Grand Traverse... What have I gotten myself into?

So I finally pulled the trigger on a Grand Traverse registration this year. Won't be racing to place high, just going out with a goal of finishing. I have extensive backcountry experience, but most of the tours have been to score good snow and rip fun lines. A few endurance events, but nothing much beyond half marathons. Certainly never anything approaching the 12+ hour sufferfest that is the GT.

While I feel relatively confident in physical ability if I can sustain a training plan over the next few months, I'm a little unsure of how to approach this from a gear perspective. Current setup is geared more towards the down than the up, so I'm guessing I've got to look into a smaller/lighter setup for the race. I imagine getting it done on a traditional AT setup is doable, but not recommended?

Looking for some advice on how to plan for this... Do I need to go ultralight everything or are there certain pieces of gear (boots being the obvious answer) that may help this experience suck just a little bit less?

Any other tips and tricks from those that have completed the race?

https://c.tenor.com/IpJfF6YbjrEAAAAC...an-gandalf.gif

Haven't done it, don't want to. But yeah, you'll want a setup just for this to make it more enjoyable. I never see anyone on setups that look fun to ski. There aren't many turns to be had other than off Star Pass.

I've run aid stations and have a lot of friends who've done it over the years.

You see young tough guys doing it on 1500-2000g skis, 500g bindings and midweight boots, but a vast majority have gone at least sub-1200g ski, sub-300g and sub-1200g boots (with many in full skimo setups). I think you need to weigh your ability to train/prepare and thus use heavier gear vs the desire to finish and finish happily. If you can't stack the bricks to have a big day on heavier gear, I'd find a way to save weight.

I'd go light on the boots and look to ideally borrow a light ski setup for game day (ie a skimo friend's older setup). That's what a few buddies have done.

Work on transitions, dial in the nutrition are two other biggies.

^^
Totally agree. You’ll just be skiing Spar at the end. Not like the Power of Four were your skiing Bingo Glades.

Hopefully they finish at 1A again this year.
If they do, I’ve got a big hot tub for you!

nice one ronmex! my wife and I are signed up too.

i raced it in tlt6's and 93 underfoot light-ish skis in 2016 and wouldn't do that again. slogging for 8 hours rather than 10 hours is well worth it in my mind. i'll be taking aliens and skinny skis this year for sure.

my gear beta: whatever setup you use, bring at least 2 pairs of skins and at least 1 with a tail clip. i saw so many people dealing with skin glue failures, especially those with pure race-style skins.

Check these out:

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/333004-Grand-Traverse-2020?highlight=grand+traverse

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...grand+traverse

Just read this: https://markbillie.blogspot.com/2019...erse-2019.html

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Originally Posted by CMartin348

Just read this: https://markbillie.blogspot.com/2019...erse-2019.html

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Lost me at:

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WARNING: Long, mostly words, about a nordic/skimo race. Read at your own risk of boredom, irritation and displeasure.

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Originally Posted by CMartin348

Just read this: https://markbillie.blogspot.com/2019...erse-2019.html

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That's a mag, in case anyone was wondering.

Geez, around here that is just skiing from Teton Valley to Teton Valley, and vise-versa.
Which, btw, is pretty badass.

https://cripplecreekbc.com/products/...caAtzREALw_wcB

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Have a couple buddies who are in just your spot....they tried to rope me in but I connected the two who wanted to do it rather than submit myself to the pain.

May try to volunteer at an aid station just to admire those who chose such an adventure.

I occasionally think about attempting it one of these years. I've worked an aid station a few times and have a ton of friends that have done it, including that nutcase with a blog upthread. One piece of advice I've heard that may be obvious, is if you aren't pretty comfortable in the dark and extreme cold, build that into your training. Starting in the dark and going through the night is something a lot of folks don't have much experience with.

As far as gear, go light, there isn't much in the way of real skiing. Good luck and have fun!

I did it last year. I have done the Leadville 100 on a bike in pretty decent time, and a lot of other endurance cycling events. GT was way TF harder than Leadville.

It is mostly flat, the one real climb up Starr pass isn’t that bad honestly. It’s the grind of it that’s the hard part. I would get a full on skimo setup, with an Alien RS or other similar boot if you don’t wanna drop coin on a full race boot.

I would train as specifically as possible - LONG flattish sufferfests.

It’s cold as fuck. Get your layers, and especially hydration dialed early in the season. Camelbacks will freeze and leave you stranded. Rotating soft flasks seems to be the way to go…

Good luck! It is a really hard race.
I’d go to Aspen and run the last 6 miles of the course ahead of time as it is pretty hard to get a good impression based on elevation profiles.


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It’s been a few years now but I’ve done it several times, 5 maybe 6 but I’d have to go count the t-shirts to check. And have buddies who have done many more than I.
Gear wise think light, and then go even lighter - full skimo race setup is the ticket.
Honestly can’t imagine doing it in regular weight touring gear - sure it can be done if you’re strong or masochistic but I’d see a bunch of people with that stuff at start in CB and not many at finish in Aspen cos they give up or don’t make the cutoffs. Trying that just sounds like turning a sufferfest into a truly horrible miserable never to be repeated sufferfest. Richmond ridge has got to be soul crushing in heavier gear later in the heat of the day.
As others have said going full gas at midnight is a challenge if you haven’t done it before but most important is probably just getting miles in training, pacing and dialing in nutrition and hydration strategy

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Originally Posted by CMartin348

Just read this: https://markbillie.blogspot.com/2019...erse-2019.html

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Originally Posted by Full Trucker

Lost me at: WARNING: Long, mostly words, about a nordic/skimo race. Read at your own risk of boredom, irritation and displeasure.

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Here's the executive summary at the very end (after finishing almost exactly 100% off from the winning time):

"I can't really say I recommend the race. There's almost nothing that you could honestly describe as "skiing," no less "backcountry skiing." It's the worst walk/ski ratio of anything I've ever done. In a bad year, you might have to run some of the course. You might get "reversed" into finishing at Crested Butte. It's a logistical nightmare no matter what the course looks like. You will probably need to buy a bunch of gear you'll never use. But there is something about it..."

EMGT was originally a nordic backcountry race. Still is for the course layout, but given that nordic backcountry race gear never became a thing, and given that skimo race gear evolved rapidly, the race is now always won by skimo racers on skimo race gear, although some nordic racers on modified nordic race gear sometimes do very well.

Given that the West has so many amazing skimo races (e.g., Powderkeg, Power of Four), I'm always baffled at the popularity of the EMGT, but I suppose it's become one of those bucket list things, and it also appeals to aerobic endurance athletes who aren't very good downhill skiers (who are a far larger component of the western skimo race fields as opposed to eastern).

Thanks everybody for all the great info. Will definitely look into a new setup, but probably (out of stubbornness) will end up going a little heavier than full skimo so that I can at least use it occasionally outside of this race.

How many transitions would you say there are in a typical year? Other than the obvious ones at the top of Star Pass and Aspen Mountain, any others where it’s clearly better to rip skins and ski/skate?

Also, any recommendations on good training routes relatively close to the front range? As I said earlier, most of my objectives focus on the down or are at the ski resorts just to get some exercise. All of those have less distance and more vert. Would love some tips on where I can get more miles with less vert.


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https://cripplecreekbc.com/blogs/bac...lorado-classic

traverse from top of berthoud to WP?

I find i can log a bunch of miles at allenspark, but fair amount of vert.

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Originally Posted by RonMexico

Also, any recommendations on good training routes relatively close to the front range? As I said earlier, most of my objectives focus on the down or are at the ski resorts just to get some exercise. All of those have less distance and more vert. Would love some tips on where I can get more miles with less vert.

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Trail Ridge road could be good if you want to pick a distance and turn off your brain.

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Originally Posted by CMartin348

Just read this: https://markbillie.blogspot.com/2019...erse-2019.html

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Good read, thank you.

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By this time in the race, there was no rhyme or reason to who was where. At the pre-race meeting I had assumed that the folks with PDGs or Aliens, 65mm skimo skis and spandex suits would all destroy us, but this was not the case. I started silently congratulating myself "ha, passed another spandex!" whenever we'd slowly amble past one of these folks. But then someone would come along on Coomback 114s or something and waltz right past us, sending me into despair. At one point a team on Kingpins had briefly passed us, which was almost too much to endure, though we somewhat quickly overtook them again. I think anyway; maybe they finished ahead of us. It was hard to say. The whole thing was like a slow, snowy imitation of the Mint 400 race from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas; it was an "Endurance Contest."

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Bumping this thread because I signed up for the GT with a high school friend this year. We did power of four last year and I realize this is a very different race.

Looking for any and all advice, but have two more specific questions:

1. Reasonable backpack size to carry all the crap you need to lug with you? Any recommendations?

2. I've got a blacklight pro + trab gara that I think will be a decent setup for this, but I'm a little worried about boots. Getting light boots that fit my feet has been a struggle. My light boots are zero g peaks which walk well but are nowhere near skimo boots. Trouble is I would need to punch the hell out of a skimo boot to make it fit my feet, which kind of rules out renting or borrowing, and even buying since most are so difficult to punch. Will I hate myself for doing this race in the peaks? Any ideas?

Thanks skimo mags!

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Originally Posted by fleaches

Bumping this thread because I signed up for the GT with a high school friend this year. We did power of four last year and I realize this is a very different race.

Looking for any and all advice, but have two more specific questions:

1. Reasonable backpack size to carry all the crap you need to lug with you? Any recommendations?

2. I've got a blacklight pro + trab gara that I think will be a decent setup for this, but I'm a little worried about boots. Getting light boots that fit my feet has been a struggle. My light boots are zero g peaks which walk well but are nowhere near skimo boots. Trouble is I would need to punch the hell out of a skimo boot to make it fit my feet, which kind of rules out renting or borrowing, and even buying since most are so difficult to punch. Will I hate myself for doing this race in the peaks? Any ideas?

Thanks skimo mags!

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Try an upsized Alien 1.0. They have more volume than you may think.

I would go with comfort >> ROM/weight, knowing you are making a trade off.
Definitely recommend doing a really long day on whatever setup you use to make sure it is comfortable at mile 30..

I used the Dynafit 28L pack and liked it. I like the skin pocket they have built in. Definitely don't try to make a hydration pack work - odds are it won't.

If I were to do it again, I'd go preview the course following the last aid station. Knowing the timing of ripping skins vs just skiing on em in that section can really make or break you..

Thanks, good tips!

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Originally Posted by Skip Dooley

Try an upsized Alien 1.0. They have more volume than you may think.

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They can't really be punched much though can they? My problem is that I don't need a TON of volume everywhere, just super wide toe box. I have yet to find a boot that didn't need at least a big toe bunion punch.



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It’s basically the same lower as the RS/F1. Plenty of plastic there - thicker than the zero gs for sure.


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