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postman22
11-08-2005, 09:09 PM
My buddy Brad and I were about to ski this one run a little ob of chair #6 i think it was when we see this one guy screaming and yelling frantically. Brad goes down to check it out and yells back at me that we have a burial. The guy was digging around frantically with his snowboard which gave us the indication that neither of them had transceivers. fortunatley they did, however either this guy was in a daze or he didnt know how to use his equipment. brad took charge as group leader and after wading in 8 foot snow we were able to locate him with a probe after about 10 minutes. he was 8 feet buried according to the probe. as we dug at about 6 feeet we sawa a hand and as soon as that was uncovered it the hand started frantically waving. thank god for we knew the guy was alive. however we tried yelling at him with no avail to stop as to conserve his engery. we got his face uncovered at about 15minutes and he was alirght. crazy sequence. brad and i have done a lot of training but never been involved in an avi. the guy at first was so stoked to be out, then started crying for about 5 minutes then got stoked again and hugged us both real hard and then started crying again for another 5 minutes. he said while he was under he was making amends, wanted to tell his parents that he loved them and he said that when my probe hit his teeth it was the happiest moment of his life.

needless to say after all that we were in an avi runout and it was another 25 minutes of hell of getting out of there safely.

brad and i are happy that we are 1-0 for pulling out victims alive but never in hell want to go through it again.

after we were shook up and just went and relfected in the lodge for about an hour before deciding to make some turns again.

even though we pulled the guy out alive we made a lot of stupid mistakes most likey because it was so early in the season. we learned a lot about the power of the mountains and are truley humbled. we are going to practice a hell of a lot more before we go out again.

-phil

MOHSHSIHd
11-08-2005, 09:12 PM
the guy at first was so stoked to be out, then started crying for about 5 minutes then got stoked again and hugged us both real hard and then started crying again for another 5 minutes. he said while he was under he was making amends, wanted to tell his parents that he loved them and he said that when my probe hit his teeth it was the happiest moment of his life.


damn, that shit gave me chills...


good work gettin him out, glad he is ok...

Foggy_Goggles
11-08-2005, 09:16 PM
Good work. I'm glad people feel comfortable posting there experiences. It's a great learning tool for all of us. Please be safe ya'll.

Sphinx
11-08-2005, 09:19 PM
So did you use your beacons to find him, or was the area small enough for probing alone?

WAY TO GO in doing the right thing without panicking- you probably saved his life.

And thanks for posting your story.

powderfarmer
11-08-2005, 09:20 PM
he said while he was under he was making amends, wanted to tell his parents that he loved them and he said that when my probe hit his teeth it was the happiest moment of his life.



-phil

I can relate. I had a similar thought process while pinned underwater in a kayaking mishap. I thought about death for most of the two and a half minutes I was under. I wanted to make sure my mom knew I was going out in a beautiful place, but I didn't want her to go through the terriable ordeal of losing a son at a young age. Its strange where your mind goes at times like that, and I know that I am not the only one to have similar stories from a near death experiance.

BTW, strong work on the rescue.

truth
11-08-2005, 09:21 PM
Nice work mang...that dude was lucky.

bakers_dozen
11-08-2005, 09:21 PM
man it would be freaking scarey being burried for that long not knowing if they are going to find you. Nice work

Trackhead
11-08-2005, 09:26 PM
WOW! Amazing how someone was looking out for this burial victim. 15 minutes that far down??? VERY LUCKY.

Nice work, you certainly deserve a free season pass for that, or more. Inspiring.

Cirquerider
11-08-2005, 09:29 PM
Very lucky outcome on this. Good thing your guys were in the right spot at the time or we would be reading a different story tomorrow.

marshalolson
11-08-2005, 09:30 PM
cograts on saving a life and thanks for posting your experiance

Summit
11-08-2005, 09:31 PM
lots o dangerous shit. that guys lucky

The AD
11-08-2005, 09:35 PM
All that really matters is the guy's alive tonight. Great job postman!

biggins
11-08-2005, 09:36 PM
Nice work, you certainly deserve a free season pass for that, or more. Inspiring.

Well played fellas, well played.

粉末雪
11-08-2005, 09:41 PM
Awesome work 22 & B-RAD!
Did you have someone you could post as a avie guard during the rescue?

B-RAD
11-08-2005, 09:41 PM
it was a crazy experience, even though i've done the training and read a lot about it, it really hits home when you are searching for a person. Good work phil, it sent me for a loop and i know it did for you too.

brad

VC
11-08-2005, 09:42 PM
Good work man

LeeLau
11-08-2005, 09:44 PM
Good work boys. You didn't panic, no-one died thanks to you. Nothing like trial under fire

FollowMe
11-08-2005, 09:47 PM
Postman22 for Maggot of the Year! Brad too!

jpcski
11-08-2005, 09:49 PM
Way to keep your head. Nice work!

baseWeldr
11-08-2005, 09:49 PM
wow, intense... lucky guy for your heroic actions

powstash
11-08-2005, 10:03 PM
chilling experience, one I hope never to be faced with.

15 minutes - one lucky sucka.

coastal
11-08-2005, 10:10 PM
nice work guys and thanks for posting.
:cool:

Summit
11-08-2005, 10:16 PM
I read that again.

You two saved his life.

Strong work!

lph
11-08-2005, 10:18 PM
Damn, you guys saved a life. Great job. I hope you never have to do it again.

thanks for posting that.

LaramieSkiBum
11-08-2005, 10:20 PM
he was 8 feet buried according to the probe. as we dug at about 6 feeet we sawa a hand and as soon as that was uncovered it the hand started frantically waving.

8 FEET x 3 people = one lucky mother fucker....good reason to own a 300cm guide probe....How long did it take you to dig him out?!?! Must have had a hell of an air pocket - was he wearing a full face helmet or avylung or something? Or did the slide not setup and was heavy chunks with lots of pockets?



even though we pulled the guy out alive we made a lot of stupid mistakes most likey because it was so early in the season.

-phil

care to share some of them if your comfortable? what was the slope aspect and conditions?

Atrain505
11-08-2005, 10:21 PM
Damn...and I was studying for a midterm. Glad I have you two on my team most of the time I'm in the BC. Give me a call. I want to hear more.
Good job.

postman22
11-08-2005, 10:30 PM
So did you use your beacons to find him, or was the area small enough for probing alone?

WAY TO GO in doing the right thing without panicking- you probably saved his life.

And thanks for posting your story.


spinx. brad took charge and became leader of the group. we immediately had everybdoy turn their beacons to receive.

kind of crazy though the closest signal we got was 2m and thats because he was over 2m buried.

def going to practice more with deep burials

Hugh Jardon
11-08-2005, 10:37 PM
Holy . Nice Job. What kind of beacons did you have and were you well practiced with them? Were you calm and cool or were you freaking out? It seems like you guys were under control. Sorry to bug: but I hear when you hit a person with a probe you know it for sure. Did you know for sure that you'd hit the victim with your probe? Fucking great report and everyone is ok.

postman22
11-08-2005, 10:46 PM
Holy . Nice Job. What kind of beacons did you have and were you well practiced with them? Were you calm and cool or were you freaking out? It seems like you guys were under control. Sorry to bug: but I hear when you hit a person with a probe you know it for sure. Did you know for sure that you'd hit the victim with your probe? Fucking great report and everyone is ok.


yeah i'd never hit a person with a probe either. but you def know for sure when you hit them. it just kind of bounces off. hard to describe but you just know.

i think brad uses some sort of pieps and i use an ortovox m1. doesnt matter though what you use just got to know how to use it. luckiliy we practiced just enough to get this guy out.

so might as well list what we could of done better.

we were in control however,

in the heat of it we forgot to ask the friend of the guy who was buried who was freaking out where the last point he saw him was. as a result we ended up 10m below were we found him because thats were his friend was frantically digging.

while taking out our probes and turning our beacons to recieve we took off our backpacks. when we finally hit the guy with the probe we had to frantically run back to our packs to get our shovels.

while brad was digging the guy out iwth the guy's friends shovel i had to run back to get both our shovels. i had to find brads shovel. since his backpack is different than mine i didn't find the shovel that quickly.

lessons learned.

never take off your backpack
always ask where the last point seen was
know where your friends equipment is incase you need to get it for them

B-RAD
11-08-2005, 10:55 PM
8 FEET x 3 people = one lucky mother fucker....good reason to own a 300cm guide probe....How long did it take you to dig him out?!?! Must have had a hell of an air pocket - was he wearing a full face helmet or avylung or something? Or did the slide not setup and was heavy chunks with lots of pockets?

care to share some of them if your comfortable? what was the slope aspect and conditions?

still a little shakin from the experience, but i can tell some more about, more will defiantly come after i think about it some more.

The victim hucked a cliff that knocked all the powder off and triggered the avi. so not only did he get covered when he landed by all the new snow, but his sluff covered him and the avi covered him! but the lucky thing is that it was only the new snow that slid (granted there was a lot of new snow). the terrain was a ravine, i'm pretty sure it was a stream bed/waterfall area.

I heard the victim say that he had a medium sized air pocket just in front of his mouth. He was about 8 feet down totally covered by new snow. When we got to the seen we think he was covered for about 5 min. By the time we were able to get his mouth free, it took us 10 min. So 15 min total. (time is all guestimation, if you asked me at the time i would say the whole event took 30 sec, and if you asked the victim he would say it took 30 min)

For searching, the victims friend was in no condition to help, so i had him put together his shovel, me an phil did the beacon search. I got my lowest reading and phil started probing and hit the victim (in the teeth, to which he later said "when i felt the probe hit my teeth...it was the best feeling in my life.") From there the digging went pretty fast because the snow wasn't set hard and it was pretty light, except for that it kept sluffing back into the hole.

well thats it for now, i need a tequila

brad

Squirrel99
11-08-2005, 10:58 PM
PM, did this happen going into the Canyon off backside of 6 & 1?

We took a lap into OI Chutes today (once) and the snow was shearing rather easy. Decided against any future laps and to keep it mellow.

Great Job and way to be heads up. With the huge crowd up there today and so much snow, I had a feeling something like this could easily happen.

B-RAD
11-08-2005, 10:58 PM
i use a peips dsp, and love it, have a 320 cm g3 probe and now definantly love it, have a old voile shovel that has a smaller blade and don't really love it

Tyrone Shoelaces
11-08-2005, 11:02 PM
wow.....great job you guys. Powerful read....thanks for posting your story here for the rest of us to learn from.

Art Vandelay
11-08-2005, 11:12 PM
Good work guys! Thanks for sharing.

Crinkle
11-08-2005, 11:34 PM
many have said it, but i am sure it can't be said enough

Well done, way to act and save that guy as fast as you could. Amazing that you guys were in the right place at the right time and were able to help, having the correct tools at your disposal.

Your honest reflections will help a lot of us hear learn for future preparations for skills we hope never to have to use.

Arty50
11-09-2005, 12:20 AM
Nice work, guys. Nice work. Heroes for sure.

mtbakerskier
11-09-2005, 12:31 AM
PM, did this happen going into the Canyon off backside of 6 & 1?

We took a lap into OI Chutes today (once) and the snow was shearing rather easy. Decided against any future laps and to keep it mellow.

Great Job and way to be heads up. With the huge crowd up there today and so much snow, I had a feeling something like this could easily happen.

Did I not post numerous warnings in the last week to stay out of the BC????

While the front country "elbo" was great skiing there was even numerous sings of stuff moving there. There was a lot of idiots in the BC with out any gear let alone a clue, so I am not supprised someone got caught in a slide.

Since you said that ti was off of chair 6. I am guessing it was somewhere over towards blueberry and the ten minute trees.

Please let us know where it actually occured.

hop
11-09-2005, 12:36 AM
That sounds El Sketcho. Glad you guys were there to literally save the day.

I have mixed feelings about missing opening day, and the avy danger was one of the things that made me glad I wasn't there.

subtle plague
11-09-2005, 12:43 AM
nice work guys. :)
btw. what was the avi danger at that day and what kind of slope was it (aspect, degrees..... i don't know baker so "behind chair 6" won't do for me :) , but i would be interested in general info. you do have daily avalanche service over there do you ?)

hop
11-09-2005, 01:16 AM
nice work guys. :)
btw. what was the avi danger at that day and what kind of slope was it (aspect, degrees..... i don't know baker so "behind chair 6" won't do for me :) , but i would be interested in general info. you do have daily avalanche service over there do you ?)

www.nwac.us is our local avy service.

midget
11-09-2005, 01:43 AM
Postman22 for Maggot of the Year! Brad too!

I'm pretty sure these two are going to win that one. Way to go and keep your wits to save this guy's life! You guys definately DO NOT SUCK!:fm:

subtle plague
11-09-2005, 02:23 AM
www.nwac.us is our local avy service.
ah that's what i was looking for.
i was a bit confused because someone posted earlier this season that the avalanche service's funding was endangered.

H-man
11-09-2005, 04:50 AM
Sobering read. Hats off to you two. Thanks for sharing your mistakes also. It is easy to see how these little things happen and then realize what the consequences can be.

Big E
11-09-2005, 06:10 AM
Great work guys. I hope we have no other challengers for Maggots of the Year.

skifishbum
11-09-2005, 06:46 AM
Kudos on your valant rescue. Sounds like the victim was blessed to have an air pocket and competant responders on scene.

Mcwop
11-09-2005, 06:56 AM
:yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

My eyes welled up just reading that. Nice job.

K-Stormchaser
11-09-2005, 07:33 AM
Goosebumps...head to toe.

cmsummit
11-09-2005, 08:24 AM
Nice work, getting that guy out from 8' down. Gives me chills...............

You guys are true heroes.

yentna
11-09-2005, 08:27 AM
That is my worst nightmare - BOTH either being buried with the fear that if my companions fuck up I may die, or having to do a rescue and the fear that if I fuck up, someone may die. Good job guys, you went out prepared both with gear and with knowledge, and made a difference. Awesome.

Tippster
11-09-2005, 08:38 AM
Way to be... that kicks ass. I'm humbled by your actions.

bklyn
11-09-2005, 08:46 AM
Thanks for being there, being prepared, and sharing your experiences.

dropinskiout
11-09-2005, 08:48 AM
Wanted to jump in and say great work guys!

postman22
11-09-2005, 08:51 AM
hey gunderson (mtbakerskier)

trying to look at the baker ski are map online and it sucks so i'll give you my best directions.

from white salmon you take that first chair up. then you make a right to get to those two chairs by raven hot cafe. you take the chair up that doesnt take you to pan dome. i cant read what the hell the number is. when your going up the chair the area you we skied is on your right hand side or skiers left. it says boundary/know what your doing. when we went over there there were arleady several tracks and we were maybe 50 yards away from the resort.

i hope that clarifies things wish i could be of more help but the mount baker online map isnt happening

mtbakerskier
11-09-2005, 09:11 AM
hey gunderson (mtbakerskier)

trying to look at the baker ski are map online and it sucks so i'll give you my best directions.

from white salmon you take that first chair up. then you make a right to get to those two chairs by raven hot cafe. you take the chair up that doesnt take you to pan dome. i cant read what the hell the number is. when your going up the chair the area you we skied is on your right hand side or skiers left. it says boundary/know what your doing. when we went over there there were arleady several tracks and we were maybe 50 yards away from the resort.

i hope that clarifies things wish i could be of more help but the mount baker online map isnt happening

Ok, You where off of chair 5 not chair six. You where in a very popular BC spot called elbo,. My guess is that this must have hapened closer to the ropeline where there is a very defined gully, that is well known for sliding, and has claimed the life of a baker volly patroller several years ago.

The scariest thing about this spot is that I warned probally 50 people in that area yesterday without gear, to stayout of the BC and if they where out again theyd loose there pass. Its amazing how many idiots where out there yesterday.

Props to getting the guy out.

jump
11-09-2005, 09:12 AM
Very nice work, and good job saving his life!

gonzo
11-09-2005, 10:29 AM
scary shit.

alpinepronghorn
11-09-2005, 10:44 AM
Way to go, guys. Scary to be reading the second avi thread already, but glad the outcome here was better, thanks to you.

I'm going beacon practicing...

skier666
11-09-2005, 10:45 AM
After hitting Baker yesterday for basically the first time, I would be scared shitless to wander OB without a spotters/partner, ane BC gear.

We never heard anything about a avi yesterday until we got home and read about it on here. We were up on Elbow (sp?), but skiing a far tracked out section down above where Squirrel hit his tree air (that Mtbakerskier told Girlski to hit)...

Good work guys on the response and for posting the awareness.

alto
11-09-2005, 11:06 AM
Did I not post numerous warnings in the last week to stay out of the BC????

The victim of that slide obviously read your posts but decided to disobey your warnings as a gesture of contempt. I would be pissed too.

hop
11-09-2005, 11:24 AM
The victim of that slide obviously read your posts but decided to disobey your warnings as a gesture of contempt. I would be pissed too.

I think MBS' comment was more directed towards Squirrel for mentioning dropping into Oi at one point.

Squirrel99
11-09-2005, 11:45 AM
I think MBS' comment was more directed towards Squirrel for mentioning dropping into Oi at one point.

As for Oi, Zbo had been touring near the area for the past few days and was confident we could mitigate risk by skiing a short, mellow lower section. We were quite aware of the avalanche danger and were careful to reduce the factors. We skied the top section of OI- and the snow was stable- a little movement, but nothing more than Frontside lower Elbow. Upon reaching the midsection where the snow had changed a bit, we decided to traverse out and avoid the convex section. There were plenty of other sections of OI that we did not consider due to the hazard level.

As for the remainder of the OB areas- we were not convinced on the stabilty and kept our excursions minimized to the center, lower Elbow- away from major hazards and as 666 pointed out- skied a mostly skier compacted section. Just to make a point clear, we were aware of MBS, BakerBoy, NWAC, and other postings of the avalanche danger and snow conditions from the past week- with their information having a large impact on our group decision. Patrol @ top of 8 was another resource we utilized.

postman22
11-09-2005, 11:47 AM
Ok, You where off of chair 5 not chair six. You where in a very popular BC spot called elbo,. My guess is that this must have hapened closer to the ropeline where there is a very defined gully, that is well known for sliding, and has claimed the life of a baker volly patroller several years ago.

The scariest thing about this spot is that I warned probally 50 people in that area yesterday without gear, to stayout of the BC and if they where out again theyd loose there pass. Its amazing how many idiots where out there yesterday.

Props to getting the guy out.

yeah gunderson thats the spot we were about to hike out of it cause we didnt like what we were seeing. we missed getting into elbo. but then we saw that dudde and went down. needless to say after we got the guy out skiing that whole section was just as scary as finding the person. that gully is just nasty

Core Shot
11-09-2005, 11:56 AM
Great story and awesome results.

Makes you think twice about your partner. The dude running around like a chicken with no head when his partner was buried is just absolutely pissing me off.

I would be curious to know his training, if any. Great that they had gear, but I am curious why the dude went ga ga. Training wont guarantee a cool head, but lack of training might have made him confused and scared when he should have been focused and calm.

This is by far the scariest part of the story. You think you know your partner, but until you know how an individual person reacts under stress and adversity, you really have no idea.

Few of us have been tested in an avy. I haven't, but I have been stress tested in other ways and am usually the one to keep a cool and focused head. I just hope my partners do the same.

grrrr
11-09-2005, 12:08 PM
Echo the props for stepping in to save the guy's life.

I can see how people were drawn to hit stuff that was sketch, I saw a lot of foolish behavior on the weekend. People were hanging in runouts watching their buds drop in above them, punching some serious sloughs. Everyone gets so excited about the start of the season they forget their common sense at home.

Me, I just forgot my gloves.:rolleyes2

joshbu
11-09-2005, 12:12 PM
ah that's what i was looking for.
i was a bit confused because someone posted earlier this season that the avalanche service's funding was endangered.

It is. It always is. NWAC took offline a couple weather stations becuase they don't have the $ to keep them running. There's a big fundraising party coming up, and private donations will probably help keep people (or you) alive.

Zeedashbo
11-09-2005, 12:20 PM
good job guys. i'm impressed with your ability to assess the situation and make quick solid decisions. it's very hard to stay clear headed and confident in a fast moving dangerous circumstances. and i'm happy you guys know what little you did wrong and want to improve upon that. anyways, i saw the bro-models sitting at the lodge, and i was waiting for yall to come out, but i missed ya as i was talking to a buddy and looked over the the bros were gone. good to hear everyone was safe.

as for skiing oi, as squirrel said we were aware of conditions and skied properly considering those conditions. one at a time, safe zone to safe zone. spotting each other the whole time. then we made a decision that it was sketchy and decided not to ski it again.

mtbakerskier
11-09-2005, 12:26 PM
The problem with oi, isthat even if you do manage to ski the shot into it safely, your stuck in a very large terrain trap the entire rest of the way back to the point where you re-enter the ski area boundry.

Aftr yesterday, im going to be resharpening my wire clippers.

Zeedashbo
11-09-2005, 12:31 PM
we traversed abover the gully. staying out of the terrain trap until the very end.

edit: isn't the baker patrol supposed to control the people going into the backcountry, or was that soooo two years ago?

mtbakerskier
11-09-2005, 12:40 PM
we traversed abover the gully. staying out of the terrain trap until the very end.

edit: isn't the baker patrol supposed to control the people going into the backcountry, or was that soooo two years ago?

They still do when there not to busy doing other things. The problem was not enough voly's showed up so that had to do the work htat they normally would do, thus leaving the boundries fairly open to gapers going OB.

I even ran into a group of 8 yesterday on elbo, with no gear, and no clue, they where attempting to drop beloow the traverse line not knowing that it cliffs out.

LeeLau
11-09-2005, 12:41 PM
You never know how you'll react in a combat situation till you're in one. I've white-watered rescue people before and have been stuck in life and death in WWater and windsurfing. While I didn't panic I can see how one could lose it.

I've never been involved in any avvy rescue; I'd like to think that myself and my partners would keep their cool too but you never know .... guess I'm just basically repeating what you just said


Great story and awesome results.

Makes you think twice about your partner. The dude running around like a chicken with no head when his partner was buried is just absolutely pissing me off.

I would be curious to know his training, if any. Great that they had gear, but I am curious why the dude went ga ga. Training wont guarantee a cool head, but lack of training might have made him confused and scared when he should have been focused and calm.

This is by far the scariest part of the story. You think you know your partner, but until you know how an individual person reacts under stress and adversity, you really have no idea.

Few of us have been tested in an avy. I haven't, but I have been stress tested in other ways and am usually the one to keep a cool and focused head. I just hope my partners do the same.

grrrr
11-09-2005, 12:52 PM
I'm working this saturday at Baker. Afterwards, we'll be doing some beacon practice if anyone wants to drag themselves out of the tap room.

Zeedashbo
11-09-2005, 01:21 PM
They still do when there not to busy doing other things. The problem was not enough voly's showed up so that had to do the work htat they normally would do, thus leaving the boundries fairly open to gapers going OB.

I even ran into a group of 8 yesterday on elbo, with no gear, and no clue, they where attempting to drop beloow the traverse line not knowing that it cliffs out.


damn, that's terrible. i've never seen baker so crowded, and it sucks that they couldn't get enough trollers.

maybe the group with no gear was going for the early season assault on 'fly on the wall'.

mtbakerskier
11-09-2005, 01:24 PM
damn, that's terrible. i've never seen baker so crowded, and it sucks that they couldn't get enough trollers.

maybe the group with no gear was going for the early season assault on 'fly on the wall'.

I'd pay good money to see that, but they where a bit left of that, where it isnt skiable at all. Proof once again the human gene pool could use a litle chlorine.

Squirrel99
11-09-2005, 01:28 PM
.
I even ran into a group of 8 yesterday on elbo, with no gear, and no clue, they where attempting to drop beloow the traverse line not knowing that it cliffs out.

damn, that's a scary image. :eek:

I remember on a few of the busier considerable/high avy danger days last year, patrol stationed themselves at the gates by Chair 8, Chair 1, and Chair 5- checking for signals from each person entering the gates.

Signage does little to discourage people (re: Canyons, UT) no matter how imposing. But normally I think Baker's patrol presence is the best example of how to control certain access points. Unfortuantely, they didn't have the staff yesterday to deal with the unexpected size of the crowd.

Squirrel99
11-09-2005, 01:29 PM
.
I even ran into a group of 8 yesterday on elbo, with no gear, and no clue, they where attempting to drop beloow the traverse line not knowing that it cliffs out.

damn, that's a scary image. :eek:

I remember on a few of the busier considerable/high avy danger days last year, patrol stationed themselves at the gates/popular access points by Chair 8, Chair 1, and Chair 5- checking for signals from each person entering the gates.

Signage does little to discourage people (re: Canyons, UT) no matter how imposing. But normally I think Baker's patrol presence is the best example of how to control certain access points. Unfortuantely, they didn't have the staff yesterday to deal with the unexpected size of the crowd.

B-RAD
11-09-2005, 01:33 PM
I even ran into a group of 8 yesterday on elbo, with no gear, and no clue, they where attempting to drop beloow the traverse line not knowing that it cliffs out.

When we were finally able to get out of the gully we saw some people with out any gear at all. Needless to say, the avi victim told them repeatedly that his beacon just saved his life.

Blurred
11-09-2005, 01:38 PM
This is just an amazing story. You guys not only saved a persons life, but also saved his whole family from their worst fear.


UNBELIEVABLE. You guys are heros for sure.
Someone call the local paper there and get these guys story in it already!


Also,Coreshot brings up a good point about that guys "partner".

HyRUPz
11-09-2005, 01:48 PM
HEROES ... AWESOME!

Unfortunately and fortunately, practice makes perfect.

Hats off.

killclimbz
11-09-2005, 03:17 PM
Nicely done guys. That is an absolutely amazing story. 8ft down? That is one lucky guy.

ak_powder_monkey
11-09-2005, 03:33 PM
thats why we all should practice a lot strong work

alto
11-09-2005, 03:41 PM
maybe the group with no gear was going for the early season assault on 'fly on the wall'.


Can someone please post a picture of this line?

postman22
11-09-2005, 05:14 PM
just curious how does a post get moved?

LeeLau
11-09-2005, 05:30 PM
phil - I think the mod can move a post. This thread got nominated to the Hall-of-Fame - so he moved it

powstash
11-09-2005, 05:53 PM
Proof once again the human gene pool could use a little chlorine.

Indeed stupid people do stupid things. We all act imortal and irrational at times.

Although I don't know you I assume that you are a patroller at Baker and following an incident like this I realize how easy it can be for you to feel frustrated and pissed at the lemmings that venture into the BC without knowledge and caution.

However, it bums me out to see patrollers (once again assuming you are one) take the stance of superiority to other skiers around when an incident like this takes place and to toss comments like yours around. I know your comment is from frustration but I hope it doesn't lead you to mis-judge other skiers who frequent the BC in your neck of the woods.

[/thread hijack]

BakerBoy
11-09-2005, 07:04 PM
Can someone please post a picture of this line?

Uh, it's not really technically a line. It requires several tarzan tree swings over chutes from pillows to pillows. It barely holds coastal snow. McConkey's wet dream.

Anybody who thinks they can stay out of the terrain trap in Oi Valley needs to have their head checked. There was a body buried there for over a year and a half because the top of the first knob broke 13 feet deep, and went clear thru that whole gully, leaving deposits over 30 feet deep in places. That slide killed another up by chair 8.

truth
11-09-2005, 07:28 PM
Although I don't know you I assume that you are a patroller at Baker

However, it bums me out to see patrollers (once again assuming you are one) take the stance of superiority to other skiers around when an incident like this takes place and to toss comments like yours around. I know your comment is from frustration but I hope it doesn't lead you to mis-judge other skiers who frequent the BC in your neck of the woods.

[/thread hijack]

1300 posts and still don't have a clue JONG.

粉末雪
11-09-2005, 10:44 PM
Proof once again the human gene pool could use a litle chlorine.
Practice what you preach.

hop
11-10-2005, 12:49 AM
Indeed stupid people do stupid things. We all act imortal and irrational at times.

Although I don't know you I assume that you are a patroller at Baker and following an incident like this I realize how easy it can be for you to feel frustrated and pissed at the lemmings that venture into the BC without knowledge and caution.

However, it bums me out to see patrollers (once again assuming you are one) take the stance of superiority to other skiers around when an incident like this takes place and to toss comments like yours around. I know your comment is from frustration but I hope it doesn't lead you to mis-judge other skiers who frequent the BC in your neck of the woods.

[/thread hijack]

nope, he's not a patroller.

It's often easy to correctly judge skiers and boarders who frequent the BC in our neck of the woods as idiots because they ignore warning signs posted all over the place (including the back of the passes and tickets, etc), don't carry gear, and cop attitude when you approach them to tell them what they're doing wrong. When I encounter people w/o gear in the BC I make a practice of trying to explain nicely what it is they are doing wrong, what they could do to be safer, and why it's important... and only start pulling passes if they start getting all pissy at me. I probably am coming across as being a self-righteous prick (esp. since I'm NOT a patroller) but hey, if it helps make the area safer then I'm not worried about what they think of me. Call the patrol if you think I'm in the wrong and see what they say.
The hard part is when they have gear with them, because then you don't know if they have skills or just a membership to REI.

Dirk Diggler
11-10-2005, 06:55 AM
So let me get this straight. You guys are NOT patrollers and you pull peoples passes? WTF are you thinking? :cussing:

bklyn
11-10-2005, 07:11 AM
So let me get this straight. You guys are NOT patrollers and you pull peoples passes? WTF are you thinking? :cussing:
They're thinking they might not want to risk their lives digging these fools out later.

Yes - I wholeheartedly agree that a 'just looking at you' test should not warrant a pass pull. But OTOH - who do you think will be saving their asses when people don't show up for work? Who else might be put in danger because someone who didn't know better wanted to go for the 'fresh pow over there'
?

What's your solution?

Dirk Diggler
11-10-2005, 07:21 AM
Tracy,
As someone who spends well over 100 days a year skiing and observing avalanche terrain in the CO backcountry, I am 100% in favor of personal responsibilty. Which means that you stay out of my face and I'll stay out of yours. If I think you are endangering me, I'll go somewhere else. But to be self righteous enough to think its my responsibilty to judge who and who shouldn't be out there is out of the question. Taking a lift ticket without authority is called stealing.

bklyn
11-10-2005, 07:44 AM
I will defer to those who have more backcountry experience in this case, Dirk. If I ever stumble into a dangerous situation on your watch, I would appreciate and welcome a heads up. I won't be asking for your credentials while saying thank you.

hop
11-10-2005, 10:40 AM
Tracy,
As someone who spends well over 100 days a year skiing and observing avalanche terrain in the CO backcountry, I am 100% in favor of personal responsibilty. Which means that you stay out of my face and I'll stay out of yours. If I think you are endangering me, I'll go somewhere else. But to be self righteous enough to think its my responsibilty to judge who and who shouldn't be out there is out of the question. Taking a lift ticket without authority is called stealing.

Yep, I don't want to have to dig them out later (although I will if I have to) and I certainly don't want them to have to dig me out either, esp. since they will be using their hands, skis, snowboard, or goggles to dig with.

First of all, there is a difference between pure BC (no lifts at all) and "sidecountry" where you can easily access stashes beyond the lifts. In the BC, yeah, go personal responsibility, but in "sidecountry" situations I'm not so game.
Second, I find it's pretty hard to just "go somewhere else" when you've hiked or skinned for an hour or whatever to get where you are in the first place. I can't count the number of times my party or another party is doing everything right (safe zones, avoiding sketchy slopes even if it means going farther and working harder to get there) and some morons jump in on top of us w/ no regard for any BC safety rules.

Pulling passes is something I do very rarely and only when it's justified. Once the pass is pulled, I notify patrol and tell them I'm sending some poachers to the office. They take a little test about the ski areas BC policy and if the offenders are nice about it they get their pass back. If they complain about some random guy (me or otherwise) pulling their pass for being OB w/o gear, the ski area will not have any sympathy for them.

I wonder how many more BC deaths it would take for Baker to close their boundaries altogether. They never had any bc policy before the Feb 1999 superslide that killed a few people.

LeeLau
11-10-2005, 10:43 AM
Diggler - i wouldn't pull someones pass myself but Baker is a bit of a special case. Im sure the locals will explain

Dirk Diggler
11-10-2005, 11:21 AM
No need to explain about the baker crew. Its pretty obvious. Tough guys. I still say taking a lift ticket is a good way to get a pole tip through the windpipe, but whatever. I just don't get the attitude.

MBS: "Here is a good deal for you stay away from baker or expect to get the shit kicked out of you. "

MBS: "Somebody should take your friend asside and kick the living shit out of him for his stupidity. I have no pateince for idiots in the backcountry, especially if they show no regard for others. If your friend tried to pull that shit out here, I gaurentee that he would never set foot on the mountain again."

hop
11-10-2005, 11:33 AM
No need to explain about the baker crew. Its pretty obvious. Tough guys. I still say taking a lift ticket is a good way to get a pole tip through the windpipe, but whatever. I just don't get the attitude.

MBS: "Here is a good deal for you stay away from baker or expect to get the shit kicked out of you. "

MBS: "Somebody should take your friend asside and kick the living shit out of him for his stupidity. I have no pateince for idiots in the backcountry, especially if they show no regard for others. If your friend tried to pull that shit out here, I gaurentee that he would never set foot on the mountain again."

Aww, that's just MBS. His breath's worse than his bark, which is worse than his bite. ;)

I'm not after the pole tip through the windpipe, nor am I out to get people. I don't recommend pulling passes for anyone that doesn't know the Howats and the patrollers personally, and I maybe pull 1 or 2 passes a year, tops. Most confrontations end with favorable "oh, sorry, I didn't know, thanks for telling me..." results, which is fine by me.

Squirrel99
11-10-2005, 11:43 AM
No need to explain about the baker crew. Its pretty obvious. Tough guys. I still say taking a lift ticket is a good way to get a pole tip through the windpipe, but whatever. I just don't get the attitude.

MBS: "Here is a good deal for you stay away from baker or expect to get the shit kicked out of you. "

MBS: "Somebody should take your friend asside and kick the living shit out of him for his stupidity. I have no pateince for idiots in the backcountry, especially if they show no regard for others. If your friend tried to pull that shit out here, I gaurentee that he would never set foot on the mountain again."

I've skied many a seasons as a local both in CO, UT, and WA- and as harsh as it sounds- Hop is right on target. Baker is an exception (as Leelau has pointed out). These guys at Baker are not trying to act like dicks or "I'm holier than you" type thing- but the terrain that is so easily accessed at Baker is also extremely dangerous. If more and more people continue to put others in danger than eventually it may get mgmt to revisit their policy of allowing useage of the adjacent BC.

What these guys pretty much are saying is if a bad sitation occurs and those in question blatently ignore any advice given by a knowledgeable local- "I'm taking your ticket and we're going to talk to Patrol. If Patrol wants to give it back to you, that's their decision" But they are only getting the 'violaters' to Patrol for Patrol to then have that important discussion. Patrol randomly stops and audits people in the BC and pulls tix as the policy is enforced for everyone's safety. As harsh as it sounds, these guys are helping to save lives and get those in question to the proper authority. These guys don't want to police this. Like Hop said, it's only in one or two incidences when people don't listen to their advice, that they get Duncan (GM/Owner) or Patrol involved.

from Website- and also listed on all tickets & trail maps/signs:
MT. BAKER SKI AREA BACKCOUNTRY POLICY
If you leave the ski area boundary into the backcountry or re-enter the ski area from the backcountry, you must have all of the following or you will lose your ski area privileges:

1. Avalanche transceiver and demonstrated ability to use it
2. A partner
3. Shovel
4. Knowledge of the terrain and your ability.
5. Avalanche knowledge
6. Knowledge of local avalanche conditions;
• know this winter’s snowpack layers
• know the recent snowfall & type
• know current NW Avalanche Center forecast
• know today’s weather forecast (snowfall, temperature & visibility)
Probes and Handi-com radios are recommended.

VIOLATORS WILL BE EXPELLED FROM THE SKI AREA.

PNWbrit
11-10-2005, 12:10 PM
Pulling passes is something I do very rarely and only when it's justified. Once the pass is pulled, I notify patrol and tell them I'm sending some poachers to the office. They take a little test about the ski areas BC policy and if the offenders are nice about it they get their pass back. If they complain about some random guy (me or otherwise) pulling their pass for being OB w/o gear, the ski area will not have any sympathy for them.

Hop - I'm stunned people actually allowed you to cut their pass off!

I've certainly had the desire to do it myself but it seems like it's making a dangerous situation even worse. Most gapers react badly enough to just the suggestion that they shouldn't be going somewhere or being asked if they're beeping.

hop
11-10-2005, 12:29 PM
Hop - I'm stunned people actually allowed you to cut their pass off!

I've certainly had the desire to do it myself but it seems like it's making a dangerous situation even worse. Most gapers react badly enough to just the suggestion that they shouldn't be going somewhere or being asked if they're beeping.

Yep, sometimes I'm surprised too. But you'd be surprised how a "be informative and nice" approach works.

Once it gets to the pass pulling point I've usually already talked to patrollers (who may or may not be waiting at the bottom). At that point the offenders know just how in the wrong they were.

LeeLau
11-10-2005, 12:51 PM
That's what I meant. I know Baker has an open boundaries policy. So does Crystal I guess. I don't know that I'd personally have the balls to cut someones pass but I'd be so pissed if some idiots jeopardized those open boundaries. OTOH - what can you do? There seems to be an endless supply of idiots

Dirk Diggler
11-10-2005, 01:35 PM
I still don't buy this" baker is the exception" stuff.

Lets use a couple of analogies here:

If I'm driving down the road, hauling ass and swilling on a fifth of Beam, would you pull me over and take away my keys and license? God help you if you did, but more likely you would call and let the proper authorities handle it.

If Tracy in Brooklyn saw a crack head jump off the Brooklyn Bridge would she feel responsible for the body retrieval? No. Would she feel like its her fault that she didn't stop him? I would hope not.

As for idiots that have been warned, I say fuck'em. Its not your worry.

LeeLau
11-10-2005, 01:45 PM
Like i said diggler - I wouldn't do it but I can certainly understand why someone would

Squirrel99
11-10-2005, 02:15 PM
I still don't buy this" baker is the exception" stuff.


Perhaps some of the long time locals could chime in here?

I personally would not try to pull somebody's pass unless I was employed to do so- however I would ensure that an employee was notified promptly and that the group was met by Patrol. It is your responsibility to bring up the discussion with unprepared touring group to offer important insight- and if necessary, report them to Patrol- without knowledge and proper gear- THEY ARE A HAZARD

Baker Patrol monitors channel 9.11 and most people who ride the BC carry radios with them- so they are easy to contact. Baker's boundary policy is in plain view on signage at high traffic exit points on what is required to utilize the BC along with the backs of tickets. Plain and simple. It is your responsiblity as a backcountry skier/boarder to educate and inform if necessary. To prevent accidents, it is imperative in such a high usage area like Baker.

粉末雪
11-10-2005, 02:23 PM
but Baker is a bit of a special case.
No, its not.



Except if you mean that it has a safer snowpack on average than 90% of the rest of the world, then, yea its SPECIAL.

bklyn
11-10-2005, 02:27 PM
If Tracy in Brooklyn saw a crack head jump off the Brooklyn Bridge would she feel responsible for the body retrieval? No. Would she feel like its her fault that she didn't stop him? I would hope not.


Poor analogy. I am not a fellow crackhead or dealer.

If I was a base jumper who launched off the bridge 2-3 times a week...

and then I saw a kid try to copy me with a backpack, fishing line and bedsheets...

I'd have something to say to them - if only for the purely selfish reasoning that they'll get it closed down for people who know what they're doing.

Hey, I respect both sides of the argument so forgive me for not being able to resist playing devil's advocate.

Dirk Diggler
11-10-2005, 02:36 PM
It is your responsiblity as a backcountry skier/boarder to educate and inform if necessary.

Absolute Bullshit.

粉末雪
11-10-2005, 02:41 PM
such a high usage area like Baker.
Huh? . . . .

cj001f
11-10-2005, 02:51 PM
Does the Baker militia clip tickets for fast and out of control skiing in area? Drunk/Stoned Skiing? Jumping on trails?

Education is cool, stealing $30 isn't.

PNWbrit
11-10-2005, 02:55 PM
Does the Baker militia clip tickets for fast and out of control skiing in area? Drunk/Stoned Skiing? Jumping on trails?

Education is cool, stealing $30 isn't.

I thought being stoned at Baker was a requirement?

LeeLau
11-10-2005, 03:04 PM
aye - I have to agree about the education part. I do a lot of trail work and educating people about biking responsibly is tough. Too much and it sounds like lecturing. Cutting a ticket - Im just not so sure it will get a message into really hard heads. I'm sympathetic but I don't think I would do it but I can understand why you'd do it.

Funny chinese character guy - I meant that I've always thought of Baker as a place where ducking ropes and getting into shit is especially easy. Now that I think a little more - most ski areas are like that so I guess i was wrong there.

Dirk Diggler
11-10-2005, 03:29 PM
LL,
I'm all for education 100%, but to say it is my "responsibility" to educate is just wrong. Will I make comments to people or discuss concerns? Sure. But I have no right or authority to tell them to do anything. This is America and last time I checked WA was a part of it. Those people have a right to be there whether I like it or not.

Squirrel99
11-10-2005, 04:06 PM
Absolute Bullshit.

How is that? Do you know where all the hazards are, at any given area, on any given day? So who is ultimately responsible for educating someone who continually puts other people in danger? I'm not saying you should lecture somebody- but at least start a quick conversation to remind them where they are- like... "hey, do you guys have any avy gear?" or "Hey, you know that line cliffs out into a dangerous terrain trap, right?"

I leave any ticket pulling to resort mgmt & patrol. But if somebody is acting recklessly and placing others in danger- then yes, it's your right to tell them. And if they continue to be a concern- then notify Patrol. But I guess in your book, ignorance is bliss. Fuck it, let them continue. It's America. Maybe next time they'll drop in above me without thinking and start a slide.

--------------------------------
As for "It's America" - well, it is and people can do what they want- however---> Rules/Policy at Mt Baker is that without Avy Gear, etc...you are not allowed to access the backcountry. http://www.mtbaker.us see mountain policy section

--------------------------------
I may not agree fully with how some guys try to get their point across- but the crew at Baker is a solid group. These are good people and they do not want to see repeats of what happened at the area in '98-'99. There's some bad history there. Like Hop stated- there are usually only one or two incidents a year where you'd even need to get Patrol involved. Usually a nice, quick conversation is all that is needed to get the other party using their brain. Although not "employed" by Mt Baker, many of these guys are associated with Baker on a sponsorship level so they do have a stake in the operations of the resort and feel a responsibility to at least try and educate people before they do something that not only could endanger themselves but others. I see no harm in this.
----------------------------------
but I don't want to get into a big debate- as it's been done before. This thread has kind of been diverted.

Peace everyone!

Dirk Diggler
11-10-2005, 04:33 PM
I guess I'm looking at this from a broader perspective than just Mt Baker OB. I do not go to ski areas and do my best to get away from everybody in the bc, not just the idiots. Therefore I focus on myself and my partners. I'd suggest that if you feel threatened by other people, then head the opposite direction asap.

What I think is just as ridiculous as idiots in the bc, are the self righteous people who cannot mind their own business and think its their job to be hero and save everybody. People are going to be stupid and they are going to die. Whether its skiing, driving, on the river, etc. You cannot save someone who doesn't want to be saved. I've seen this first hand. When he died was I bummed? Yep. Did I feel like it was my fault? Absolutely not. Had he been warned? Yep, plenty.

PS. Can someone post the WA statute that describes what level of training avy gear, etc is required to bc ski on public land? I'm interested in how you go about determining who is allowed to be there and who is not.

The AD
11-10-2005, 04:36 PM
Except if you mean that it has a safer snowpack on average than 90% of the rest of the world, then, yea its SPECIAL.

I'm no expert, but this strikes me as a particularly ridiculous statement. The coastal snowpack may be more predictable in terms of avalanches, but there's still a lot of snow and it does avalanche often. That doesn't seem real safe to me.

PNWbrit
11-10-2005, 04:55 PM
I'm no expert, but this strikes me as a particularly ridiculous statement. The coastal snowpack may be more predictable in terms of avalanches, but there's still a lot of snow and it does avalanche often. That doesn't seem real safe to me.

Hey it's only what we've come to expect from this clown.

and to steal a line from Dr Strangelove - Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the hall of fame

粉末雪
11-10-2005, 06:42 PM
I'm no expert, but this strikes me as a particularly ridiculous statement. The coastal snowpack may be more predictable in terms of avalanches, but there's still a lot of snow and it does avalanche often. That doesn't seem real safe to me.

Wherever you have mountains and snow, you'll have avalanches. Especially during or after strom cycles. Relatively speaking, maritime snowpacks are generally more predicatable, and less susceptible to lingering, deep instabilities.
But you already knew that.

To characterize the Baker situation as unique because of its maritime snowpack and proximity to a bunch of yayhoos would be specious.

hop
11-10-2005, 06:49 PM
I guess I'm looking at this from a broader perspective than just Mt Baker OB. I do not go to ski areas and do my best to get away from everybody in the bc, not just the idiots. Therefore I focus on myself and my partners. I'd suggest that if you feel threatened by other people, then head the opposite direction asap.

What I think is just as ridiculous as idiots in the bc, are the self righteous people who cannot mind their own business and think its their job to be hero and save everybody. People are going to be stupid and they are going to die. Whether its skiing, driving, on the river, etc. You cannot save someone who doesn't want to be saved. I've seen this first hand. When he died was I bummed? Yep. Did I feel like it was my fault? Absolutely not. Had he been warned? Yep, plenty.

PS. Can someone post the WA statute that describes what level of training avy gear, etc is required to bc ski on public land? I'm interested in how you go about determining who is allowed to be there and who is not.

As I said before, I'm not out there to pull passes, I'm out there to go skiing. I like accessing the BC from the ski area. People that access the BC from the ski area are required to have all their stuff (see the official policy that Squirrel posted) or their lift privileges will be revoked. The mtn. does not want to close the boundaries, but I bet they would if there were too many accidents attributed to accessing the BC. I don't want this to happen, therefore I try to talk to people that might end up putting BC access from the ski area in danger. If I save their life, great. If I save my life, great too.

powstash
11-10-2005, 06:59 PM
from Website- and also listed on all tickets & trail maps/signs:
MT. BAKER SKI AREA BACKCOUNTRY POLICY
If you leave the ski area boundary into the backcountry or re-enter the ski area from the backcountry, you must have all of the following or you will lose your ski area privileges:

1. Avalanche transceiver and demonstrated ability to use it
2. A partner
3. Shovel
4. Knowledge of the terrain and your ability.
5. Avalanche knowledge
6. Knowledge of local avalanche conditions;
• know this winter’s snowpack layers
• know the recent snowfall & type
• know current NW Avalanche Center forecast
• know today’s weather forecast (snowfall, temperature & visibility)
Probes and Handi-com radios are recommended.

VIOLATORS WILL BE EXPELLED FROM THE SKI AREA.

Wish The Canyons would adopt this type of policy.

Hop - thanks for clarifying the whole clipping of the passes thing. (sorry it opened a can of worms). I just assumed that since Grant was talking about clipping passes that he had a side gig as a patroller.

BakerBoy
11-10-2005, 07:22 PM
Wish The Canyons would adopt this type of policy.

Hop - thanks for clarifying the whole clipping of the passes thing. (sorry it opened a can of worms). I just assumed that since Grant was talking about clipping passes that he had a side gig as a patroller.

Access to the Elbow is a very touchy subject between the Howatts and the Forest Service. As its been told to me, technically the terrain is "in-bounds", and must be patrolled, bombed, etc. Thus, they are super liable if anybody dies. The Arm on the other hand is something else -- national park or wilderness area or something like that. They can attempt to restrict access thru their ski area, but they are much less liable for death or injury out there.

Essentially, it's only a matter of time before some retard dies out on the Elbow, Baker gets sued, and has to close the terrain. As a result, the owners and mountain managers have told mbs, hop, myself, and others that it is perfectly okay for us to pull passes out on the Elbow. Most of us never do. Baker is "unique" in that we drink, party, ski, and socialize with the owners and mountain manager outside of the ski world. We have their home numbers, etc...

Dirk Diggler
11-10-2005, 07:29 PM
As I said before, I'm not out there to pull passes, I'm out there to go skiing. I like accessing the BC from the ski area. People that access the BC from the ski area are required to have all their stuff (see the official policy that Squirrel posted) or their lift privileges will be revoked. The mtn. does not want to close the boundaries, but I bet they would if there were too many accidents attributed to accessing the BC. I don't want this to happen, therefore I try to talk to people that might end up putting BC access from the ski area in danger. If I save their life, great. If I save my life, great too.

Good explanation Hop and I understand your point. I still think that clipping peoples passes and busting peoples balls once in the bc to be wrong. If you want to handle it, handle it at the access gates in and out. I'm just not into the in your face " We'd kick your ass and clip your pass " vibe that some of the Baker crew has been conveying in several recent avy discussions. Offering suggestions is one thing but being a jerk is just wrong. And with the skills you guys obviously have, getting away from dangerous users shouldn't be an issue.

粉末雪
11-10-2005, 07:31 PM
As a result, the owners and mountain managers have told mbs, hop, myself, and others that it is perfectly okay for us to pull passes out on the Elbow. Most of us never do. .

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."


I'm headin' to Baker! This should be entertaining.

BakerBoy
11-10-2005, 07:49 PM
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."


I'm headin' to Baker! This should be entertaining.

Now I'm confused. What exactly was stupid about that comment? And if it's in regards to me, well, the kettle calling the pot black or however that saying goes.

Let us know when you get here. mbs will threaten to kick your ass (usually the only ass that gets kicked is his own, by his woahman), and hop and myself will be happy to show you around. Do you even ski?

粉末雪
11-10-2005, 08:34 PM
Do you even ski?

No, I tele.

Could I get deputized too, and ride with the posse to hunt down the bad guys?


Anyways, all kidding aside, thanks for the offer, I'll get in touch when in the area. Maybe I can return the favor. And if mbs is threatening to kick my ass, then I must be doing something right.

hop
11-11-2005, 01:08 PM
Good explanation Hop and I understand your point. I still think that clipping peoples passes and busting peoples balls once in the bc to be wrong. If you want to handle it, handle it at the access gates in and out. I'm just not into the in your face " We'd kick your ass and clip your pass " vibe that some of the Baker crew has been conveying in several recent avy discussions. Offering suggestions is one thing but being a jerk is just wrong. And with the skills you guys obviously have, getting away from dangerous users shouldn't be an issue.

Good point, and one I forgot to mention. I normally only approach people at the access points and have never chased anyone down to confront them, unlike others that don't post here.

lemon boy
11-11-2005, 03:07 PM
In other news, I think it is pretty interesting (tude vibe aside) that such a strong culture of peer enforcement for safety would exist.

tibaher
11-15-2005, 05:44 PM
here's a pic of a slide from 11-05-05 in the Blueberry area, just outside the ropes... poached from turns-all-year.com

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5cf24b3127cce954616a590cb00000016108Qbt2zdsyc8

Agent 00X
11-17-2005, 11:24 AM
In other news, I think it is pretty interesting (tude vibe aside) that such a strong culture of peer enforcement for safety would exist.


Hop et al = Baker Hui.

Outstanding work Postman22 and B-RAD

lemon boy
11-17-2005, 11:53 AM
Hop et al = Baker Hui.



That's a pretty "lavender" version of the Hui.

postman22
02-26-2006, 11:28 PM
this is a pretty personal response i just got. but i figure that these forums especially this post represents a learning experience so that is why i'm going to go ahead and post it. Joe Jefferson was the person we ended up saving. In a hurry to get out of the avalanche path after we had saved him, we forgot to get his personal information which i had regretted. Joe was looking through the NOAA today and found my email address and put two and two together. here is his very personal email he sent to me. i haven't asked him permission yet to post it but again like i said since these thread is a post on what to do/ not to do i figured he wouldnt mind.

Phil, my name is Joe Jefferson. You and Brad saved
> my
> life in November at Mt. Baker.
> I just came across the forum at tetongravity.com and
> realized that was me you were talking about. For a
> long time after my accident I looked on the Westwide
> Avalanche Network at avalanche.org to see if my
> accident had been recorded there and I never saw it
> until tonight when I clicked on the northwest part
> and
> got directed to nwac.us, where I saw the report of
> the
> accident and the link to your account of it in the
> forum. As I read through your account and the
> subsequent pages of the forum including entries from
> your partner that day, Brad, I had tears streaming
> down my face. Thank you for taking the time to
> record
> your account of what you two went through. After
> reading about how you guys ended up there and
> rescuing
> me I realize the full extent of how lucky I was that
> day. Becasue you and Brad had come into that area, I
> think is is called gordy's gulch, I thought you must
> be locals and that I would see you on the mountain
> eventually. I can't say that I would have remembered
> your faces, as shaken as I was, but I remembered
> that
> one of you was wearing a helmet with a face guard.
> So
> I kept an eye out but never saw you. When I saw that
> you guys were not locals who frequented the spot
> where
> I had my accident It really set in how lucky I was
> that you had come there just by chance. I never
> really
> got a clear account of what happend on top of the
> snow
> from my friend Jon. We talked about what we did
> wrong
> and what we learned when we got down to the lodge
> and
> checked in at ski patrol, but we never really talked
> about the details afterwards. I think Jon felt
> terrible about the whole situation. I vaguely knew
> the
> line, and Jon knew it better, so he wanted me to go
> first to keep and eye on me. When I didn't ride out
> to
> our saftey point I think he though he had killed me.
> Anyway it was both of our faults and I never wanted
> to
> blame him or make him explain himself. I think he
> had
> been partially burried too and when we both were so
> happy to get out of it alive that we just left it at
> that.
> I realized too that you guys handled it like pro's.
> It
> was sooo sketchy in that gully. I was so shaken up
> that I could barely ride out. I remember when you
> guys
> told me to go first so you could keep an eye on me,
> I
> went like 10 feet and this big section sluffed. I
> was
> just freaked out and riding out of the gully the
> rest
> of the way was just sketch. Jon and I tried to climb
> out and it was impossible so inspite of hardly being
> able to snowboard we tried really hard to catch back
> up to you so that we wouldn't have to ride it out
> alone.
> My body was so sore for more than a week from trying
> to stand up and push the snow off of me. I couldn't
> budge when I was in there.
>
> In retrospect I though about how crazy it must be to
> be in the situation where you are riding along and
> all
> of a sudden you come accross an accident that you
> know
> nothing about and that the victim has been buried
> more
> than 5 minuets. I honestly asked myself if I would
> have rather been Jon that day and had to go through
> what all three of you guys went through and I am not
> sure that I would have traded spots with him. I am
> so
> happy for YOU that you found me alive and that you
> did
> not have to experience the trauma of pulling a body
> from the snow. I can't tell you how bad I felt for
> what I was going to put everybody through with my
> death.
>
> As far as how you guys handled the situation that
> day
> I don't know what to say; you saved me. Not only did
> you put yourselves at risk comming down in there but
> you were totally prepared, equipment and skill wise.
> On top of that after a successfull rescue when
> neither
> Jon or I were in our right minds, you kept cool and
> got all of us focused on getting out of what was
> still
> a dangerous area. Like everyone eles on the forum
> said: GOOD WORK MAN!
>
> I instruct at Baker and for a long time after that I
> had my beakon on, switched on under my jacket, even
> in
> a lesson with little kids on the bunny hill. Best
> investment I ever made. I took an avi class not long
> after that and got in some good practice on seaching
> and probing. ANY time there is deep snow on the
> moutain I wear my stuff, even if am in bounds all
> day.
> If not to cover myself, to be prepared to help
> somebody eles if need be. I only hope that I would
> handle myself as you and Brad did in that situation.
> I
> know I would.
>
> Well that is a lot, I am also sending you a copy of
> the mail that I wrote that night, that I sent to my
> friends and family.
>
> I couldn't get Brad's email address from the forum
> but
> I am writing these words to the both of you. Could
> you
> please tell me his address or forward this mail to
> him.
>
> I really owe you guys. Damn, what can I say, GOOD
> WORK
> YOU GUYS!
>
> always in your debt,
> Joe Jefferson

MarsB
02-27-2006, 08:49 AM
Thanks for the follow-up! It sounds like he certainly learned some lessons, I am glad to see he contacted you to show his appreciation. Again, kudos to you both for your amazing efforts- he and his partner are very lucky there are guys like you in the BC.

B-RAD
02-27-2006, 03:52 PM
i'm really glad that Joe was finally able to find us and we were able to get an idea of what his experience was like. His words defiantly touched my heart and added a new dimension to the the whole avalanche story.

thanks again for your words joe,
brad

Atrain505
02-27-2006, 06:14 PM
Wow! Everytime I come back to this thread I am amazed and incredibly thankful that my BC partners are incredible individuals.

saraski
02-27-2006, 08:25 PM
Great job Phil and Brad! Joe's email was really moving, those guys were definitely lucky to have people like you run into them and handle the whole situation with great skills and attitude! It was also reassuring to hear that I'm not the only one skiing with my beacon on even when skiing inbounds! Just out of curiosity, did you guys take any avi training courses, or are you pretty much self-trained?!
Sara

postman22
02-28-2006, 05:05 PM
we took an avi course but are still pretty inexperienced as im sure you could tell by my account a couple months ago. luckily we had practiced just enough

puma
09-02-2006, 04:09 PM
Wow, chilling to read. I am buying a beacon prior to the first day this year, and insisting that my other rider mates also have ones. Shovel's, probes, and avalanche classes also...but the beacon is the priority!

Lonnie
12-16-2008, 09:46 AM
Shovel's, probes, and avalanche classes also...but the beacon is the priority!

What good is your beacon if you have no way to get to the burried person?

Just sayin'.

The AD
12-16-2008, 10:23 AM
What good is your beacon if you have no way to get to the burried person?

If you're the one who's buried it's pretty important

...as long as everyone else has probes and shovels!

skibum93
01-04-2009, 04:05 PM
good job

way to save a life

SeatownSlackey
11-08-2010, 04:18 PM
bump for the 5 year anniversary of a still very relevant thread.

Pow_Chaser
10-20-2013, 08:07 AM
awesome job getting him out. I know it is an old post, but it was worthy of a read!