not make sense but there you go.

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The E104/110/115 play like different skis from their flat tail cousins. IMO, its strange that the share the Enforcer name across the line.

I've had the E104 for 3.5 seasons and really like them, skiing primarily in Tahoe and Mammoth. At 5'11", 160lbs, I wouldn't call the 186 E104 a charger, but I very rarely hit the speed limit on them (and never on groomers), and they're pretty surfy and maneuverable in tighter terrain. Due to the metal and moderate flex, they are quite damp, while still being fun to bend into shorter turns on groomers.

All that said, I got some 184 Deathwish 112s last spring and have barely used the E104s this season. The E104s are definitely damper and have a slightly higher speed limit, but I personally prefer how the Deathwish are looser both on hardpack and any sort of soft snow, especially pow and deep spring slush. If I need some edge grip, the Deathwish can still provide it. In true bulletproof snow, the damping of the E104s with their metal is nice, but everywhere else, I prefer the Deathwish.

I'd love to check out the Deathwish 104 at some point, as they're likely an even better ski for this use.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Damp, chargey, hardpack and surfey don’t coexist.
Damp, chargey, harpack, lots of options.
Damp, surfey, chargey, options there.
All of those combined? Nope.
Nothing that’s going to charge hard pack is going to surf well or at all.

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ON3P Wrenegade 102ti

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Originally Posted by sf

Since you asked for 80-100mm suggestions I’ll throw in the Kendo 88.

Haven’t skied it myself, but will pick it up for use on those days I don’t need the width of the Mantra 102s

It’s supposed to ski like a narrower Mantra, and the 102 combines those abilities you mention; seamlessy pivoting or smashing through bumps, and carving as hard as you like if wanted. The radius makes it pretty easy to avoid GS-speeds if you don’t want or need it. If you want it the 3D-radius helps you with that

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Does the M6 ski like a narrower M102 as well? The Blister review seemed to talk about it that way.

Skis I’d consider for this quiver slot: kastle BMX 105 HP, Nordica Enforcer 93/Unleashed? Bonafide, Stockli SR 95/102, faction CT 2.0?

I am usually on a Brahma 88 for this option, but I think most people would do better on a slightly wider ski.

There’s actually a demo day at coming up so I’m going to try and get out on a few skis and see what I like best: current order I’m thinking of:

-Mantra M6 184cm
-Kendo 88 184cm
-Mantra 102 177 or 184cm depending how I like the others
-Bonafide 183cm
-Sender 94 Ti 178cm
-Sender Black Ops 98 182cm

Not sure I’ll be able to get to all of them but we’ll see


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“So I’m looking for a damp ski that likes to go fast and can cut through heavy Sierra snow (springtime especially). Stability at high speeds on groomers needed, but the ability to make quick turns and more importantly, smear and pivot quickly is also a must (with good form and driving the tips). These will be used a lot in soft bumps, which I tend to surf/slide through”

Based on this I’d also recommend the K2 Mindbender 108 or even 99

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Originally Posted by Brewski2

So I’m looking for a damp ski that likes to go fast and can cut through heavy Sierra snow (springtime especially). Stability at high speeds on groomers needed, but the ability to make quick turns and more importantly, smear and pivot quickly is also a must (with good form and driving the tips). These will be used a lot in soft bumps, which I tend to surf/slide through

Based on this I’d also recommend the K2 Mindbender 108 or even 99

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JSkis Hotshot, Masterblaster, or Fastforward absolutely fit this profile. Awesome top sheets/graphics that are made by artists and made in Canada.

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

There’s actually a demo day at coming up so I’m going to try and get out on a few skis and see what I like best: current order I’m thinking of:

-Mantra M6 184cm
-Kendo 88 184cm
-Mantra 102 177 or 184cm depending how I like the others
-Bonafide 183cm
-Sender 94 Ti 178cm
-Sender Black Ops 98 182cm

Not sure I’ll be able to get to all of them but we’ll see


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I don’t know anything specific about the m6, but there are comparisons in the 102-thread.

At your weight I would not consider the 177, the 184 will be fine. It’s not demanding, just gives back what you put into it.

On the other hand the 177 will probably handle you fine, if you want very nimble

The old Fischer Ranger 102FR mounted at +3CM (-7 from center) was the absolute best combination of chargey, damp and great at carving but also surfey/pivoty when needed. I have yet to demo a ski that even comes close to replicating what it could do.

Those things in the right hands were so fun and energetic when pushed hard. My beloved pair has been converted to rock skis at this point with all the abuse but if you can find a decent used pair I wouldn't hesitate.

The new version sucks and has a soft tip that folds pretty easy - beware!

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Originally Posted by RadSkier_

The old Fischer Ranger 102FR mounted at +3CM (-7 from center) was the absolute best combination of chargey, damp and great at carving but also surfey/pivoty when needed. I have yet to demo a ski that even comes close to replicating what it could do.

Those things in the right hands were so fun and energetic when pushed hard. My beloved pair has been converted to rock skis at this point with all the abuse but if you can find a decent used pair I wouldn't hesitate.

The new version sucks and has a soft tip that folds pretty easy - beware!

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Do you know what year your pair are and/or when they made the change?

Re mantra 102 177cm vs 184cm, seems like people tend to say they are more chargey than the M6 or possibly kendo, so the shorter length could be a balance there. More aggressive ski but in a shorter length to be able to manhandle

While I love all my 189-191cm powder skis, in more variable snow and hardpack on the second half of Pow days I sometimes feel like I’d probably be a better skier/more in control with shorter skis. Hence why I like my 182cm Quixotes in variable and lower tide days

That being said, I’ve also felt like the 184cm piste jibs don’t have enough tip in front of me or stiffness for my weight. Especially when I’m pushing the more out of shape weight range I can hit (210+ lbs)

2021 is the last year they made them. The slightly skinnier version of that ski (the 94FR) is available for a sweet deal online right now. Ugly colors but amazing ski - check out the blister review!

https://www.sapvelogare.com/en/range...-freeride.html

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Originally Posted by hardboiled

I think the OG Cochise has a reputation for doing what you want. I picked up a pair earlier this season but only skied em 1 day so far, but they rip and seem to fit the bill. Think there’s a pair in Gearswap right now too.

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I don't like how the OG's handle hard snow much. (But I'm a super-fan of the Cochise in general.)
The Cochise 106 fits that pretty well though, IMO.
Releases easier than the Carbon 108's but has WAY more chops when it's firm than the OG.
Any of the Cochises could do the job, but if I had to pick one for the whole day? The 106.
For the morning only? The Carbon 108's.
For the most fun in the afternoon? The OG's without any doubt.
:)