Moment vs. Nomad 2

I'm upgrading to a six & six trail bike and narrowed my search down to either the Nomad 2 or Moment. My riding style is typically a long lolligag ascent with a fairly burly descent. I've read that both of these frames are perfect for this, but want to know which one will hold up better under abuse. I've heard the Nomad linkage can get out of line easy and the bearings need constant care. Seems like the only difference to the Nomad 2 is that they made it easier to get at the bearings rather than address the linkage problems. I don't know much about the Moment, but someone I ride with swears by his and has never had issues with the linkage.

Any 1st hand exp/knowledge with the Moment would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by powder11

I'm upgrading to a six & six trail bike and narrowed my search down to either the Nomad 2 or Moment. My riding style is typically a long lolligag ascent with a fairly burly descent. I've read that both of these frames are perfect for this, but want to know which one will hold up better under abuse. I've heard the Nomad linkage can get out of line easy and the bearings need constant care. Seems like the only difference to the Nomad 2 is that they made it easier to get at the bearings rather than address the linkage problems. I don't know much about the Moment, but someone I ride with swears by his and has never had issues with the linkage.

Any 1st hand exp/knowledge with the Moment would be awesome.

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Ellsworth has the shittiest warranty in the business. Or at least they used to. Plenty of people fucked over by Tony. If they've fixed that issue it would be good for them, as their bikes seem to ride pretty well.

Still loving my 05 Moment. But, the finish work on their frames is a little shwaggy for what they charg for them. The inside of my seat tube has a rough spot I've tried to sand out, but the fucker still eats seat posts. I'm on my second post and will probably need a 3rd one day. It just scratches the living shit out of the post every time you raise or lower it. If I would have paid anywhere near retail I would have been irate. That being said, I think the bike rides great and it has held up well for me (a no skills loser who beats the shit out his stuff!).
I know Ellsworth has their customer service issues, but I've had a Santa Cruz and they fucking sucked, they also didn't back up their product (rear triangle broken at the weld, one of many I've seen do that). I'd go for the Moment if it is between the two.

Why not an Intense SS from Chainlove?

Didnt the Nomad II also update their suspension ratios to get rid of the Nomad dead spot and sag issues? And fuck anything ellsworth.

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Originally Posted by backcountry1pr

And fuck anything ellsworth.

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seriously. Ditch the ellsworth.

Substitute with a Reign X. Sounds perfect for what you want.

toby - I know someone with the Moment and in his own words: - Beautiful bike but I would not get one again. It's too bling bling for what you pay,

I know I'm a Norco homer but the Fluid LT is awesome and has been tested just fine in Whistler. I think you'd like it and there are deals aplenty to be had

Agreed with what has already been said about Ellsworth. Just a crappy company. Also, I have seen several posts on mtbr.com about broken rocker arms, so there is a durability issue. I looked at Moments but went with an RFX. In retrospect it was a great decision and I am a Turner rider for life now. If you are willing to spend the coin for a botique bike get one that the owner stands behind like a Turner or a Ventana Terramoto (since the new RFX won't be out for a while). Z made a great reco about the Reign. That is a sweet bike for a good price.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

toby - I know someone with the Moment and in his own words: - Beautiful bike but I would not get one again. It's too bling bling for what you pay,

I know I'm a Norco homer but the Fluid LT is awesome and has been tested just fine in Whistler. I think you'd like it and there are deals aplenty to be had

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The price on the Moment frame is too good to pass up... not much over wholesale. I'm within driving distance of the Ellsworth factory so I'll pay them a visit in person if I ever need warranty service and they dick me around. Thanks for the feedback!

Best 6 and 6 out there, well actually 6.5". Climbs like a 30 lb bike, descends like a 45 lb DH rig. You can actually get a longer shock and make it a 7" rear and run a 7" fork and have a dedicated FR rig if you choose. Adjustable head angle and rear chainstay length, built in Canada. Dont worry about warranty, you wont ever need it. Built like a brick shit house!

If those were the only 2 bikes I was looking at, I'd take the Moment. I just sold my Ellsworth, but it was the most beautiful frame I've ever seen. It rode nice too ;) I often have the thought of getting rid of my two largest bikes and buying a Rogue.

Get the Nomad. Sure Santa Cruzes creak and pop and whatever, but their frames don't break. I beat the living snot out of my VP-Free. Crashed it 5 ways from Sunday or whatever the expression is. My sister's old 4" Heckler still rides like it's new.

From all I've been able to gather both from the net and real live people I've met in real life ;) , Ellsworths are gucci crap. Why do I say that? Because at that price point, the frame shouldn't break except under extraordinary circumstances. And if it does, you should get a new one and that one should last you forever. Meanwhile there are lots of stories out there of people breaking multiple Ellsworths. If you're going to spend that much coin, get a real bike like the Knolly, Turner, or any of the other companies that are making great, solid bikes. I've beat the living piss out of my 04 5 Spot and it rides the same as the day I bought it. If I had gotten the Epiphany, I have no doubt I'd be on my 3rd frame by now.

I don't think Moments break any more than Nomads. I never had to do more than add a little grease to the pivots on my ID and even though it was a super light frame, it was stiffer than my current Reign X rear end. Both bikes on the OP's list are strong bikes. The Ellsworth of old is not the same as they are today, but people can't let it go. Their customer service has been great in the past few years from all accounts. All bikes can be broken and very few riders are pushing the bikes in this class to that level. I would not hesitate to buy another Ellsworth based on my experience.

I really hate public bashing of any company on the web. Vote with your wallet, not by defamation. I'm pretty confident that there are a lot of good people who work at any company.

Isn't Ells on the verge of going out of business, or was that all MTBR conjecture? Losing the ICT licensing money from Iron Horse certainly isn't going to help their situation.

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Originally Posted by phatfreeheeler

I really hate public bashing of any company on the web. Vote with your wallet, not by defamation. I'm pretty confident that there are a lot of good people who work at any company.

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As a potential buyer, it is nice to be able to find sincere feedback. You don't get that when people just vote with their wallets. Judging from what other people buy might lead one to believe that aerospokes where rad, and targas the worlds finest DH telebinding.

Fair enough. However, 2nd hand information is not acceptable. That's just propagation of rumor.

RFX, Enduro SL, 6.6...........

Don't pigeon hole yourself too early in your search. There are a ton of good bikes in this category now.

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Originally Posted by phatfreeheeler

I really hate public bashing of any company on the web. Vote with your wallet, not by defamation. I'm pretty confident that there are a lot of good people who work at any company.

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http://blog.cleveland.com/top_entert...ium_barney.jpg

long story short: after surveying the crop, i'm strongly leading toward the nomad2 for am/light FR. build will be 31-32 lbs with strong, reasonably light parts.

here's why:

a. giant 2010 reign X --> looks very sweet, and will address the weight issue of the current reign X (which weighs almost as much as my uzzi vpx). But won't come out until after the summer.

b. intense tracer / new uzzi --> will make the flexy 6.6 obsolete. but the tracer is a bit too much on the xc/trailbike side of things and is focussed on the float shock only. the new uzzi is centered on the totem -- and i already have the vpx/totem.

c. turner 2010 RFX --> would prolly get that if it were available. not stoked about the price, but would bite the bullet.

d. el guapo --> not feeling it. but mebbe. i'm leaning toward a VP2 or DW rather than conventional HL suspension.

e. pivot firebird --> local dealer hasn't bothered to return my queries. guess they figure in a recession, they shouldn't bother. wtf? The DW link aspect is a plus. the ugly frame is a minus. VP lower lnks go thru a lot of rotation, so big ass bearings, preferably w / a grease port, are a plus....so it's too bad that pivot doesn't yet have 'em.

f. Trek remedy --> i'm leaning toward a short-link DW or VP2, whereas the remedy is pretty standard 4 bar (rear pivot notwithstanding). But the odd shock size means i could not swap in my piggyback roco air or dhx airs from the part box.

g. Enduro SL --> see above comments. i'd probably like this bike, but for some reason just can't get excited about paying $$$ to specialized. YMMV.

h. Ventana --> see (f).

i. Yeti --> they've sort of become dead to me.

j. ROcky Mountain --> not impressed by their latest offering here.

k. Felt --> haven't seen one or ridden one. heard encouraging reports however.

l. Knolly --> nice bikes. very well made. But i have the uzzi vpx and don't want another beefy bike.

these are just off the top of my head. prolly many others that should be on this list. the nomad / monarch can be had for under $1600, which represents pretty decent value compared to many on this list.

Knolly Endorphin is the one you want to look at in this category, not the Delirium T. The Delirium T is basically a short-travel V-Tach, which means it's super-burly and super-heavy. The Endorphin is lighter, more efficient, but still burly. You have to remember, Noel's a big dude and he has plenty of skill and balls, he's not going to build a bike that will fold on you.

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Originally Posted by skimasterflex

RFX, Enduro SL, 6.6...........

Don't pigeon hole yourself too early in your search. There are a ton of good bikes in this category now.

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I hear ya, but I'm pigeon holed by my market (Whistler) and what is available here at a good price. I looked long and hard at the Reign, but I can get a moment frame from a LBS for the same price and $600 less than retail on a Nomad frame with annodized finish. The shop owner has ridden a moment for two seasons now with no issues and has sold many locally with no issues. I believe Ellsworth did have problems in the past and is now scrambling to get back in good graces with extremely affordable prices. Who knows... maybe I'll get screwed?

Endorphin is indeed a very nice bike. Back when I had my mouth over the exhaust pipe of thinking I needed a bigger trail bike, I was getting all worked up over the 5spot v rfx debate. Someone recommended an endorphin to me as a tweener in that mix. It rode much lighter and with more spirit than I expected, but still a very solid feeling bike. It was probably more bike than I needed, but I was still impressed.

I also wouldn't overlook the Delerium T. I rode Troy's down in Fruita for shits and grins. Heavy tank, but dang that bike was hilarious fun. It was very efficient pedaling the modest kinds of climbs on the Loma exit trails and made me feel like I had skills in the chunk, which is saying something. Way overkill bike for me.

I also really liked the Nomad. Santa Cruz bikes tend to feel really cozy right off the bat to me. I've had my issues with their lower pivots, but Willie took care of me on a couple of occassions, although I did have to pay for a replacement blur frame once. The new ones appear to be a nice improvement with a redesign of the suspension and pivots. Again, more bike than I need but tons of fun.

2 cents from a guy happily stuck in the old school XC side of things and currently finding enough love with a 3 inch travel bike.

I cannot comment on the Moment - but I've had a Nomad2 for a month or so..

let me start by saying that I had a 08 Nomad and really liked that bike..so after reading all the positive things about the new one, I decided to get one and try it out for myself...

I also have a 09 Reign, which thus far is my favorite bike.

SO...I rode the Nomad2 pretty hard for a few weeks and tried many different shocks on that damn bike (Roco, Vivid, Float R) and none of them felt right. It also felt steep and top heavy. Even with a 170mm fork, it it was steeper than my Reign with a 160mm fork. I like to ride my bikes over the front, but when I did that on the nomad + 160mm fork, I feel like I was going to endo.

The new Nomad climbs extremely well tho - I'll give it that! It's almost better than my Reign...see the Reign is a bit like the dw*link and has quite a bit of anti-squat, so the back end feels much firmer when you pedal up rough stuff..doesn't feel as plush as the Nomad. But the Reign pedals as good - and MUCH better when pointing downhill.

It’s also not really compliant on small bumps and blows quickly through the last few inches of its travel. Heck, even with a super light spring on the vivid (which was specifically tuned to the Nomad2) I barely got the appropriate sag…but because of the falling rate at the end, I was blowing through the travel in no time on hard hits. I'd say it's one of the worst performing bikes I've had for fast, rocky, rooty kindda terrain. I have 3 other friends that got one and they all feel the same...two of which had a 08 and regret selling them.

this past weekend I did back to back rides on the same trails. 3+ ride on Saturday on the Nomad2 and the same ride Sunday on the Reign. The Reign suits me much better and I was probably twice as fast/comfortable on my Reign.

So I posted it up for sale Monday and I had it sold a few hours later. the new owner is picking it up this weekend.

Don't believe the hype and don't be a sheep...

So the answer seems to be neither bro! See if you can find a deal on an '08 frame that just got/is about to be replaced, like an RFX or 6.6. I just got my '08 RFX for a song.

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Originally Posted by frorider

g. Enduro SL --> see above comments. i'd probably like this bike, but for some reason just can't get excited about paying $$$ to specialized. YMMV.

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If you ride a large, we should talk.


For the short time I rode my Nomad1, I really enjoyed it. After reading Acadian's post, I'm glad I didn't buy the Nomad2 like I had been thinking.

thanks Luc for the info. i've scoured the internetz for a ride comparison i could trust re: the nomad 2, but just couldn't find any. I think i've read most of your posts on the SC forum on empty beer, but from what i saw you didn't bring up any negatives.

plan B for me was to get a 2009 reign and sell the parts & slap on mine, but today i just bought a 1.5 ST lyrik so that kinda screws up that option. and to be honest, i have talked to several reign owners who rave about the ride quality but bitch about pressing in new bearings fairly regularly.

hmm. guess i could get a reign, get a 1.125 lyrik, and just wait for the damn RFX to come out.

or just ride my uzzi and HT 29er.