Same reason my daily driver isn't a Slalom ski. 'Coz I'm skiing in the West. 1/1 is fine for me in the West.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum
I learned how to ski on real ice back East, and if I still played around in those parts, I'd likely run 1/2.
Maybe I don't know what I'm missing ;-)
... Thom
Anymore 90% of my home tuning just involves knocking the burrs off the edge and a quick wax. That usually keeps me going long enough until I need a base grind anyway at which point they can fix the bevels for me then.
I just can't be arsed to futz around with a million different files and stones and whatever and I don't need an excuse to drink beer, I'm gonna do that anyway.
just watched half of the first video.... really good!!! thx for sharing. this guy has a great way of showing!Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
The reason for a base bevel is to keep people from catching their edges at the wrong time, skis too hooky, etc. I don't know why you'd be drifting your skis on hard snow, and on soft snow the edges don't matter, but if you are catching edges at 1 degree maybe the issue is technique. The reason not to go to 2 degrees is because if you do hit hard snow you're going to have a hard time edging.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
Several people have mentioned that you shouldn't touch the base edges after they have been set. The reason is that even if you stay at 1 degree, the more you sharpen the base edge, the farther into the ptex the bevel goes and the higher the edge is off the snow. The effect is the same as if you had set the base at 2 degrees or more--delayed engagement of the edges on a turn and the need to grind more base to get back to flat. I ruined a pair of (old) skis doing that before I learned.
i dont agree ... but i dont disagreeQuote:
Originally Posted by old goat
i have bad technique! but i know how to carve.
i loved my blizzard zerog 108 (og couchise shape) i got them back after first service with 0.5 base bevel and i did not like them anymore so i started adjusting at 1° it felt already good
i was curios and went to the shop and bought 1.5° guide and even liked it more
i can slarve now turns with it .... drifitng like a snowboarder
it is in control on hardpack and slush and yes in powder
for my brother i grinded 1° underfoot and 1.5° at the contact points in the taper
Seems slight, but oh yeah, the diff between a 0.5 and a 1.0 base bevel is very noticable in terms of the ski feeling "locked" in. This can be bad for skier devel so it was also recomended to keep even SL skis at a 1.0 base for kids thru age 12-13. Zero degree base can feel like the ski is railed.Quote:
Originally Posted by nordekette
Likewise, at least a few DH skiers like to run stuff 3 side and 2 base, as it (in theory) engages the edges even less and allows them to run a flat ski without hooking.
My kids coaches have us go .5 base and 3 side on both SL and GS skis
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Park City?Quote:
Originally Posted by detrusor
https://www.jans.com/alpine-racing-juniors-tuning
Quote:
Base GrindSkiing has a number of uncontrolled variables. Ski racers, in particular, are faced with a different course set every time, changing visibility and varying weather conditions such as wind and temperature. “It’s man against the mountain, so to speak,” reflects Jesse Hunt, Program Director and General Manager of the Park City Ski Team. “This can be challenging for an athlete and challenging for a parent.”
Which is why no racer is an island. To be successful, junior racers must rely on the expertise of their coaches and a reputable tuning shop to make sure their skis have the right grind for the snow conditions. More aggressive snow, either man-made or on the dry side, calls for a finer grind. Spring-like conditions demand more of an open grind. While the coaches can provide insight into specific grinds, most leave it up to the ski technicians working on their athlete’s skis to make the call. At Rennstall, we first evaluate the ski to determine the appropriate amount of pre-grinding needed. Since most are base high or edge high, our technicians remove trace amounts of material to true out the ski. Then we apply the finish grind with a finely dressed stone making it as smooth as possible. We’re big fans of the angular cross-hatch, which we consider to be our most versatile grind, since it works in a variety of snow conditions.
One final piece of grinding advice. It’s best not to take your skis in for a professional grind the day before a race. It changes the whole way the ski is going to ski. After a ski is freshly ground, it has a break-in period for a grind to become fast again. After about a week of good skiing and a lot of wax cycles, the ski regains its full glide potential.
Bevels
Side and base bevels for junior racers vary according to the athlete’s ability level and strength. For the youngest racers, bevels are usually set more conservatively. You want to give smaller kids more base bevel and a little less side edge since they don’t weigh as much.
He recommends a .7 to 1 degree base bevel for younger Slalom racers coupled with a 2 to 3 degree side bevel. For GS and Super G junior racers, Dewey recommends a 1 degree base bevel and a 2-3 degree side bevel. When kids graduate to the FIS level of racing, usually after age 15, the bevels change yet again. Slalom racers ski on a .5 degree base bevel while GS skiers race either a .5 or .7 degree base bevel. The speed demons of Super G and Downhill use a 1 degree base bevel. All FIS racers use at least a 3 degree side bevel.
So the question becomes – who sets the bevel on your kid’s skis? Younger racers and their parents should take their skis to professional tuners. Twelve to thirteen year olds willing to give hand beveling a try can do so knowing that Jans and Rennstall have their back. The same is true for older racers up to U21. Since tuning is an acquired skill, the ski techs at Rennstall are already familiar with all of the intricacies involved. We know that too much base bevel can make a ski feel passive, like you have to coax it into a turn. Or that too little base bevel can make skis twitchy, unpredictable and hard to slide. And as far as side bevels, too little means the racer will feel like he doesn’t have any grip on hard snow and ice. If any of these things happen to your skis, don’t try to correct it yourself. Take it to the race experts at Rennstall.
I’m no expert, but 0.5 on a kids GS ski sounds aggressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by detrusor
^^ somewhat agreed but definitely depends on the age and ability of the kid.
My kid did an almost controlled blind test earlier this week - she didnt know ahead of time what the differences were but ran two substantively similar SL skis with different base bevels back to back. Feedback was 0.75 “felt slower to engage and drifty at top of turn” and “had to ski a different line” than with 0.5 which she much preferred.
That said I’d never put 0.5 on my (or her) free skis.
Interesting too that during second Birds of Prey SG commentators noted that one of the Americans (I forget if it was RCS or Ganong) switched setup to a higher base beveled ski vs what he ran first day because they were edging too aggressively for snow condition.
Our girls coach wants me to run a fine diamond like a 400 or better a 600 lightly over the base edge after I sharpen/polish the side edges. This to get rid of any ridge that might form. I use the SVST 1 degree final cut base tool. Pretty slick once you get the feel of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
My daughter is 11 and so we are all one 1 degree base for every pair of skis. Side bevels vary depending on ski type. 3 for racing. 2 for Brahma thru 100 ish. 1 for pow boards.
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0.5 on slaloms for an older kid doesn’t seem crazy, but for GS it still sounds aggressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
But like I said, I’m no expert. I raced a few years back in high school, and at a low level. For perspective, my slalom skis were 203’s with probably a 60m radius. No experience racing on modern skis.
Yep, the Swix guy talks about that in one of the videos in that series linked above. Its to get rid of the ‘hanger’. Better yet do it between every progression of file/stones rather then just at end. On his recommendation I use a fine ceramic stone and just lightly freehand it which apparently folds it over but wont cut into edge at all like a diamond stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by uglymoney
Interesting. Thanks.
Woodworking peeps will go into a lot of detail about how to sharpen chisels, and basically what is happening is you start off with an aggressive cut to set the edge, but that leaves a large ‘hanging burr’ that you need to knock back from the other side, but you still have a rough edge, and that big burr will break off if left, so you progress through finer and finer grits, each time leaving smaller and smaller burrs until you have a nice refined edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
Point being, it’s best to knock off that burr on the base edge before moving to the next finer stone or you’re not really maximizing the work you’re doing by going through the stone progression.
Edit: I use my 1200 grit diamond stone to knock back the burr. Similar to a ceramic stone.
if have already written in here that i have no professional knowledge.
somebody told me the better a knife is grinded .... many passes of finish - the longer the sharpness lasts.
sounds logic to me the smoother the surface the better.
somebody before mentioned hardening the edge with diamond stone.
regarding the burr:
i can fell the burr on a freshly finished ski but after a couple of runs it disappears and the excitement is gone.
so i decided for me to fold the burr over and then vanish it with some old hard used sandpaper
the edge feels still sharp but doesnt get boring after 3runs with a "non fis race ski"
hey i am not talking about youth racing or anything just me trial and error
i can understand if you race one run and you want a certain feel this run....yes burr and everything
me carving and fooling around... different story
like a steep icy narrow couloir i dont need 0.5 degree a slow engaging edge helps alot smothing a bumpy ride.... so 1.5degree is an option too there
and my opinion for powder... base bevel matters ... side angle not so much
If you leave a burr, it’s like having a mini knife blade hanging off the bottom of the edge. It will feel like you have a super sharp edge with huge grip. But the burr is weak, so in very short time it will break off, and you’re left with a dull edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by nordekette
I don't undertand why people say that 1 and 1 is a standard bevel and that's how most skis come from the manufacturer. A quick scroll through the list of manufacturer recommended bevels shows that is clearly not the case. In fact, 1/1 (base, side) is relatively rare compared to 1/1.5, 1/2, 1/3, etc.
I believe (but someone please correct me if I’m wrong) that a 1/1 tune was pretty common from the factory for a long time, and the bigger edge angles are a more recent change (10 years? more?)Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
Taking skis to a shop where I grew up in the 90’s the default tune was 1/1 as well, and that was east coast.
Could just be people not keeping up with changing times?
I find I like more base bevel for wider skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by nordekette
I do this in large part because I think I recall Marshal posting that he runs 2 degrees on anything wiser than 120mm or something?
Just put a 1.5 on my candide 5.0... let's see if I die!
From what I read earlier in this thread, anything over 1 degree on the base is ‘almost impossible’ to get on edge… you’re going to die!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty_J
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty_J
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I've been running 3° sides on everything but my spats for ever. I do live on the EC. (Well, 2 on the OG cochise).
3 including my Praxis 9d8s (set by shop at my request and maintained by hand). I've been very happy with them that way as a DD.
Just got some new GPOs and thinking I need a new file guide.
Assuming I detune tips and tails, can I go with 2 or do I need to cave and buy a 1?
I have 2 degree side edges on my Rustler 11’s which I think are pretty similar to the GPO’s? I detune fairly heavily on the outside edges tip and tail since I was getting a bit of hooking, less detuning in the inside edges. I have no complaints with the 2 degree, but I don’t own a 1 degree guide - maybe I’m really missing out!Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPowHound