Kona's hips

She's 7 months now and seems to be having some hip problems. She has kind of a waddling gait and she balances almost all of her weight on her front legs when she squats to go potty. Plus ... she has a hard time getting up from lying down.

The vet suggested hip dysplasia might be a possibility. He wants me to start her on glucosamine and aspirin. He said we should give that a week to kick in and then he'll see her after T-giving.

Anyone else know about hip dysplasia? Scoob and I are kinda freaking out.

:( :( :(

i don't know much but i have been doing a little research lately cause our shephard/lab is about 10 mos old and i don't want to do anything to cause hip problems.

sounds like they think it is a combination of genetic and environmental factors that cause it. more common in bigger breeds, but happens in small dogs as well. i guess for dogs under 2 years you are supposed to avoid too much strenuous activity; big hikes, mtn biking, climbing in the snow, forcing the dog to run fast for long periods, etc.... basically anything that causes the dog to put too much pressure on its back legs.

google it. there are a ton of websites re: hip dysplasia.

hope that dysplasia isn't the case. :(

I'm at a party right now a little buzzed (a lot) but I am compelled to answer!

In 97' I bought a beautiful "pick of the litter" yellow lab from a local breeder. Grand Canadian Champ", AKC Champ...blah blahblah.

Stoli is perfect, right? wrong!

we were thinking about breeding him ( for family only) but we, did the "responsible" thing by getting his eyes and hips checked before we found a bitch.

After a $200.00 xray we found that Stoli has a severe degenerative hip socket, or lack of one. My wife cried the whole way home from the vet. I wanted to kill the breeder.

The moral of story is check your dogs before you breed them. Yes I realize there can be some latent, genetic issues, in big breed dogs. But if we all do our part, we can cut down on the undesirable bastards.

I still have Stoli, he is happy and so far his dysplasia has not manifested its self*.

Keep your dog thin. Swim him if possible
Walks and rest

feed him glacogusamine (sp?) enriched/fortified food

*yes after long frisbee sessions or run arounds with othe dogs, he yelps in pain just jumping on to the couch or in the back of the 4runnuer...sad :frown:

Good luck

I googled it just a few minutes ago and the similarities between Kona and the signs and symptoms are overwhelming. Hopefully it's a fluke though?

She's a mutt - we adopted her from a shelter, so she's no champion. We lover her dearly though and don't want her to suffer, especially not this young.

Its a sad but true reality in the dog breeding world. Pedigree means more than the health of the dog in many cases, and breeders just keep breeding recessive traits into dogs. Way to go MacDaddy having the sense and ethic to check your dogs hips before breeding.

Breeders/Puppy Farmers suck ass. People buying pets from them are just adding to the over population problem.

People should adopt from the pound or from someone giving em away, then get your pet neutered or spayed. There are way too many dogs and cats getting euthinized. Mixes are better too, the effects of inbreading are smaller, and they are usually a lot healthier.

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Originally Posted by steepconcrete

Breeders/Puppy Farmers suck ass. People buying pets from them are just adding to the over population problem.

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AGREED.

One of my yellow labs is from an extreme overbreed....too many good genes mixed together = bad results for the offsrping...


Fred (3 years old)...perfect teeth, perfect coat....cost my dad around 2,000 in leg surgeries....good luck

This is what happens when you control breeding to gain certain "desirable" traits at the expense of letting natural selection take its course. These problems will only continue to get worse with time. It is pretty stupid (or at least short-sighted), and it is sad. However, I think some people start to get a little carried away when it comes to caring for their dogs. Where I come from dogs are animals/property; they aren't people. Dogs, like other livestock, should be treated humanely and with respect, but not pampered and treated like children. My girlfriend works with a couple (in there mid-twenties) who own a malamute/wolf that has a lot of health problems. They've spent somewhere around $10,000 on this dog and its problems. They've been together for awhile, will probably marry and have kids. They both work in a restaurant. To me that $10,000 would have done a lot more good in a college account for a future child rather than repairing a dog that is poorly equipped to survive. I have loved every dog I've ever owned, but I'd never spend thousands of dollars on vet bills. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by LAN

She's a mutt - we adopted her from a shelter, so she's no champion. We lover her dearly though and don't want her to suffer, especially not this young.

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It seems rare that a mutt would get hip dysplasa. Pirate first showed his first signs of it when he was around 7 years old. When it first showed up it was really bad almost to the point where we had to put him to sleep. But the hip problems almost seemed to regress for 3 or so years and he got around damn good for an old dog. But Golden's are prone to HD and Pirate was pushing 120 lbs...he was a big doggie.

Anyways I would get him to a vet ASAP it could be something simple like fluid on his hip. Or a strained muscle.

Well, I just got back from the vet. I knew from the big sigh that the vet let out when he saw the x-rays, that it wasn't good.

Kona's 8 months old and has severe hip dysplasia. I'm so bummed, and I can't stop crying. The vet said that we could do one of several surgeries - the one he suggests is a triple pelvic something-or-other, that costs $5k. That's $5k we don't have.

When I asked the vet what he would do if she were his dog, he said, "I'd give her Aspirin each day, enjoy her while I have her, and put her down when she's ready."

I'm so sad. :(

Poor Kona. That really sucks. Can you get a loan for the $5K? The payments on a loan of that size shouldn't be too bad.

Good luck and best wishes to Kona.

HD info here....good luck LAN.

Hip Testing….Just Do It?ã2001
Eric Gramlich


A few weeks ago I was talking to Melinda Proffer when she said she was in the process of putting together a newsletter for the SABT to be distributed in the US. As we discussed the newsletter, all subjects- kids, dogs, work, dogs, life, dogs etc.-came up as they usually do when Melinda and I are on the phone. We eventually wound up on the subject of hip screening and dysplasia. Melinda and I both agreed that some form of hip screening was crucial to the development of the boerboel in this country.
Well, I volunteered to discuss the two methods. This article is the result of me trying to convey to you why hip screening is important. I also hope to convey how PennHip and OFA can be used to increase the quality of hip joints in the boerboel.
Earlier this year, prior to getting a Dogue de Bordeaux x-rayed, I spent a great deal of time trying to sort things out between the two methods. So much undocumented information and hearsay exists on internet web sites, from message boards and breeders gossip that it took a long time to ferret out reliable sources of information from books, researched articles, scientific journals and the like. After digging through all the stuff for this article it was clear that most of it was too technical or lengthy to put into anything but a master’s thesis or write a book on the subject with a references list and the whole ball of wax.
Knowing that this wasn't an option, it came down to this: what really matters when it comes to hips/hip dysplasia (HD) and screening? To do it! Either the OFA method or PennHip are a valuable resource to you as a Boerboel breeder. Too many breeders do not screen at all! Flipping a coin and using either method is all you really have to do to be ahead of the game! Is that my whole article? No, but it could be as it is the most important thing to do.
Before discussing each method, here are a few points about hips and how breeding affects them:

¨ HD is a complicated inherited condition that is passed on to puppies by the action of several genes.
¨ Pups in the same litter may have a different “quality” of hips.
¨ Overall you will get the hips that are characteristic of the line of dogs and breed of dogs that you have. Fore example:73.3 % of all English Bulldogs submitted to OFA are dysplastic vs. 0% of Australian Terriers submitted.
¨ By breeding dogs whose ancestors and littermates have good hips to like dogs, the quality of hips will increase. The average hip score for the breed can be increased in the long run.
¨ Breeding a dog that has good hips but whose littermates or ancestors do not have good hips is less likely to produce good hips. Breeding a dog whose hips are fair but is from a litter and line with good hips is more likely to produce a dog with good hips.
¨ You cannot tell (in all but the most severe cases) the quality of a dogs hips by watching how it "moves", how it lies down, or how it jumps. Dogs with mild to severe dysplasia can and do exist without showing any signs of the disease.
Message: Pick a bloodline that is known to produce good hips, the more good ancestors in a pedigree, the better chances you have to purchase or produce good hips. X-ray HD screening is relatively new to many boerboel lines, so in some cases we may only have one generation of data.
Both OFA and PennHIP methods are based upon the interpretation of radiographs of the subjects hips. OFA varies from PennHip in the number of views and positioning of the animal in the radiograph. They also differ in how the radiographs are used to determine hip quality. OFA utilizes one view, what I would call the "traditional" view, dog on their back, legs parallel and in a line with the body as shown above. PennHip uses three different views for evaluation as depicted in figures 1-3. Figure one shows the traditional OFA radiograph which is also one of the PennHIP views. Figure two represents the distracted (stretched) view of the joint. The ball of the femur is moved to show the looseness of the joint. The looseness of the joint (which PennHip uses to predict the likelihood of developing HD) is measured from this view. The third PennHip view (figure 3) is of the joint in a state of compression which is used to judge how well the ball and socket fit together as a unit. Hip dysplasia frequently results in

changes to the shape of the ball or socket joint which will be reflected in a poor fit.
So how are these radiographs used to make a hip rating?
Radiographs sent to OFA are processed and copies are sent to three different board certified radiologists. Again OFA uses the one view depicted in Figure 1. The radiologists assign them a grade based on the appearance of the joint. They grade how it fits together, whether there are any signs of HD. Overall there are nine anatomic areas of the joint that factor into the grading. The grading system has 7 different ratings: Excellent, Good, Fair, Borderline, Mild, Moderate, and Severe. Only the first three rating are considered passing by OFA standards.
The PennHIP method obtains joint information from the standard OFA view, gathers joint congruity (joint fit) readings from the compression view and calculates joint laxity (looseness) readings from the distraction view. PennHIP calculates the distraction index (DI) from mechanical measurements taken from the radiograph (fig 3) and calculates a ratio of the “looseness” of the joint when distressed. You will see PennHIP ratings of .30, .50 etc. What this roughly refers to is how far the ball is out of the socket when distracted. So a dog that had a rating of .40 has a joint that is 40% out of socket when distracted and a .75 rating means that the joint is 75% out of socket when distracted.
PennHIP looks at joint shape, appearance of hip damage, and joint looseness. The main thrust of the PennHIP procedure is relating the looseness of the hip joint to the potential for a joint to develop HD. Loose hips will not always become dysplastic but are more likely too. PennHIP provides an average rating for each breed of dog and compares your dog to the breed as a whole. Studies have shown that all dogs with a rating of 0.30 or less have been free of HD. PennHIP ratings can be done at any age (over 4 months).
OFA relies on the shape of the joint and its final appearance as an adult to determine the rating. OFA issues a preliminary rating before the age of two years and a final rating after two years of age. Only dogs with the ratings of Excellent, Good, or Fair are acceptable for breeding.
Both methods can be used to determine the condition of a dog's joint (and subsequently the likelihood of developing HD) at the minimum age of 4 months with 90% accuracy when compared to ratings of the same dog at 24 months of age. Preliminary screening at this age can also prevent some heartbreak in the long run (it is better to find out a pup is dysplastic at 4 months than after setting your hopes and dreams on him for two years).
This article barely scratches the surface of the topic of hip dysplasia. I urge everyone to visit the websites for both methods and evaluate their differences for yourself. Take time to contact veterinarians who do each method and discuss which method suits your needs best. Most importantly pick one and use it! Hopefully we can work with other breeders and the parent organization to make hip screening mandatory for registration and breeding of the boerboel.

Radiograph images courtesy of PennHIP




Orthepedic Foundation for Animals
2300 E Nifong Boulevard
Columbia, Missouri 65201-3856
Phone (573) 442-0418
Fax (573) 875-5073
OFA Website: www.offa.com
Email:ofa@offa.org

University of Pennsylvania Hip Improvement Program.
PennHIP website: http://www.vet.upenn.edu/pennhip/
The PennHIP program is overseen by the:

Synbiotics Corporation
11011 Via Fronterra
San Diego, CA 92127
USA
Phone (800) 228-4305
Fax (858) 451-5719
http://www.synbiotics.com
Email: info@sybiotics.com

Wow, sorry to hear that LAN. I have a 13 year old yellow lab and I've had it in the back of my mind for a long time that he might end up with dysplasia... He's been really lucky. He does have arthritis though, and we have this powder that we sprinkle over his food 2x a day that contains glucosamine, chondroitin, and essential fatty acids. He's a lot less stiff after he goes for walks when he's on the stuff, and he doesn't limp around after he gets up from a long nap. I don't know if it does anything for dysplasia, but it couldn't hurt. It's really helped Grunt's joints, maybe it would do something for Kona. You can get it at most pet stores or farm stores, it's about $20 for two-months supply for a dog of 100#.

Good luck with everything.

For us when our dog got about 8ish , lab size or abit smaller, he was getting sore and won't run around like an idiot any more . ASA and glucosamine fixed him up fine. We did later switch to a product called Recovery. Basically powder developed for horses but there is a human version. Its glucosamine, MSM, Vit c and E and special ingredients but the first 4 are the vast majority by weight. Combo did the same as the ASA and a powder easier to give rather than pills. AS it works so well on the dog I started taking the stuff and later just the main ingredients. Even after a hard work out or day skiing never really feel too much the next day.

edit
the glucosamine should help with tendons ligements that sort of thing but will take time to make any better
the MSM - see below over time is supposed to speed recovery from injury
Vit c and e - natural anti imflamitories/ anti oxidents

I have a 9 year old yeller lab that has had joint problems, partly because of large body on small frame, mostly because of 6 years of hard upland hunting. One thing that I have found to help ease her discomfort (in addition to baby aspirin) is a product called MSM. It is a white powdery substance, (99.9% organic sulfur) completely orgranic and safe. Marley gets a little on top of her food daily and it helps. No more chukar terrain for her, but she still gets out for pheasants.

As the owner of a both a pound mutt and a "pedigree" chocolate lab, I have to chime in here because I've done a lot of homework on this subject:

A) Dysplasia can be avoided in pedigrees with responsible breeding. Saying that this condition is a reason not to get a pedigree dog is just plain ignorant. Do your homework, request the parents' xrays and certification as well as lineage and you can normally avoid this stuff. Plenty of my friends' pound mutts have dysplasia--I can think of four off the top of my head.

B) Glucosamine helps a lot, especially during the formative years. I chose to pay quite a bit of money to feed Paco G pills AND feed him Eukanuba with G in it during his first 15 months, even though his parents were both rated "excellent" in the hip category. I would strongly recommend it despite it's uppity cost.

C) Avoid deep snow, mud, etc., especially during formative years. This is extremely hard on the dogs' hips and joints. Bella is starting to get a bit of arthritis at 7 y/o because she's been a lifelong skiing companion. Do I regret it? Absolutely not because she still skis and it's her favorite thing to do. But labs and sheperards are very, very prone to dysplasia.

D) Once it's diagnosed, you can be somewhat limited in options. Find a specialist, even if it's outside of your region, as this can make a big difference in the results. My neighbor's lab/shep mutt just got total hip replacement about a year or so ago. I'm not personally all that thrilled with the results, but supposedly he's in less pain. He's also very fat, so it's hard to tell if he's any more inclined to exercise or if he's just fat. I have heard of more successful results but haven't seen them myself.

GOOD LUCK, KONA!

A friend of mine has a lab with hip dysplasia. Her dog is now 12. Asprin and swimming seem to do the trick. They are lucky because they have an inground pool so the dog can go in and out whenever it wants. Good luck but water therapy seems to really help

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Originally Posted by mrw

A friend of mine has a lab with hip dysplasia. Her dog is now 12. Asprin and swimming seem to do the trick. They are lucky because they have an inground pool so the dog can go in and out whenever it wants. Good luck but water therapy seems to really help

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This depends on the type of dysplasia, me thinks. There is one where the "ball and socket" of the hip are missing the socket, so the femur has no where to park, per se. The other type is tendon/ligament related and is more treatable via swimming, etc....from my recollection.

You maybe surprised how helpful the glucosamine can be. I had an older dog that was unable to walk down stairs. After about a month the on glucosamine the dog was jumping off of the stairs to running down squirrels in our a yard. After watching the dog I started taking the stuff myself so I could keep thrashing myself in the bumps. Recently studies are showing how effective glucosamine can be and the prices have shot up a ton. You can usually get it at like a Sam's Club alot cheaper if you get there brand.
1500 mg is about what they recomend for people so you could probably cut that down alot for a dog based on size.

My new pup gets the glucosamine daily mixed with some peanut butter (1000 mg.)
My last dog lived to be 15 and was pretty active up until the end. I hope your pup starts to feel better.

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Originally Posted by steepconcrete

Breeders/Puppy Farmers suck ass. People buying pets from them are just adding to the over population problem.

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There can be a huge difference between a breeder and a puppy farm. The breeder I got my lab from is very responsible and treats all his dogs with respect and doesn't underfeed, beat, or mistreat them in any way.

LAN sorry to hear about your puppy. I have had two dogs with hip dysplasia. Both pure bred chessapeakes. The first one when it affected her she had to completely remove all weight from the leg. I only remember seeing this happen twice. The vast majority of time she was just fine (at least she never gave an indication that she was in pain).

The second chessy we ended up having to put down. Similar story as Mac Daddy's. We were going to breed her for family and select friends when the she was diagnosed with HD. Since the breeder guaranteed her against it they told us to put her down and the would give us a new puppy. We declined and had her spade and the breeder gave us another puppy. It wasn't until Aspen was over 8 years of age before we even noticed that she had HD and the signs were very minor (e.g. running at full speed she favored one side only slightly). It wasn't until she got over 9 years before she had a lot of joint problems (probably had arthritus in front legs). That's when she made the sad trip to the vet.

Bottom line of this is some dogs can function normally for long periods of time with HD. I hope your dog is one of them.

Sorry LAN.

What the Reverand said.

Hip dysplasia occurs when the socket (on the pelvis) doesn't form around the ball (on the femur). I've never heard of corrective surgery for it. It's entirely hereditary and good breeders use the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals to certify breeding stock (the OFA number is printed on the AKC registration). In some breeds (like Irish Setters) only OFA certified dogs and bitches are used.

But none of that helps you. Glucosamine will help lube the joints. A second opinion would be a good idea. The X-ray is normally taken with the dog in its back and its legs straight back (the OFA method). The vet should be willing to give you the X-ray and the OFA might review it for you (for a fee of course).

It could also be scoliosis (deformation of the spine) or spondylosis (spinal osteoarthritis) but that isn't good either. It could also be joint damage from a previous injury (puppies will crash into things on occasion). That might be treatable (with rest, pain killers, and anti-imflamatories).

edit - for a 7 month medium to large dog I would suspect longbone (i.e. growing pains) long before I would suspect arthritis. They can be in a lot of discomfort when their skeleton is out of kilter.

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Originally Posted by Grange

There can be a huge difference between a breeder and a puppy farm. The breeder I got my lab from is very responsible and treats all his dogs with respect and doesn't underfeed, beat, or mistreat them in any way.

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Yep - there are lot's of reputable breeders out there. Ours gave hips and eye guarantee allowed us to have our vet check out pups and almost as importantly the parents. We had frequent visits to see the litter and they had temprament tests done to match dogs to prospective owners. She has a long waiting list.

Check through breed associations and go for breeders who breed working dogs rather than show dogs.

My Golden is absolute perfection.

Our vet is a fantastic guy. Smart and caring. He said that her hips were so bad (both are dislocated) that glucosamine wouldn't do anything to help at this point. She doesn't have arthritis at this time, but the balls of her femur are totally outside of the socket. We went over the x-ray together, and he sent it home with me in case I wanted to take it to a surgeon. I desperately want her to be better, but we can't afford a $5,000 triple pelvic osteotomy or a $10,000 bilateral total hip replacement.

We'll give her plenty of aspirin, lots of treats and let her sit around on her bed in front of the fireplace as much as she pleases. The less weight bearing on her back legs, the better.

All we wanted was to adopt a healthy dog who would be with us for a while. Guess that's not in the cards for us. :(

Edit: We're not interested in dogs who are coming from breeders. We always promised each other that we would only get dogs from shelters that needed a loving home. Seems that it's bitten us in the ass now.

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Originally Posted by LAN

We're not interested in dogs who are coming from breeders. We always promised each other that we would only get dogs from shelters that needed a loving home. Seems that it's bitten us in the ass now.

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Don't give up. You gave her a quality of life she would not otherwise have had, and when the time comes you will do what is best for all of you. There are too many other dogs that would appreciate that same chance for you to allow this to halt your intentions.

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Originally Posted by LAN

Seems that it's bitten us in the ass now.

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Absofuckinglutely not, LAN! You get HUGE Karma points and Kona has a mom and dad who love her to death. What did she have before that? You win because you did the right thing and she wins because you did the right thing. Cheers to you, good lady!