Ski Techs... Torque testing question

I know there are tons of ski techs around the forum. Do you always torque test bindings when you mount them or are there those days when people just slack off and don't do the tests? How common is it for shops to not follow through with torque tests?

I brought a few pairs of skis in to get mounted yesterday and got them back today. On one pair the toes are definately not close to being torqued the same. It looks like one is at 5 and one is 6.5 (which I usually where my DIN is set). I could REALLY tell the difference when I twisted the toes. They are not even close.

After breaking my leg last year I almost feel like I need to bring in the 6 or so pairs of skis I got mounted this year to some other shop to reassure myself that they are actually testing out right. I don't mind breaking my leg if they did their job but if not that would suck if it could have been avoided by somebody being lazy.

springs vary and the tech is allowed to adjust the DIN to compensate it into the right range for your recommended setting (up to 1.5 over/under, i think). look at the paperwork- it will show the results and final din settings (which should correspond to the indicator window). if the paperwork says they were all set on 6.5, there's a problem.



-------

If I'm mounting either skis or bindings that have been bought from me then I include an FOC test on my Huber machine. If I'm mounting customer supplied skis & bindings then I recommend a torque test but it's a chargeable item in addition to the mounting charge.

As H-wood says, the pre/post test DIN's etc should be detailed on the paperwork.

We ALWAYS test EVERY binding that we mount. We never "slack" and let em go out untested. DIN can be adjusted +/- 2DIN in order to meet release requirements for your skier code(usually done in 1/2 DIN increments until it tests out correctly).

I'm in canukistain: we don't test unless the person asks to have the bindings tested ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by H-wood

paperwork- it will show the results and final din settings (which should correspond to the indicator window). if the paperwork says they were all set on 6.5, there's a problem

---

The paperwork says 6.5 for both skis and the toe peices are definately at different settings -- they also take noticably amounts of force to move the toe peices sideways (912s BTW). They couldn't have possibly torque tested them.

So from the sound of some of the answers here you have to specifically ask for your binders to get torqued even though they charge me $40 for a mount? That sounds absolutely stupid. What would be the point of setting the DIN???? I've never had anybody in the state say that the torque test is additional or even mention it as an additional option. I guess regardless I have had another past issue this year and should really go to a different shop that is further away but is better -- more geared towards skis.

Keep in mind that there's a fair amount of slop in the torque testing procedure. With Salomon, as long as the median value of three pulls falls within the "inspection range," it's a pass. For example, torquing the equivalent of a 5 with a setting of 6 is valid and requires no further changes.

Then again, if you can really feel the differences by hand without using a measurement device, I would be suspicious... Why not just take them back to the same shop? If they didn't pull them when they mounted, they should do it free.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltron

Keep in mind that there's a fair amount of slop in the torque testing procedure. With Salomon, as long as the median value of three pulls falls within the "inspection range," it's a pass. For example, torquing the equivalent of a 5 with a setting of 6 is valid and requires no further changes.

---

Yah I'm sure you're right. I guess I'm just not being clear hear. I have like 10 pairs of skis in the other room. Every other toe-peice seems to take about the same amount of torque placed by my hand to twist the binding. I have a hard time getting the bindings to twist alot. However I can definately say it takes ALOT less torque to twist the binding in question. This binding is clearly out of range. I have no question in my mind that I would pre-release with a decent impact.

Crass, the people that are talking about torque tests as an option do not work in the united states, so they aren't dealing w/ the same liability issues.

here in the usa, a shop has to torque test a binding pretty much every time a screwdriver touches it. if they mounted it, it's supposed to get torqued, and the results of the torque test and final settings must be recorded on your paperwork, which will have the tech's initials. this is what they have to do to cover their asses in case you decide to sue them if you get hurt.

sounds like that toepiece didn't get tested- paperwork says 6.5, actual setting is 5, and the toepiece moves more easily than the other.
the manager probably would like to know about it, and you ought to get a refund or some other consideration. if the shop in question is not "geared toward skis", don't get your work done there- get your work done at a real ski shop, preferably one at a ski resort.
even then, it's a good idea to do what you did, and check it yourself. everyone makes mistakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by H-wood

here in the usa, a shop has to torque test a binding pretty much every time a screwdriver touches it. if they mounted it, it's supposed to get torqued, and the results of the torque test and final settings must be recorded on your paperwork, which will have the tech's initials. this is what they have to do to cover their asses in case you decide to sue them if you get hurt.

---

Here's a scenario(my usual mounting-by-a-shop experience): I go into your shop with a mount only, I want no adjustment, no torque test. You will do a torque test anyway as a matter of procedure? You're also saying that other shops do the same? I've been going to the wrong shop...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mntlion

I'm in canukistain: we don't test unless the person asks to have the bindings tested ;)

---

Ding, ding, ding...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mmmthmtskier

Here's a scenario(my usual mounting-by-a-shop experience): I go into your shop with a mount only, I want no adjustment, no torque test. You will do a torque test anyway as a matter of procedure? You're also saying that other shops do the same? I've been going to the wrong shop...

---

look at the paperwork they give you. unless you're getting mounts done under the table, the bindings get function tested. some shops won't even do a size adjustment or change the DIN setting w/o testing the system first. otherwise, if the binding didn't work right, and you got hurt, they'd be up shit creek if you decided to sue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by H-wood

look at the paperwork they give you. unless you're getting mounts done under the table, the bindings get function tested. some shops won't even do a size adjustment or change the DIN setting w/o testing the system first. otherwise, if the binding didn't work right, and you got hurt, they'd be up shit creek if you decided to sue.

---

Finding this thread late, in reference to discussion on another thread. It was semi-common to not test work done on customers' equipment (not gear I sold)....like mount and adjust, but we had to make it clear on the paperwork that the customer was signing off on NOT having the system checked, or that they wanted it adjusted to a spec NOT recommended by the shop/manufacturer. So you want your 916s mounted, set to DIN 14, and not torque tested, I can do that, but you're going to sign a form saying you're specially requesting this exact thing and releasing the shop and binding manufacturer of subsequent liability. That wasn't an uncommon setup.
There are also times when you work on your own gear after hours...and...um, you know, your buddy gives you a pair of skis and some bindings and you mount them up....and then you decide, maybe I don't want these after all and you give them back to your buddy the next day and he says thanks and then he forgets to take his beer with him. You know, that kind of thing.

I wouldn't expect a torque test to be standard procedure anywhere unless clearly agreed upon, but I too am in Canuckistan. I would be deeply suspicious of any shop that set non-matching din values without explaining why, especially if your binding has a default value of 5 from the factory, and I can think of a few that do.

I don't know how much the torque equipment has since the early 90's.

Used to be you could make it read almost whatever you wanted by how you twisted it at the toes.

Heels where more on though....

Torque tests are the biggest fraud in the ski tech industry.
But in this litigious society, they are legally required (in the US) and therefore totally necessary.
Do I torque test my own stuff? No. Never.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs

Torque tests are the biggest fraud in the ski tech industry.
But in this litigious society, they are legally required (in the US) and therefore totally necessary.
Do I torque test my own stuff? No. Never.

---

For sure understand where you are coming from here, I used to kinda think the same way but then I realized its actually very useful, espically if you get it done at a shop that is trustworthy and good that won't manipulate results.

Not gonna lie, at my shop we test everything, and really I highly recommend it I do not think that it is a fraud at all. I've skied on some stuff that wasn't tested that was set to the proper DIN's or I thought it was, and kept popping out and almost broke something as a result a couple times. Same thing happened to my cousin, except his ski actually sent it off a cliff and I spent 45min looking for the thing. Luckily he didn't send the cliff himself or else he would have been screwed. But, also all this has to do with making sure the bindings themselves are not worn down and old and need replacing. Then for sure they won't be releasing properly.

I've always wondered about this a little considering I mount and set up my own bindings. I generally am taking on faith that the DIN and forward pressure indicators are correct (besides fks forward pressure, don't pay attention to the white tab).

They've all been generally pretty new and with new-good shape boots, and for the most part I've had no problems with bindings set to proper din for me (always 9 or 10). I am pretty meticulous about setting up afd height, toe wings, forward pressure, and usually never have problems.

A few times I have had issues with STH2 bindings, where I set the forward pressure at home, triple check, screw is flush. Then I'll be skiing and pop out a few times where I shouldn't be (often in cases where my heel is yanked upwards). Check forward pressure later and it appears to have backed out some and not be flush. Screw in a few clicks and good to go no more issues.

I now put them about 1 click in from flush on the forward pressure and haven't had many problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mntlion

I'm in canukistain: we don't test unless the person asks to have the bindings tested ;)

---

I been asking around and it doesnt sound like any of the shops in town test bindings or even own a binding test tool

Welcome to Canada Eh?

Stoner tech probably saw a squirrel halfway through testing your skis and tested the same ski twice. Take it back to the shop and have them tested again at no charge.