Interesting way to think about boot fit

From another thread-
Tom - what are the Cortex fit like? Pronated vs supinated?

I find this interesting- in another thread

Originally Posted by jacob_dbu View Post
Wow lotta double boa up in here. And LV boa boots are going to be super welcome addition. Tom - what are the Cortex fit like? Pronated vs supinated? Cuff sizing?


IME/O-

Pronated>—————————————� �———————————>Supinated

Nordica. Atomic Lange Tecnica

To me things that make a boot pronated are- more volume on lateral side of forefoot than medial, more medial malleolus, navicular room. more medial flex tracking.

What are others thoughts?

shouldn't we be correcting for pronation, or supination, to get the ankle neutral, and that will allow it to sit in the middle of the boot anyways?

Or if you need more room in a shell, on medial, or lateral side, then that is what boot fitters are for?

I duno if boot makers make a shell that way, don't they just make a neutral shell and let the end loser deal with it ?

For my flatter-than-piss-on-a-plate foot the foot bed be it custom or off the shelf is what centers the foot/ shin in the shell, its what makes the fit right,

I was worried back in the day cuz my Mercury's didnt have a cuff cant adj. but with the right foot bed it all lined up and worked great

Tom did respond and basically said boots don’t work this way.

“The pronated vs supinated comment was interesting as that is not how boots are made. I wondered if perhaps that was referring to built in sole canting which some race boots do employ?”

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Originally Posted by mntlion

shouldn't we be correcting for pronation, or supination, to get the ankle neutral, and that will allow it to sit in the middle of the boot anyways?

Or if you need more room in a shell, on medial, or lateral side, then that is what boot fitters are for?

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I don’t think correcting completely for pronation/supination Is achievable or a goal to be attained. Especially with some feet. Reducing it some yes. Some of it needs accommodation and I think some brands in general work better for certain foot types

Even with an ankle in neutral position, you will have to correct canting. They are separate adjustments.

Maybe Tom means that boot boards are always parallel to boot soles and therefore they aren’t canted.

I think space in the boot and cuff angles can affect canting, especially on a touring boot where they may not be able to be fully adjusted.

Picture the following boot shapes. Although technically not canted, they will definitely give the impression of being canted and affect how the ski sits on the snow. They are all right feet, looking at the front of the boot. Attachment 508746

You guys are so much deeper into the weeds on this stuff than the average skier. I think it's great. I wonder how many boot shops even really know what's going on there and can make the adjustments needed. Let alone, end users that buy a boot that "fits."

I Think that most skier are in boots too big, and are just having fun, and dont want to, or need to put the time in to make it better.

Think coffee, it can be black liquid that is warm and wakes you up, or can be a full nerd dive into grinds, and roasts, and pressures.. Its all just magic wake up juice in the end, and you can go as deep as you (or the customer) wants too

^^^Dude, you must be referring to American coffee and skiing in boots too big.

That makes a whole lotta sense! Thanks for yer wisdom! :D

(But I get your message and there's credit to it)

Actually, that statement reminded me of the (ancient) Monty Python sketch; What's the resemblance between makin love in a canoe and American beer? It's fukkin close to water

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

You guys are so much deeper into the weeds on this stuff than the average skier. I think it's great. I wonder how many boot shops even really know what's going on there and can make the adjustments needed. Let alone, end users that buy a boot that "fits."

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It’s important to remember you’re talking to a bunch of bootfitters.

There used to be a lot of threads on tech talk where buddy buys a stiff happening fast looking boot on-line for cheap, its uncomfortable so he spends time & money on a bootfitter, asks a bunch of questions on tech talk, sells the boot on-line it at end of season and does it all again the next year with the same result

whereas buddy could have just asked his local bootfitter " what boot ?" it would have been net cheaper and not as painful,

so thats what i do ask what boot for this foot and its been working

I sucessfully bought Mercury/ Vulcan on-line but I asked a lot of questions on tech talk & I was lucky

I think people buy boots based on color and various accoutrements, a splash of chrome or some flourescent hi vis

So I submit it would make it easier for boot fitters if all the boot companies agreed to make all ski boots the same color ?

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Even with an ankle in neutral position, you will have to correct canting. They are separate adjustments.

Maybe Tom means that boot boards are always parallel to boot soles and therefore they aren’t canted.

I think space in the boot and cuff angles can affect canting, especially on a touring boot where they may not be able to be fully adjusted.

Picture the following boot shapes. Although technically not canted, they will definitely give the impression of being canted and affect how the ski sits on the snow. They are all right feet, looking at the front of the boot. Attachment 508746

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Damn. I never even thought that cuff alignment could be different between different brands.

Does a particular brand tend to have laterally - angled cuff alignment of their touring boots? Guessing Dynafit from your advanced rendering?

Edit: backwards interpretation of Advanced Rendering.

Yeah, I’d say that older Dynafit had a laterally shifted cuff alignment. Something about the shift alpha feels like it too. It hurt my knees just standing in it and also made it feel like I would roll my ankle.

My hoji 130 didn't have cuff adjustment, so during heating the liner i put spacers on the top of the liner and it worked great.

Btw, wtf did dynafit stopped making the best boot they ever had?


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When Dynafit are not making a product that is a dog so you don't care ^^ thats what they do is change stuff pretty fast , but they had to keep making the Vulcan for years after the product was done because they blew it on their big boot ( beast and then Khion ) twice in a row and had to sell something

don't get me started on exploding Rad1 heel pieces and the shitty Palau liners

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Yeah, I’d say that older Dynafit had a laterally shifted cuff alignment. Something about the shift alpha feels like it too. It hurt my knees just standing in it and also made it feel like I would roll my ankle.

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Huh I never thought about this. I'm sensitive to cuff alignment and would prefer boots with that lateral shift in the absence of cuff adjustment!

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

When Dynafit are not making a product that is a dog so you don't care ^^ thats what they do is change stuff pretty fast , but they had to keep making the Vulcan for years after the product was done because they blew it on their big boot ( beast and then Khion ) twice in a row and had to sell something

don't get me started on exploding Rad1 heel pieces and the shitty Palau liners

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Got any stories about products that are <10 years old Gramps?

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Originally Posted by abraham

Got any stories about products that are <10 years old Gramps?

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I wonder sometimes why the rest home hasn’t taken the keyboard away from him.

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Originally Posted by abraham

Got any stories about products that are <10 years old Gramps?

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well there was that one time some of us at the retirement home gang banged your mom, she was pretty sloppy but she really liked the old cock cuz it lasted longer than them 2 stroke kids ?

eh

I stole this comment from someone else talking about how Atomic and Nordica fits are "pronated" and Tecnica is "supinated". I think the original comment gets to what I'm going for, more space in the navicular, more space on the 6th toe, vs. a supinated foot which would need more vertical space in the toebox and above the arch.

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Originally Posted by mntlion

shouldn't we be correcting for pronation, or supination, to get the ankle neutral,

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I disagree. Trying to limit pronation with a good insole is OK, but there really is no comfortable way to “correct.”

The boot shell, liner and insole should be modified to accommodate for the skiers biomechanics. Bootfitters shouldn’t be manipulating the skiers foot architecture to accommodate the shell.

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Originally Posted by One (+) Sentence

I disagree. Trying to limit pronation with a good insole is OK, but there really is no comfortable way to “correct.”

The boot shell, liner and insole should be modified to accommodate for the skiers biomechanics. Bootfitters shouldn’t be manipulating the skiers foot architecture to accommodate the shell.

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I’ve thrown two sets of custom foot beds in the trash due to bootfitters trying to “fix” my over pronation. Some arch support is great but I don’t do any other activities with that level of correction and it ultimately results in a footbed that feels like I’m standing on a baseball and drives serious 5th methead pain because the outside of my foot is not used to that type of pressure.

Just let me sit flat in the boot with a little arch support.

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Originally Posted by TAFKALVS

I’ve thrown two sets of custom foot beds in the trash due to bootfitters trying to “fix” my over pronation. Some arch support is great but I don’t do any other activities with that level of correction and it ultimately results in a footbed that feels like I’m standing on a baseball and drives serious 5th methead pain because the outside of my foot is not used to that type of pressure.

Just let me sit flat in the boot with a little arch support.

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You got it…