What to do when you are caught - practical advice

This article, which will be published in The Avalanche Review, is authored by Karl Birkeland, Perry Bartelt, and Theo Meiners, but it derived largely from the practical experience of Theo Meiners in dealing with slides in AK.

Please read and think about this article -- he offers some amazing and intense thoughts about what to do depending on the area of the slide you are in. One of Theo's main points that he made when presenting this orally is that while people are taught to swim, they are not taught:
1) at what point to give up and swim;
2) what stroke to use;
3) what direction to swim.

His article is a reaction to a publication by Dale Atkins that suggested that protecting the airway is more important than even fighting (based on Dale's experience with recoveries). Theo's experience in surviving slides and personally assisting on many recoveries gave him unique insight into this matter.

Hearig Theo speak on this topic made me think in ways I have not before. While the best strategy is to avoid slides, this knowledge may help us if we do ever get caught.

Note that the playing field is D2/3/4, R2/3/4 slides without secondary exposure.

Among other things, Theo considers both a helmet (you can't fight if you take a head-shot) and an AvaLung (if you gag, you panic and that affects your strategy for survival) essential in big avy terrain.

Nice, thanks UAN.

Great post! Thanks.

Great article.

Did you get that from Theo? I am about to send TAR 26/3 (The Avalanche Review) to the printers with that article and the graphic that goes with it. Nice teaser!

Glad to see that folks are talking about this!

salsa


oh I see- Karl already posted it on avalanche.org...I was wondering how that got out so early.

The current administration simply denies that it did anything wrong.

Can't we do that?

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Originally Posted by upallnight

His article is a reaction to a publication by Dale Atkins that suggested that protecting the airway is more important than even fighting (based on Dale's experience with recoveries).

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First off, this is total untrue about what Dale has said.... And please remember I am also a friend of Theo.

What Dale has been saying and I totally agree with is the AFTER you have lost the fight and gone UNDER the snow surface of the flowing avalanche, you should then go for the airpocket stratagy.

Dale NEVER said, that you shouldn't attempt to fight and stay on the surface of the the avalanche. In fact he wants people to try and get off the avalanche to the sides, or try and grab on to something stationay (tree, rock, etc...). Obviously, it is better to end up on the surface of an avalanche, then buried. D'oh!!!!!!!!

But,.... If you go UNDER the snow surface, it is better to get your hands and arms up to your face to form an airpocket as soon as you can.

In the past "We" (avalanche educators) used to teach, "fight for your life, once your under the snow and feel the avalanche starting to slow down try and get your hands up to your face, and also stick a hand/arm/leg/foot out to the surface."

Dale's idea is to go for the airpocket stratagy sooner then waiting for the avalanche to "slow down." Not one of the 9 avalanche victims I have been there for digging out (Dale has been at many more accidents then I have), had a hand up even near their face.

I really believe in what Dale has come up with. I beleive so much that the airpocket stratagy is what I'm teaching in my avalanche safety courses.

Halsted Morris

^^^^^
I haven't read the article above, yet...

What is the suggested way of creating that air pocket with hands/arms?

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Originally Posted by Hacksaw

Dale NEVER said, that you shouldn't attempt to fight and stay on the surface of the the avalanche. In fact he wants people to try and get off the avalanche to the sides, or try and grab on to something stationay (tree, rock, etc...). Obviously, it is better to end up on the surface of an avalanche, then buried. D'oh!!!!!!!!

But,.... If you go UNDER the snow surface, it is better to get your hands and arms up to your face to form an airpocket as soon as you can.

In the past "We" (avalanche educators) used to teach, "fight for your life, once your under the snow and feel the avalanche starting to slow down try and get your hands up to your face, and also stick a hand/arm/leg/foot out to the surface."

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Intelligent people can disagree. I think what is amazing about Theo's article is that he describes the stages of a slide, and he also highlights that just because you go under at certain points does not mean that you should give up and create the airpocket.

In fact, he posits that there are several times in which one can go under and resurface -- with techniques for doing so.

I cannot speak for Theo, of course, but the airpocket strategy seems to be most (only) valid at the very end.

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Originally Posted by Hacksaw

Dale's idea is to go for the airpocket stratagy sooner then waiting for the avalanche to "slow down." Not one of the 9 avalanche victims I have been there for digging out (Dale has been at many more accidents then I have), had a hand up even near their face.

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Yes, but you're talking about body recoveries, not rescues, right? How many of those were in a swimming position, face down, and swimming downhill toward the toe of the slide?

How many people that swam survived? That latter number is harder to get at.

Also, beyond just "swimming/fighting" (which you say is what you teach), how often do you teach specific tactics for what to do and how to fight or swim at each stage? It's *that* that I find particularly interesting/noteworthy.

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Originally Posted by Hacksaw

I really believe in what Dale has come up with. I beleive so much that the airpocket stratagy is what I'm teaching in my avalanche safety courses.

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I'm sure you don't teach is this way, but unfortunately some folks take away from it (perhaps not from your classes, but from others) that they should create the airpocket right away.

Anyway, regardless of what one believes, I think the point-counterpoint between Dale's v. Theo, et. al's article is that it makes us all think about our beliefs and perhaps learn something new (or reaffirm our belief system).

Thx,could be useful one day.

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Originally Posted by spthomson

What is the suggested way of creating that air pocket with hands/arms?

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It has been suggested to me that I reach around with both arms and grab for my pack straps if they are still on or to reach for my collar and do the same.


Grab a hold, pretend youre about to get hit by a car or something, and tuck your head down into that pocket.

at least thats what ive been taught (from Halsted)

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Originally Posted by pechelman

It has been suggested to me that I reach around with both arms and grab for my pack straps if they are still on or to reach for my collar and do the same.


Grab a hold, pretend youre about to get hit by a car or something, and tuck your head down into that pocket.

at least thats what ive been taught (from Halsted)

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In my actual experience (buried 2 years ago), this worked surprisingly well to keep an air pocket. What a lot of people don't realize is that snow is going to be shoved into your mouth and throat long before the end of the slide, so it is vital to keep your face/mouth covered almost the entire time. Also, as you come to a stop, keep your mouth covered with one are (a la the method above) and reach for what you think is the surface with the other arm. When I was buried, I got one hand half way out of the snow. This allowed the search to change from a 5-10 minute beacon search to a 'grab that glove and see if it is him' search.

This is just from my experience, not from years of experience like the article's author.

Very interesting read... good to think about... very good points. I'd imagine that it would be hard to keep your wits about you and understand your situation and position fast enough (seconds) to take some of the appropriate actions recommended without a lot of practice... and this doesn't seem like something you can practice? I would think that an avalung in place would be critical to make such observe-react actions possible.

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Originally Posted by upallnight

Yes, but you're talking about body recoveries, not rescues, right? How many of those were in a swimming position, face down, and swimming downhill toward the toe of the slide?

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We already knew that face down burials have a lower survival percentages.

If someone gets rolled under by the toe, are they still going to be pointing the same direction? Is swimming with the flow (downhill) really a common reaction?

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How many people that swam survived? That latter number is harder to get at.

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This is something that Dale discusses in his paper. IIRC (I heard his talk months ago) he discusses the fact that many survivors felt they couldn't swim.

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I'm sure you don't teach is this way, but unfortunately some folks take away from it (perhaps not from your classes, but from others) that they should create the airpocket right away.

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See, this statement makes little sense, because you can't create an airpocket in a moving avalanche and expect it to stay there... it's moving. I think the idea was to protect the airway from getting clogged with snow during the slide and then when the avalanche is stopping, create an airspace. At least that's what I've seen taught and that's what most books seem to advocate.

And this is why I asked Dale if he would change his recommendation at all for a user with an avalung in place. I don't remember exactly what his response was but it was something along the lines of an avalung would change the rules of the game.

The article is a bit one-dimensional in its approach. Things get more complicated when there is terrain, drops, trees, etc to deal with.

When I got caught in a slide two weeks ago the trees directly below me in the fall line were of more immediate concern than anything else. I swam to avoid smacking into the pines.

Yes, the snow sets up quick. Waiting until your are stationary to create an airpocket may be well too late.

Everyone should read the whole article, but in particular, this sketch is priceless

http://tetongravity.com/forums/attac...4&d=1200763856

If Theo or anyone with ownership is offended, let me know and I can take it down. But, I figured not everyone will read the article, but lots of folks will read this one page guide.

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

Everyone should read the whole article[...]

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Agreed, but even better, everyone interested in such material should also subscribe:
http://www.americanavalancheassociat...lications.html
http://www.americanavalancheassociat...subscribe.html
Yes, it's $20, as opposed to free (for TGR forums, etc.), but it's worth the $20 to learn that much more about avy safety on a regular basis in a professional publication.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

Agreed, but even better, everyone interested in such material should also subscribe:
http://www.americanavalancheassociat...lications.html
http://www.americanavalancheassociat...subscribe.html
Yes, it's $20, as opposed to free (for TGR forums, etc.), but it's worth the $20 to learn that much more about avy safety on a regular basis in a professional publication.

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You read my mind. After printing and reading that article, I found myself wondering how much a subscription cost.

I have read a half dozen articles from the journal over the last few years, and for $5 and issue, I will now subscribe.
Thanks for the link.

Thanks guys. I try to make it as relevant as possible- a merging of theory and practice, to steal a useful phrase from issw.

Hooray new TAR (The Avalanche Review) subscribers!

And once again- do send on any cool avy porn, stories, photos etc that you think our readership might like.

salsa

BUmpageAFGAF

bump for a very good read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Summit

See, this statement makes little sense, because you can't create an airpocket in a moving avalanche and expect it to stay there... it's moving. I think the idea was to protect the airway from getting clogged with snow during the slide and then when the avalanche is stopping, create an airspace. At least that's what I've seen taught and that's what most books seem to advocate.

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Yea, I'm still trying to get my thoughts around this as well, especially when you're trying to dodge trees, your bindings don't release, you're going down, breathing heavy from skiing the line already, you're aspirating snow. Create an air pocket?

Maybe if you're lucky, you're buried shallow and you can get a hand to the surface pronto before the snow sets up.

I think Theo's approach is good for people who are comfortable and experienced dealing with extreme backcountry events and will keep a cool head under pressure. I'm not so sure how realistic his approach in general is for most backcountry skiers. I think Theo naively assumes the average skier will remain calm when the shit hits the fan. The guy has ice water running through his veins, so it seems natural for him, but I don't think most of the people taking his courses even know what planet he is on when he demonstrates stuff like this you tube video. Theo is coaching people on how to drop a big cornice like him when, in reality, those folks should probably stay far away from that sort of terrain in the 1st place.

Uh... might want to put the blade away before jumping on the cornice? And do you notice it broke behind where he was standing when he was sawing? The whole time I'm watching it I'm thinking, that's gonna go right behind his feet.

FWIW, I think there are merits to both sides of this discussion. In practice, when I've been caught, I am not thinking about anything I read in a book or learned in a course. All I'm doing is fighting instinctively at first to get to the side and when it becomes obvious that didn't work, tried to keep my feet below me and get at least one hand up in front of my face somewhere along the way. I realized after the fact that I did these things automatically without thinking. I don't pretend to have the ability to get all analytical when I'm falling off a mountain in an avalanche. Fortunately I survived three incidents and no complete burials. That's enough for me.

I find the idea that someone actually caught in a slide would know where the edge of it is (and even if they did at first would they know after the first, second, or third time they got flipped/spun?) and be able to 'swim' toward it pretty unrealistic. Wouldn't it be just as likely that they'd be going towards the middle, or deeper into it? Don't know how many people, even if they felt they had fully internalized what to do, would be able to follow most of the instructions on that chart. And it's not really something where you can practice truly simulating what you'd be going through. I'd say get people to know that they'll think first about trying to stay on top, swimming up if under, and forming an air pocket and reaching for the surface at the end. If you could get people to do that during the panic of being caught I think that would be the best you could hope for.

I'm assuming that basically everyone more or less instinctively tries to ski out to the side or a safe zone when it starts, also. You can teach things to do before someone is really caught, but once you're off your skis and going for the ride I think everything changes.

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

Everyone should read the whole article, but in particular, this sketch is priceless

If Theo or anyone with ownership is offended, let me know and I can take it down. But, I figured not everyone will read the article, but lots of folks will read this one page guide.

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That pic has been on tgr before. It's been hanging on my wall for a while.