Ukraine

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Originally Posted by Yukonrider

Where I stand on the whole issue is that I don't condone Russia's actions, but I believe they are justifiable.

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How is this justifiable? This is Putin's project to restore the USSR to its previous glory by eliminating the idea of a Ukraine That's justifiable?

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And I generally like to highlight the glaring double standards that Americans ignore in regards to foreign countries flexing their muscles. We have fought (and lost) several unjust wars in the past decades. Our indignant response to Russia's actions is somewhat tone deaf to our own previous actions.

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So were U.S. previous actions similarly justifiable? Sounds like you're eating up the current right wing/Trump stream of crap that Republicans currently like. Go Russia! Go Putin! Go Erdogan! Let's get some of that action for ourselves--MAGA!

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Originally Posted by frorider

Nope I didn’t see that. Although I did read today about a shelling last week of a nursery in Donbas that was an attempted false flag.

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They blew up some politicians Lara as a false flag, but made sure they didn’t blow up his actual one.

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Originally Posted by Hood26

Attachment 407245I will flip over to Fox soon to see their RT influenced spin soon.

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You mean like this...

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Originally Posted by Yukonrider

Where I stand on the whole issue is that I don't condone Russia's actions, but I believe they are justifiable.

And I generally like to highlight the glaring double standards that Americans ignore in regards to foreign countries flexing their muscles. We have fought (and lost) several unjust wars in the past decades. Our indignant response to Russia's actions is somewhat tone deaf to our own previous actions.

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Child, you can say Russia invading is bad and the us invading was bad. It’s not a double standard. It’s not tone deaf. Tone deaf is “they are justified in their utterly manufacture war of choice”

Preet recorded a timely podcast yesterday. Good listen. Explains it all.

"Preet interviews Kimberly Marten, an international security expert and political science professor at Barnard College, Columbia University."

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Originally Posted by dunfree

They blew up some politicians Lara as a false flag, but made sure they didn’t blow up his actual one.

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Was that the one with a handful of journalists casually hanging around to watch the explosion?
There were pictures of Ukrainian shells that hadn't actually been fired as evidence Ukraine was shooting artillery at civilians a couple days ago.

"justifiable"?
wow
i'm gonna give you a bit of rope as not a fucking lunatic & guess what you think is justifiable isn't what Putin told Russians yesterday: it's a peacekeeping move to protect from genocide & nazification

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

I guess RU has Chernobyl now which is nice?

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Looking bad on the ground for the Ukrainians...
Russians seem to have been able to manoeuvre at will due the lack of mining, blowing up the bridges, staging proper air defence, full mobilisation and even leaving critical airfields to...wait for this...helicopter assault done in daylight.
Devastating if true. Had the Ukies managed to hold and bleed up ruskies for a week or two, things could have panned differently.
Now it is a real possibility that things will get steamrolled within days.
And that bodes bad for Europe/Rest of the world as Putin will continue the drive, emboldened by his success.

#damn

Man, there are some gross Putin simps in this thread. Unbelievable.

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Originally Posted by SoVT Joey

on top of that every conflict the USA has entered/started in the last 50 years has been left as a steaming pile of dogshit, worse off then the countries were before. Maybe the USA should start playing by the same rule book we like to write.

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Now you've gone to far. Headed for PA for surez

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

How is this justifiable? This is Putin's project to restore the USSR to its previous glory by eliminating the idea of a Ukraine That's justifiable?


So were U.S. previous actions similarly justifiable? Sounds like you're eating up the current right wing/Trump stream of crap that Republicans currently like. Go Russia! Go Putin! Go Erdogan! Let's get some of that action for ourselves--MAGA!

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Justified to halt NATOs expansion into what is basically a Suburb of Moscow. An organization built on hate and marginalization of Russia.

No. I am not a right winger, and am actually completely unaware of what the Fox talking heads are saying about this, but unfortunately it seems that my views align with theirs.

It seems Russians are protesting this stupidity... maybe a glimmer of hope for the world.

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Originally Posted by Yukonrider

Justified to halt NATOs expansion into what is basically a Suburb of Moscow. An organization built on hate and marginalization of Russia.

No. I am not a right winger, and am actually completely unaware of what the Fox talking heads are saying about this, but unfortunately it seems that my views align with theirs.

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You are ignoring the desires of everyday Ukrainians who have made it clear they do not want to align with RUS and want to be closer to the EU.

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Originally Posted by Eluder

It seems Russians are protesting this stupidity... maybe a glimmer of hope for the world.

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Not for long……


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by Eluder

It seems Russians are protesting this stupidity... maybe a glimmer of hope for the world.

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ime, Moscow and St Pete are relatively liberal .. but out in the sticks, a lot of Russians long for the 'good ol days.' But I'll be interested to get a read on the citizens' perceptions.

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

"justifiable"?
wow
i'm gonna give you a bit of rope as not a fucking lunatic & guess what you think is justifiable isn't what Putin told Russians yesterday: it's a peacekeeping move to protect from genocide & nazification

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No, those are just political talking points. Same as "There ARE weapons of mass destruction in this country" (I cant remember the quote at this time, sorry).


I can't speak to his aims, but a buffer between Moscow and NATO for sure with a bonus resource grab are my guess.

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Originally Posted by Yukonrider

<snip>
I can't speak to his aims, but a buffer between Moscow and NATO for sure with a bonus resource grab are my guess.

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Neither of which are "justifiable"... :nonono2:

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Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

You are ignoring the desires of everyday Ukrainians who have made it clear they do not want to align with RUS and want to be closer to the EU.

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He's completely out of his depth and spouting nonsense. Maybe spending some time in a once USSR occupied nation would help enlighten but the brain worms are probably too far in.

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Neither of which are "justifiable"... :nonono2:

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America invaded and occupied an entire country because a guy that maybe lived there executed an attack against us. How was that justifiable?

I’ll be curious to find out what appeasement or non-moves the US, EU and NATO should have made to prevent this war. From my perspective Putin would have done the same or worse. The guy routinely used chemical weapons in other countries to eliminate his opponents among advances in other countries with basically no consequences.

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Originally Posted by Yukonrider

America invaded and occupied an entire country because a guy that maybe lived there executed an attack against us. How was that justifiable?

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It’s not and I protested that and Iraq.

Two wrongs (three) don’t make a right.

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Originally Posted by CarlMega

He's completely out of his depth and spouting nonsense. Maybe spending some time in a once USSR occupied nation would help enlighten but the brain worms are probably too far in.

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I've actually spent time in Russian and several former USSR states. The collapse of the Soviet Union did no favors for that part of the world.

But what is the answer then? To have the Russians bow down and kiss our boots like the Germans and the Japanese? Will we do that to China?

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Originally Posted by Yukonrider

I've actually spent time in Russian and several former USSR states. The collapse of the Soviet Union did no favors for that part of the world.

But what is the answer then? To have the Russians bow down and kiss our boots like the Germans and the Japanese? Will we do that to China?

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The semi obvious thing is that they could offer favorable and desirable political, military and trade alliances to countries they want in their sphere of influence instead of violently overthrowing them.

(Yeah, yeah, same thing goes for the US. See our and Chinas exercise of soft power across the planet.)

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Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

It’s not and I protested that and Iraq.

Two wrongs (three) don’t make a right.

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And again, I in no way condone these attacks, nor do I think the Ukrainian people will be better off for them.

But if we fail to see how the actions of the west directly contributed to this war then we will be unable to choose a path forward which prevents or mitigates events like this in the future.

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Originally Posted by Yukonrider

And again, I in no way condone these attacks, nor do I think the Ukrainian people will be better off for them.

But if we fail to see how the actions of the west directly contributed to this war then we will be unable to choose a path forward which prevents or mitigates events like this in the future.

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Then you should stop using the word “justified” because Putins actions are not justifiable. Just like the invasion of Iraq is not justifiable.